Truth be told, I'm hoping that one day cycling will become the major mode of transportation for me. My vision has deteriorated to the point where my eye Dr. has reservations about my continuing to drive, but none about riding. The generator lightning does appeal to me for not having to keep up with batteries as much. I can't afford a MS right now, let alone a dynohub, so it's all moot at the moment.

We're clearly no longer discussing an actual subject, you're just being stubborn and insistent that I mean something I said I didn't twice so I'm not going to bother about this subject any further.

1. I just finished looking at the Dinotte site before checking back in here. They do have some nice looking lights, but when I can get 2 P7's that have a combined output roughly equivalent to the top of the line Endurance Series for about the same price as the entry level Dinotte, it's a no-brainer in my book.

2. I understand about the city/country difference. The hardest part of my morning drive is through my small town. I tend to do better when there aren't as many light sources distracting me, if that makes any sense. I believe the term is 'light clutter'.

3. Weather permitting (and if I don't have too much to drink tonight), I'll get up and start doing a reverse of my cycle commute with the Coleman to see how it goes. Don't really want to waste the gas, but I haven't ridden in two days, so I'll mark it up as a training ride.

Well to be fair, the P7's claimed lumen output is overinflated compared to the Dinotte's by about 100%, just like the Magicshine. If a Dinotte light claims "200 lumens", you can probably expect it to be equivalent to other lights like a P7 or Magicshine claiming "400 Lumens".

And the P7 has about half the runtime of the Dinotte.

Even so, you're right it's probably still cheaper. And if you're only looking for a light for "emergency use" not regular use, it sounds better. And if you're just starting biking, whether it's likely or not it's always possible you wouldn't stick with it and with the P7 at least you'd have a useful flashlight. :-)

Here's a Magicshine vs P7 thread -
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=636602

Both have their own...quirks. It illustrates my hesitation in recommending anything, though - at the beginning "ItsJustMe" writes about how the P7 he bought was brighter than his Dinotte 200L, about how the runtime wasn't a big deal, about how there was less of a chance of things going wrong with it than the MagicShine...etc, etc, it's fantastic.

Seems like the P7 is a clear winner...'till you get later in the thread and he writes about how it broke "FWIW, I'm now back to undecided. The P7 flashlight lasted about 5 months before wigging out. Now it sputters and changes modes every time I hit a crack in the pavement. I've had the switch apart looking for bad solder joints, and couldn't find one. Sometimes it's not too bad, others it barely runs. "

LOL

Seriously, even if I was somehow emotionally invested in what you get (which I'm not), I wouldn't be offended or anything with either way you go. It's not a straightforward choice. I'm kinda sad I don't have a clearcut answer for you!



Yeah, yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about with unlit bike trails vs city lighting! I've heard several terms for it, but whatever you call it it's a weird quirk of lighting - with inconsistent city lighting, you need a brighter light than out on an unlit trail.

I could suggest a light I've used that's almost totally overcome this, but it's...expensive. Let's just say that!

Actually, my favorite economical combination of lights was my bike with Lumotec Cyo on the front (dynamo light), and Dinotte 200L on the helmet (yes, I'm sure there's plenty of other equivalent lights that would work as well).

I'd be curious to hear back what you think.

Other options include going out halfway and coming back (give you an idea of how it will go), or if it's ok to leave your car/truck in the lot and you can find a night you definitely won't need to drive, driving in, biking home, and biking back.

Good luck!

P.S. One other question - would the P7 take AA nimh batteries or the CR...something that's lith-ion? Be aware that regular ni-mh batteries have a fairly steep rate of self-discharge if you don't use them a lot - in other words, if the batteries sits around for a while it loses stored energy just sitting there. You could read about it here or here if you want -
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-32.htm
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=115650

It doesn't matter so much if you use the batteries regularly, but matters more if they'll sit for months at a time. There is an easy solution - buy the "low self-discharge" kind. Sanyo Eneloops are well reviewed, but I personally usually the Rayovac "Hybrid" batteries because they're $10 for a 4 pack at Target (probably Walmart to). Just wanted to mention it.

I'm unsure of what battery chemistries can run on the P7's. Matter of fact, I tried doing a Google search for P7's from U.S. vendors and either got some really pricey amazon offerings or the MS900 from Geoman.

Got some of the Rayovac Hybrids for the oldest- so she wouldn't be getting into her mother's Energizers.

What I'll probably end up doing is just getting a cheap Rominsen that has 280 lumens (which is 2x more than what I already have). Then make the leap to more serious "bike specific" lighting systems.

