Originally Posted by DadBikes11 (Post 15453198)

I have been intensely researching this topic for a while now, with intent to go buy a really good, daylight-visible set of lights. I would not consider myself an experienced rider by any means but have gotten involved in my local bike club where I learned the following story from a very experienced ride leader. This rider has many, many years of experience and unfortunately had first-hand experience with what I am about to share. A year before I joined, the local club president was killed in by a truck that overtook her from behind. I have posted the story link below but it was on a shady section of curved road and she was swerving around a large dead snake. This was during bright day-light hours (although she was in a tree-shaded section of the road). The driver of the truck did not see her until it was too late and her swerve maneuver put her in the path of the truck. No charges were filed against the driver. The driver was not drunk and later said that he did not see her in the shade of the trees. The experienced ride leader that I spoke with told me that the club had up until then taught riders the standard lessons: to wear bright clothing, be predictable, use a mirror, etc. I was told that after this accident, many in the club went out en masse and bought Dinotte's. It was obvious to everyone that had she been using bright tail lights, the driver would have likely seen her and the accident may have been avoided. I got this story after riding behind her and inquiring about her insensibly bright lights.

So, in my humble opinion, I am right there with RayfromTX all the way. Most of my future riding will be on these same roads, and I can tell you that so far, I have been buzzed a bit too close, too many times by inattentive drivers in the bright daylight. Apparently, by local club see also feels this way.

Lastly, I have a question for specifically for RayfromTX. Why did you decide on the Design Shine as opposed to the Dinotte's? I am also very interested in the DesignShine, but their web site says that they are sold out for 2013. My quandary now is whether to risk it for the upcoming season waiting for a Design Shine, or spring for a pair of Dinotte's that are available now and a bit cheaper? Any advice would be appreciated. Interestingly enough, the DesignShine lights are actually made right here in my city in Huntsville, AL. I do not know the inventor, but have wondered if he came to same conclusion that my local club has, that daytime lights are exceptionally useful for riding in our area.

Thanks to all for the help.

Link to story:
http://blog.al.com/breaking/2010/05/...in_truck-.html

Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do (Post 15476277)

I know I already commented about this but got thinking about the subject again and decided my previous comment was made too quickly. I reread the story link and then realized that perhaps the cyclist was not at fault after all ( as I had previous thought ). The story clearly indicated that the lady cyclist in question was not riding near the group at the time of the accident. That said I can't help but wonder how it was that the authorities concluded that the lady swerved four feet into the road ( in front of the approaching truck ) Unless the lady was hearing impaired I just find that hard to believe ( snake or no snake in the road ) I really have to wonder if there were any other witnesses to the accident other than the driver of the truck that hit her.

Just last year a cyclist in my area completely blew through a stop sign on a rural road and got T-boned by an on-coming school bus. Miraculously the man lived. Sadly people who ride bikes do make mistakes or just fall asleep at the wheel for some reason. I'm still trying to understand how that happens. Bad enough when someone hits you and it ends up being entirely "THEIR Fault". If it's your own fault how can you explain that to others?

Originally Posted by rekmeyata (Post 15477119)

Certainly if you swerve 4 feet out into a road without checking for traffic you take a huge risk of having something happen. I use to ride down the mountains of So Calif at speeds of over 45 and rattle snakes would be out sunny themselves or dead from a previous car attack, and I would just run over them, I wasn't about to swerve around them, and it wasn't the car issue I was worried about it was the emergency swerve needed to be done to avoid them could have caused me to crash.

It could be that the lady simply was not in the right of mind to be riding after losing her husband about a month earlier, and simply wasn't paying attention to what was coming up and what was around her. Sad.

Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do (Post 15478111)

Yes, sad indeed. Even sadder to think that someone might run you over and the only witness might be the person that killed you. That's some scary crap there.

Sorry if this all took the thread OT a bit but it does relate to being seen as such. Hopefully in the future someone will come up with a small Bluetooth type video monitor that works with your smart phone. The phone app would need to be able to cycle through a set time loop and be able to detect an impact if someone hit you. I know of a lady that has a video set-up on her bike just so she has the ability to I.D. anyone giving her any grief on her commute.

Originally Posted by rekmeyata (Post 15479239)

You know I'm a bit weird, but I'm not going to get a video camera and record while I ride. I ride and not worry about it. The way I see it if someone hits and kills me, what do I care? I'm dead! Serious. When it's my time to go then I'm gone, and catching the guy won't make me feel any better nor my wife. So I'm not going to complicate my riding with such added nonsense. I ride for the enjoyment, and if that enjoyment becomes clouded over with fear of dying then I'll stop riding...which I won't ever stop riding because fear doesn't cast an ugly cloud over me.

You have to do what you have to do, but I'm not buying into all that nonsense. For me, I ride without worrying about the supposedly scary crap out there because scary crap is a state of mind. Doesn't mean I drive or ride without regard to safety, but 99.9% of the time you provide your own safety even if the other guy is at fault by looking ahead and around and keeping your ears open you can prevent most non at fault accidents. Does that mean I can prevent all accidents? of course not, and I said you can prevent most. Auto insurance companies will tell you the same thing, good drivers prevent accidents that are not their fault.

Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do (Post 15480816)

Well, "It's just me" pretty much covered some of the reasons for a camera so I'll try to be brief. If I was afraid someone was going to kill me I wouldn't be riding on the road. Still the possibility exist, that is why we're here talking about daytime running lights and such. I already carry a smart phone ( with video/wireless capabilities ) on every ride. If I get killed on a ride because some doof runs me over It might be a nice thing for my family to know who killed their ( father/brother/uncle/son..etc ). Even if the culprit couldn't be found they would have some closure in knowing that I wasn't some idiot riding in an unsafe manner.

Then there's the usual scenario where someone just threatens to run you over or does something threatening to your person while riding a bike. I can't speak for others but I would get IMMENSE SATISFACTION in having a chance to nail one of these SOB's who do stuff like ( throw lit cigarette butts or garbage at you...run you off the road...etc ) Ha!, and if you really want to screw with them just put the video on Youtube....;)

( *edit: additional thoughts...shouldn't be too hard for someone to manufacture a small self contained digital video unit the size of a typical rear LED light. Done right it could have the circuitry to automatically cut-off if it sensed a high impact or if the user wanted to save a certain segment by pressing a button. It would generally function by just recording a five minute loop. The user would then have the option to save up to five 5 minute loops while on the road. If something like this was available to the public it would make million$. Not only would cyclist love these but people driving cars/motorcycles would be dropping their coin as well. Already some cars have video capabilities so it shouldn't be too long before ALL cars have video as standard equipment. )

Originally Posted by rekmeyata (Post 15482844)

Of course the possibility exists, but so does walking down the street and someone comes up behind you and shoots you, are you going to start wearing a camera 24 hours a day because the possibility exists? There are thousands of possibilities of dying everyday, so what? My wife knows I ride a bike, she also knows I was involved in a risky field of employment before getting laid off that could had killed me on any given day, closure for her wouldn't be that they caught the guy that killed me, closure for her is her faith in God that I'm taken care of. Being a man I don't think that way, if some punk killed my wife and got away with it I would try to find the guy before the law did...that would be my closure. But women are different then men as a rule.

Most cycling accidents are just that...accidents. Even with a camera recording someone killing you with their car, they may get 3 months in jail, a fine, and drivers license suspended for 3 months. Big deal. Like I said, if I'm so worried about someone killing me that I have to get a camera to try to have the guy arrested that did kill me, I wouldn't bother riding a bike anymore.

Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do (Post 15483306)

First, not a big possibility of being killed just walking down the sidewalk. On the road you are surrounded by people driving 2 tons of metal ( not to mention large trucks ) who are at times very distracted. Your comparison is no where near equivalent and statistics will support that. Nowadays if you get charged with vehicular homicide you are likely to get a good number of years in jail. I'm not a lawyer but there are other charges that could be filed against you as well.

We live in the day and age of big brother. Video is everywhere, at intersections, stores, banks, police vehicles, highways, etc...etc.... My cell phone has a video camera on it. It just comes that way. Anyway, regardless of what fines or criminal charges are levied against someone who kills ( or maims ) you, your family would also have the option to file civil charges. That could very well mean a big settlement for your family. If you doubt that, look what happened to O.J. He won in criminal court but lost his a$$ in civil court. Concerning your last statement, like you I'm not worried about someone killing me, I just hope if someone does that they get caught and get their just due. If you don't care about justice, hey whatever. I'm not going to hunt someone down to exact revenge. I'll use the law and let the cards fall where they lie.

Also keep in mind there are worse things than death. Consider what life would be like being a quadriplegic. I'd rather be dead. If someone did that to me and was truly negligent, not only would I want them to answer for what they did but I will also need the money from the civil suit to pay for my medical care. Having some very good incriminating evidence with help of some video could mean big money. In the mean time I ride without video just like most people. I will continue using too many lights to help make myself more visible.

Make no mistake, the day someone makes a nice mini-video recorder ( as I described earlier ) I'll be first in line to get one. In the mean time I have life insurance but that won't help me ( or my family ) if I'm crippled for the rest of my life.

Originally Posted by Burton (Post 15483328)

Have to agree. In most cases the police can't press charges ir get a conviction because of lack of sufficient proof. Surveillance video is changing that. Same for civil cases. It kinda changes the balance of things when there are no other witnesses.

Nothing to do with living in fear - a lot to do with living in a society where social responsibility seems to be rapidly fading.

Originally Posted by rekmeyata (Post 15485135)

This is all about opinion, if you feel safe having a camera when you ride then do so. I just wonder if you wear a helmet?

But I'm of the opinion that have a camera going is just a waste of time and money. Like I said, I could be walking down the street and have someone do something weird, I'm not going to carry a camera where ever I go. If I'm hit and become a quadriplegic a camera won't help me from not becoming one, and most people won't have the insurance or finances to support you in that mess anyways!

