Brake lights & turn indicators - impossible to find
11-08-10, 10:47 AM
#26
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I have the cheap one you first linked to. It works ok, but I really only use the turn signals/taillight at dusk (usually the latest I'm out) and rarely use anything other than the horn (my wife bought it for me, so I leave it on there though I've since disconnected the brake light). I wonder if you could use the switches somehow but your own lights/power source or if that would burn out the cheap wires.
11-08-10, 10:57 AM
#27
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Your from New York. The rudest city on the planet. I know. I lived there. No those jack wagons won't give a whip but people in other places do. I go 20 to 30 mph on my bike regularly. At night, I need to see and be seen for safety. They need to know my intentions so they can act accordingly and not get in my way. My city does not have bike lanes and we have to by law share the street with cars. They KNOW this and accept it. Yes, people will care and do. The notion that they do not is utter silliness.
I'm not disagreeing though, NYC sucks.
11-08-10, 11:24 AM
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I have the cheap one you first linked to. It works ok, but I really only use the turn signals/taillight at dusk (usually the latest I'm out) and rarely use anything other than the horn (my wife bought it for me, so I leave it on there though I've since disconnected the brake light). I wonder if you could use the switches somehow but your own lights/power source or if that would burn out the cheap wires.
You can:
- use an LED-compatible motorcycle flasher for the turn signals
- use reed relays for the brakes (there are some brake levers with these built in available from ebike kit distributors)
- use a 3S LiPo battery for a nominal 12V, high energy density power source (you would also need appropriate charging equip!!!)
- put everything but the switches and lights in a little plastic project box.
I used 3s, 5Ah LiPos for a while. They would last for many weeks on a charge even with regular use. With a higher voltage source (i.e. a bike with an e-assist battery) a DC-DC converter off the main power battery is even more convenient...
11-08-10, 03:27 PM
#29
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11-08-10, 03:32 PM
#30
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
My point has nothing to do with extra visibility or better signaling than hand signals can do.
I have a partial point about making them wide enough so drivers who are far away can tell what they are. You'd need a central red taillight plus outboard amber lights.
My real objection to turn signals on bikes, though, is because of the speed difference between bikes and cars, and that if you're doing things truly safely, you won't need to rely on signals.
One of my earlier posts from another thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post7311859
I think that most of us are missing the point.
(pre-PS: I'm going to assume a utopian society where people actually USE their turn signals
)
Where turn signals really earn their keep is when a vehicle is about to change lanes (which, in effect, includes turning off the roadway; but I'll stick with lane changes for the moment). Giving the signal before changing lanes notifies drivers nearby, including the one sitting in the blind spot. They can either make sure that there's room or honk to warn the first driver that they can't move.
One big difference between bicycles and cars/trucks/motorcycles/buses/scooters is the speed differential. You're just not going to have a motor vehicle nearby for more than a few seconds (unless you're in a traffic jam, in which case you'll probably be moving faster than everyone else anyway). There's little use, then, in lighting up a turn signal.
Making a right turn on a bike (on right-hand drive streets, that is) doesn't affect surrounding traffic very much; giving a hand signal is as much of a courtesy as anything else, probably appreciated more by cross traffic waiting at the intersection than by the people behind you.
Making a left turn across the street shouldn't affect traffic very much, either. If you're crossing over safely, you're using a large enough gap in traffic that you won't be forcing people to jam their brakes (and, most likely, causing a rear-end collision somewhere behind them... which is in another thread). So, then, there's nobody near & to the rear that needs to see a signal.
I figure the safest way to ride on the street is to ride as if nobody can see you -- don't depend on their attentiveness for your safety. I still think that good headlights & taillights are necessary, and a brake light is a good idea (and easy to implement with a B&M DIWA generator setup). But, I think that turn signals just aren't necessary.
IMO.
(pre-PS: I'm going to assume a utopian society where people actually USE their turn signals
)Where turn signals really earn their keep is when a vehicle is about to change lanes (which, in effect, includes turning off the roadway; but I'll stick with lane changes for the moment). Giving the signal before changing lanes notifies drivers nearby, including the one sitting in the blind spot. They can either make sure that there's room or honk to warn the first driver that they can't move.
One big difference between bicycles and cars/trucks/motorcycles/buses/scooters is the speed differential. You're just not going to have a motor vehicle nearby for more than a few seconds (unless you're in a traffic jam, in which case you'll probably be moving faster than everyone else anyway). There's little use, then, in lighting up a turn signal.
Making a right turn on a bike (on right-hand drive streets, that is) doesn't affect surrounding traffic very much; giving a hand signal is as much of a courtesy as anything else, probably appreciated more by cross traffic waiting at the intersection than by the people behind you.
Making a left turn across the street shouldn't affect traffic very much, either. If you're crossing over safely, you're using a large enough gap in traffic that you won't be forcing people to jam their brakes (and, most likely, causing a rear-end collision somewhere behind them... which is in another thread). So, then, there's nobody near & to the rear that needs to see a signal.