Problem with the P7 flashlight is that the LED requires 3.7 volt. That pretty much means having to use those 18650 battery. A single 18650 battery is larger in width and length as compare to a AA battery and output 3.7v instead of 1.5 for Alkaline AA or 1.2v nimh. So physically the body of the cell compartment cannot fit any standard AA. You can take a P7 and take it apart and trying to modified it for external battery. That means having to take something like 3x1.2v nimh to get close to the 3.7v, but that mean having to DIY the flashlight and a battery pack. Not worth the trouble when you can take a single 18650 cell and replace it with a freshly charge cell. Price wise, the cost of two 18650 cell and a charger is pretty cheap at $8 for 2 18650 and $8 for the charger. Those 18650 are smaller than 3x1.2v nimh and they are made for the heavy current draw from the P7 led. The other option is to use 14650 battery which are smaller with the correct voltage but runtime will be very short.

I notice that Amazon sell some flashlight as P7 that runs on AA. Check the lumen claim rating. They are listed in the 200 lumen range. The led on these are not the same as the P7 from DX. The price you pay for those are fairly high, you are better off getting a AA flashligt from Shiningbeam.

Good old Wally World brain washing :). I used to think that Wally world has the best bang for the buck, until I started reading the info here dealing with flashlight.

Your wife need to see the fact. Here is the closest Wally World flashlight that I can find close to the Shiningbeam flashlight.

If she compare closely, you get more lumen and pay less for the Romisen.

Actually, the Coleman Max that I have now is a better light, in terms of output, than the one you linked to. However, the Shining Beam offering is the exact model that I've been looking at.

The Sanyo Enaloops avoid or reduce this discharge issue.

(This issue is one reason that being able to use non-rechargeables is a nice option.)

I think lights are like any other type of bike gear, there's what you want, what you need, and what you end up with. I just finished an all night ride in totally dark rural country back roads.

I felt good about having a backup light, a head lamp and three tail lights. I've collected more lighting stuff than I need because I tried out several types of sub $50 lights.

If money really is the issue, a $20 head band light, used with some of the better high power flashlights is all you need. (battery and charger extra)

You can get a high quality Romulson, Fenix or Quark flashlight for $30-60, and a sub $20 head band light, a charger and lots of batteries all for well under $100 bucks.

I know you also said that it would be in addition to a higher powered main light, but I've tried using a headlamp as a bike light, and it...it didn't work. Those things just barely put out enough light for walking...once you get going fast enough to not tip over, saying you're outrunning it was a bit of an understatement.

Weather-proofness?
 

Riding home in the rain today got me to pondering to what degrees are the different lighting options water/weather proof? I put my little (and as y'all are aware- only) flashlight on the bars, after taking the precaution on putting it into a ziplock baggie.

I may be able to shed some light on your decision. I have moderately bad night vision. Probably much better than yours, from the sounds of it, but much worse than almost everyone around me. Bad enough that car high-beams don't cut if for me and I've got 400W of rally-style lights on my car so I can drive at night without being tense about the fact that I can't see. We just started riding at night due to the heat and the fact that she doesn't get off work until a time that will see us riding after dark most of the year. We bought two lights:

A Romisen RC-N3 II R4

and

A Fenix LD20+ Premium R4

We paid about $30 for the Romisen and about $60 for the Fenix. I can honestly say I can see why the Fenix costs more. First of all, for me, they would both be adequate "emergency" or backup lights. Riding sufficiently slowly (say 10mph), I can pick my way through any path with either of them. They're not bright enough for me to say "Oh, man, I can see perfectly well and there's no stress at all!" but they're bright enough that I would definitely make it home safely. However, the Romisen on High is only as bright as the Fenix on High but the Fenix has this mode called Turbo. Turbo is considerably brighter. With the Fenix on Turbo, I can ride at full pace uphill and on the flat. Downhill, the Fenix still isn't bright enough for me to go full speed. Additionally, the Fenix is easier to switch between modes, you can feel it's better put together, and, comparing High to High, MUCH better on batteries than the Romisen. The Fenix has also been proved to be quite waterproof. The beam from both lights is quite nice and totally useful for riding paths and the like.

So I guess the summary is that, with my moderately bad night vision, the Romisen would get my home safely but I'd be conscious of the fact I can't see as well as I want.. The Fenix would also get me home safely and would allow me to go faster, and I'd feel more comfortable relying on it, but I'd still be wishing for more light. But for the long term, I'm looking for something even brighter so I can ride full-speed in all conditions without feeling nervous about the lack of light.

Interesting. The Fenix does have a reputation for being efficient (ie, good run times). The Fenix also has a strobe mode (which is a nice option).

IIRC, when I first joined BF back in '08, Fenix (forget the exact model) was the light of choice around here. Then along came the P7s and then to the MS.

Hmm, I wonder how powerful Mag-lites can get? That is one company that has a reputation for making virtually indestructible products.

P7's can be brighter but they require more voltage/power, which means they really need less usual batteries to get the advantage from the P7 emitter. I think people have become more accepting of using less usual battery types. One reason prefer AA flashlights is that they already have the rechargeable AA batteries (which they can also use for other purposes).