And there was a lady in NY who hit and killed a guy while she was on legal prescription and legal to drive while on it but the meds made her woosy (or perhaps lack of sleep?) and she got no jail time. Of course there's the civil end of the world, but unless she's wealthy she won't have to pay much if anything depending on her net worth.

Like I said, I'm the kind of person who just doesn't worry about stuff like that. Maybe it's easier for me because in over 40 years of riding I've only had two accidents involving cars.

Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do (Post 15485451)

Envision the following scenario; You're riding down a quiet secluded road. Some drunk kid comes along and knocks you off the shoulder of the road. You're hurt but not able to move. The mini-vid-camera under your seat caught the reflection of the tag number and stored the incidence. It also detected an accident which set a timer in motion. If the rider doesn't respond in a couple minutes the camera ( via blue-tooth ) sends a prompt to your smart phone activating an App that auto-dials for help and also gives a GPS location. If you have seen those ads on TV for GM products (*OnStar ) you know this technology already exist and is quite doable. Not available to us yet but one day hopefully. Technology can be wonderful when it serves a purpose that just might save lives.

Originally Posted by ItsJustMe (Post 15486317)

What I don't understand is the need of some people to try to tell other people that they don't approve of their choices. Sometimes it's riding one way or the other, sometimes it's that they choose to ride with a camera or not. I'm not sure why people care that much what others are doing.

Originally Posted by rekmeyata (Post 15486204)

Life saving device is fine for some people. Personally, again it's just an opinion, I don't need it, nor do I need On-Star, I've never needed OnStar in over 40 years of driving so I don't see the point of it! And neither did my parents who've been driving longer then I have. I also don't like the fact that OnStar can listen into your conversations in the car without them having to tell you or notify you, and track your whereabouts, AND they can do so even if you don't pay for the subscription. No they can't you say; here's an excerpt from their contract:

"We may record and monitor conversations by you or others from your car with us, with emergency service providers, with the police, or third parties to maintain or improve the quality of OnStar service, for training purposes, or to promote and provide OnStar service. Please note that our OnStar Advisors may also remain on the line if they conference in a third party, such as dealership personnel to assist in completing a service request. These third parties may also record and monitor your conversations. We may also randomly monitor your interactions with OnStar’s automated services such as OnStar Virtual Advisor for quality improvement purposes."

No again? how about ABC news report then: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...n_you_hear_me/

Here's a forum discussion about it: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums.../t-106332.html

Motor Trend, though they tried to be politically correct since they sell ad time for those cars with OnStar, but it is in the wording: http://wot.motortrend.com/onstar-pri...#axzz2Pucu6miZ Of course the video comes from OnStar so what would you expect them to say?

And here is the truth about the services OnStar claims they do: http://onstarsucks.hubpages.com/hub/...bing-Customers

So I'm not a huge fan of OnStar by any means...but that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by rekmeyata (Post 15485135)

This is all about opinion, if you feel safe having a camera when you ride then do so. I just wonder if you wear a helmet?

But I'm of the opinion that have a camera going is just a waste of time and money. Like I said, I could be walking down the street and have someone do something weird, I'm not going to carry a camera where ever I go. If I'm hit and become a quadriplegic a camera won't help me from not becoming one, and most people won't have the insurance or finances to support you in that mess anyways!

And there was a lady in NY who hit and killed a guy while she was on legal prescription and legal to drive while on it but the meds made her woosy (or perhaps lack of sleep?) and she got no jail time. Of course there's the civil end of the world, but unless she's wealthy she won't have to pay much if anything depending on her net worth.

Like I said, I'm the kind of person who just doesn't worry about stuff like that. Maybe it's easier for me because in over 40 years of riding I've only had two accidents involving cars.

Originally Posted by Burton (Post 15487763)

So I'm of the opinion that you should do what you feel is best and give other people that same option - even if its different from yours.

Yeah - I own six different helmets. Its a legal requirement here with an ebike but I wear one with a regular bike too. If you do or don't yourself really doesn't interest me. I made that decision for my own safety - not beceause it is or isn't a legal requirement.

Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do (Post 15492611)

Just out of curiosity tonight I did some web surfing and came across a very interesting video product designed for police. It is pretty much what I was talking about in my previous posts ( minus the bluetooth/phone link ). Seems like it's about 3" x 2" and can clip onto a shirt. I figure something that small you could hook on a bike almost anywhere, front or back. I'm sure there are other similar products but since I've never seen anything like it I thought it was worth posting up about...The product is made by *Watch Guard* and is called "CopVu". I have no idea how much they cost but dang if I wouldn't love to have one of these. Not so much for the bike but for when I'm driving in my car. ( I drive for a living ). Looks like I just might have to send them an e-mail.

Originally Posted by rekmeyata (Post 15496737)

E-bay has them for $169 range.

Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do (Post 15498931)

Unfortunately I've been doing a lot of head-banging lately. :bang:...;)