I figure the safest way to ride on the street is to ride as if nobody can see you -- don't depend on their attentiveness for your safety. I still think that good headlights & taillights are necessary, and a brake light is a good idea (and easy to implement with a B&M DIWA generator setup). But, I think that turn signals just aren't necessary.
IMO.
11-08-10, 03:39 PM
#31
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
Thinking about the speed differential part --
This makes it a very narrow market indeed.
Motor traffic rarely trundles along at 12-15 mph. They're either stopped, crawling in first gear at 5 mph, or hustling at 25 mph or faster. If you're going to be fast enough to need to be signaling with lights, you're saying that you can cruise for a while -- on city streets, with starts and stops -- at 25-30 mph or more.
If traffic is jammed, you can pass everyone else without going too fast yourself. You don't need to signal then. If they're all going faster than you, you can try signaling, but they're going to be bearing down on you pretty quickly -- and you'd better hope that they see you, AND hope that they don't cause another wreck while trying to avoid you.
Turn signals, then, and IMO, are only useful when you're going the same speed as motor traffic when they're cruising, and that range starts at 20 mph. Think of how many cyclists you know who can do that, and then think of how many more you know who can't ride that fast.
This makes it a very narrow market indeed.
Motor traffic rarely trundles along at 12-15 mph. They're either stopped, crawling in first gear at 5 mph, or hustling at 25 mph or faster. If you're going to be fast enough to need to be signaling with lights, you're saying that you can cruise for a while -- on city streets, with starts and stops -- at 25-30 mph or more.
If traffic is jammed, you can pass everyone else without going too fast yourself. You don't need to signal then. If they're all going faster than you, you can try signaling, but they're going to be bearing down on you pretty quickly -- and you'd better hope that they see you, AND hope that they don't cause another wreck while trying to avoid you.
Turn signals, then, and IMO, are only useful when you're going the same speed as motor traffic when they're cruising, and that range starts at 20 mph. Think of how many cyclists you know who can do that, and then think of how many more you know who can't ride that fast.
11-08-10, 04:15 PM
#33
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
11-08-10, 04:18 PM
#34
Senior Member
Bicycle turn signals are most definitely produced. Can't speak of the quality, but they could be the start of a DIY project.
https://www.google.com/search?client=...12f931f5c7aed6
https://www.google.com/search?client=...12f931f5c7aed6
11-08-10, 04:55 PM
#35
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Bicycle turn signals are most definitely produced. Can't speak of the quality, but they could be the start of a DIY project.
https://www.google.com/search?client=...12f931f5c7aed6
https://www.google.com/search?client=...12f931f5c7aed6
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Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro
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11-08-10, 06:11 PM
#36
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Some good points, BarracksSi. There is a tendancy to make this a black and white issue though when it is rather more shades of grey when all variables are duly considered.
The frustration for those who want or need such devices, is that the commercial bicycle signals invariably perform poorly in one or more areas - reliability, durability, brightness and/or a lack of separation of indicators, for example.
The frustration for those who want or need such devices, is that the commercial bicycle signals invariably perform poorly in one or more areas - reliability, durability, brightness and/or a lack of separation of indicators, for example.
11-08-10, 06:25 PM
#37
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
Some good points, BarracksSi. There is a tendancy to make this a black and white issue though when it is rather more shades of grey when all variables are duly considered.
The frustration for those who want or need such devices, is that the commercial bicycle signals invariably perform poorly in one or more areas - reliability, durability, brightness and/or a lack of separation of indicators, for example.
The frustration for those who want or need such devices, is that the commercial bicycle signals invariably perform poorly in one or more areas - reliability, durability, brightness and/or a lack of separation of indicators, for example.
11-08-10, 07:00 PM
#38
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11-08-10, 07:53 PM
#39
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
11-08-10, 08:21 PM
#40
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Another option may be this-
https://www.night-gear.com/Detail.bok...Apparel&no=735
I was thinking of getting a pair for my pre-dawn commute
https://www.night-gear.com/Detail.bok...Apparel&no=735
I was thinking of getting a pair for my pre-dawn commute
11-09-10, 09:43 AM
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those look awesome.
11-09-10, 02:16 PM
#42
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I'm rather sure motorists would understand such a device, however I prefer to use what battery power I have for a very good tail light. If I wish to make a sharp turn at night, I just slow down a bit and make sure I'm clear.
11-09-10, 05:17 PM
#43
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I know you said you mostly jsut wanted to buy something but if you can work up the courage this is an excellent "How To" on making turn signals. Here is a picture:
11-09-10, 05:17 PM
#44
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That's not me in the picture obviously, it's from the tutorial. I recently just ordered all the parts and will build one myself. I'll let you know how it goes.
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