The advantage of the 2xAA flashlights is reasonable output for a common battery type along with a small size and a reasonable cost. If you want more light or better runtimes, you have to give up some of the other stuff. The 2xAA flashlights can also be used off of the bike.

If you intend to ride at night frequently, the AA flashlight approach might not make too much sense.

The $100 Magicshine doesn't cost that much more than the $60 Fenix. And, ignoring reliability issues, provides more light with better runtimes.

Part of your problem is that you are trying to optimize a small amount of money (eg, about $50-100). It's hard to say whether that's a good use of your time. It's easier to say that it isn't likely to be a good use of other people's time. That is, people here might not be too interested in spending a lot of effort to save you a couple of bucks.

Other manufacturers have passed them by (I think).

^Valid stuff, there.

Stopped by at my favorite LBS today and met a new wrench/sales guy there. He's an all-weather commuter and we started talking about gear, lighting, and what-not. He said they could build a generator hub into the wheel for about $300. The shop does layaway. The shop owner is also cool with a longer period to pay-off.

fyi, last year I bought a solid and reliable (though a bit on the heavy side) Salsa Delgado Cross wheel that my local bike shop ordered through their distributor (qbp I think) for $150 with one of the latest Shimano dynamo hubs. I know if I wanted a lighter weight wheel, like an Open Pro or something, that would cost more around $300.

Which Twofish mount?
 

Still haven't pulled the trigger on the Rominsen yet, as my commute changed since wife got a job- which lasted all of four days :(. Anyway, I perused Twofish's site, and am unsure of which of their mounts I should be looking to buy. I've read that the 'lockblock' will work just fine, but they also have a 'lockblock flashlight holder'.

And since I'm kinda hijacking my own thread, I'll ask a couple more questions about the Twofish products.

1. How hard is it to adjust the angle of the light?
2. Once the light is adjusted right, if the light is removed from the bike and then re-installed (battery replacement), will I have to reset the positioning all over again?
3. Once set, does it stay put? Had a bike specific light way back in the day- thing was supposed to mount with the light head above the bars, but would not stay in place. Ended up letting it hang under the bars.

1) really easy in pitch, impossible in yaw
2) Yes, each time you strap it in, you have to reposition it, but it's so easy to do that this doesn't matter
3) IF you put the light in the lockblock right at the light's center of gravity, it'll stay put over all but the biggest bumps. Again, if it does slip, you just pull it back where it belongs. Also, if it's slipping one way persistently over time, you have the light in the wrong place.

Pitch=up/down and yaw=left/right?

And as they are so easy to dis/mount, then I should probably just remove them when using the bus racks.

And one more question- lockblock is basically velcro strapping, right? Any idea on the life span?

I pull the light out any time I'm not physically on the bike to avoid it getting lost or stolen. I tend to leave the mount on the bike no matter what. So long as I remember to fasten the velcro strap for the light-side before getting on the freeway, it works out fine. I have no idea about longevity as ours are pretty new.

You got the directions right.

Yeah, I was hoping to just leave the mounts on the bike, but throw my flashlight(s) in my backpack when the light is not needed.

Here you go.

This is another reasonable company. It has good prices on the two-fish products. This is what I got for my 2xAA flashlights (it's a three pack).
http://www.4sevens.com/product_info....roducts_id=274

Easy. I find I can nudge the strapped-on light while on the bike.

If you remove the blocks from the handle bar, you'd have to readjust. This doesn't seem that big of a deal. If you remove the flashlight, you'd be better off. You might want to mark the flashlight body so it's easy to put it back in the same fore/aft position.

If you hit a hard bump, the light can move. Just nudge it back.

Adjusting pitch is easy. No go on yaw (you don't need yaw so much if your handle bar has a straight section to mount the light to.

Easy to take on and off.

Dunno. I haven't heard of any complaints.

Note that people use old innertubes to strap their lights to handle bars.

Why do you care? Try it either way and see which one you prefer.

This thread is all to funny. I'm out there all Saturday night riding with an old Dinottee and Fenix LD20 mounted with strips of inner tubes. The LD20 worked perfectly, and I got to point it at cars, and on 8 separate occasions - I get them to knock down their high beams from acceptable distances.

I rode 185 miles, 115 of those miles after dark. I continued to switch the LD20 back and forth from turbo as needs presented themselves. I changed out batteries, both time before turbo mode failed. For people who are actually riding all-night - you quickly discover that a high quality 120 lumen beam is enough for most pavements and conditions.

I'm not saying don't get crazy - just that unless you are single tracking along the edge of the Grand Canyon or descending Mount Elbert on the steep side, you don't fffing need 500 lumen. (but I've got an MS on order anyway)