^^^ I've seen a couple of large LED lights where I live, and I can tell you from that experience I could far more quicker and from a further distance see the lights better then the small pin prick lights most of us use. That was my experience, your's may differ.

Speaking of brighter tail lights, what I can't figure out is why is it that light manufactures can make a 450 lumen head light for $120, but can only make a 90 lumen tail light for $100?

Yeah, I had one of those really large lights, intended for temporary large load use, bought from Lowes. I returned it after some real-world testing. I put it on the side of the road at night and drove past it, then tried with a more conventional, small but bright light (a Dinotte). The large light was nowhere near as noticeable.

Around here anyway, the main purpose of a tail light is to wake drivers up and make sure they know that something is there that requires their attention. Raw lumen output is, IMO, by far the most important for that, followed, I think, by reflector garments - a pair of good reflective ankle straps moving up and down are REALLY attention grabbing - the eyes are drawn to movement. Reflective stuff is useful in all approach-from-behind scenarios except perhaps on very bendy roads.

Because there's less market. Bright white light costs are driven down by demand / quantity of both flashlights (market: everyone) and off-road cyclists in addition to night time road riders. Rear blinkies have a much smaller market, and there's no great perception in the non-commuter market that super-bright, well engineered rear lights are a necessity; most people just have them for dusk riding in residential areas (if they have them at all).

Yes, anything that either reflects or produces light that also is moving ( ie...going around in circles ) is going to draw attention big time. This is why last year I decided to cross over into "geek" territory and start experimenting with wheel lights. The moment you put lights on your wheels you suddenly elevate your visibility 100%. I have a feeling this is the next "big" market that will be drawing people who are into road riding at night.

Used to be there were only a couple choices in wheel lights. Now there are multiple choices and some are very affordable. If you feel wheel lights are too geeky than reflective tape strategically placed either on the wheels or your person can work wonders.

Another item that doesn't get talked about much is reflective piping. You see RP on many bike garments but I'm not seeing it as much as I used to. Because it is basically round RP tends to catch light at all different angles and for it's size reflects surprisingly well. Where I work the company I work for supplies it's employees with winter jackets that have a good bit of RP on them. On occasion I've driven across the company parking lot and seen guys walking across the lot. The RP on their jackets glow like a beacon the moment the headlights turn their direction. I found out the other day that you can buy reflective piping in the sewing/fabric stores. Not cheap but it does look better on a garment than typical reflective tape.

Those Lowes lights are dim that's very true, but they don't match the ones I've seen on bicycles.

Here is a dramatic contrast of a larger LED light vs a small one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJe_suFYfh0
Here's another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipdm7uxN9Co
And you can reviews of that light here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...-side-lighting

I think though that the FoxFire company may be out of business now since I can't get the web site to come up.

But again most cyclists don't want larger lights on the rear and that hasn't fallen on deaf ears, so the small ones get marketed and sold. As far as a small light goes the two best ones for the money under $100 are the Serfas Shield on the mid price range and the Light & Motion Vis180 full size on the higher price range of the $100. http://www.thebicyclerepairshop.com/...ison-test.html

Well, be fair, it's up against a PBSF. That's actually a very weak light by current standards. I currently have 5 lights and the PBSF is by FAR the weakest light. I would only use it if absolutely everything else was dead.

I agree with you on that! Problem is that larger light is not popular at all because it is larger, and because the popularity is so low I can't find any other comparisons anywhere. But if you notice the pin light prick from the PBSF isn't noticeable at all, I don't think doubling the wattage of the PBSF will make a marked improvement, and make no improvement from the side...but unless I can see a demo of that I would be guessing.

I'm thinking market demand (or rather lack of it). Most people buy lights because they HAVE to, not cause they want to. So its usually to meet legal requirements, and ocassionally to see where they're going. In that context, a rear light is likely seen (incorrectly) as being of the LEAST value and so the last priority on most cyclist's lists.

I took a look at the video. Yes it looks pretty bright. Though I can't say for sure that looks to be the worst video of a PBSF I've ever seen. Almost makes me think the batteries are half dead or the lamp is aimed off camber from the camera. ( PBSF's are very directional )

First time I ever saw a PBSF was riding though a small town not far from where I live. That was about 3 years ago. It was early evening and close to sunset. Even though I had a couple cars in front of me I suddenly saw a flashing red light up ahead a ways ( maybe 200-300 ft. ). When I saw it was a cyclist I was intrigued. Whatever that light he was using, I just had to have one.

When "Paul in Maryland" posted the thread on CPF it was June of 2011. The PBSF was a relatively new light using the new half watt led ( for strobe ) with two standard LED's in soft flash. By today's standards it is still a very visible light although it pales in comparison to what is now available.

Paul seemed to think ( back then ) that a rear lamp needed to provide more side lighting. While I can applaud the idea that a rear lamp has some side lighting, there are much better options available now for providing side lighting. A rear lamps primary focus should be to alert approaching traffic that someone ( or something ) is up ahead of them on the side of the road.

The lamp that Paul reviewed is ..well "a monster of a light" if I do say so. It is big, it is heavy. Last of all, it is ugly as hell. No way I would want something like that on my bike. No wonder his daughter refused to use it. :lol: Thankfully if you want a bright red rear lamp or bright amber lamp there are now options that not only are brighter but have a much smaller footprint.

One thing - kind of funny - why aren't we just using "white light head lights on blink?"

Anyway - the issue, or more importantly the "need" being discussed [ i think this is what the thread is about] is mounting "attention getting" devices on a bicycle as a means of avoiding being ignored or unseen.

My own experience suggests a single device will not work effectively across all threats arising from different directions and situations.

Lately I have been playing with my home theater systems. I wish some of these threads [and their respective thread starters] would acknowledge that really safe bicycle lighting involves the usage of a "a bicycle lighting system."

When we compare the concepts of light and sound radiation - we more fully appreciate why multiple devices ares necessary for a cyclist to be safe from "collision threat" is ALL directions.

I trust my comments haven't fallen on deaf ears........

But I digress......

Actually a white flashing front light is very effective, When I ride at night I use a white flashing Serfas Thunderbolt light along with a front bar light and a helmet light. Some people ride at night with a front flashing helmet light and a steady bar light. A flashing light does garner attention, but at night it cannot be used by it self due to the inability of drivers being able to judge distance from the cyclist adequately. I also think that the rear should be the same, a combination of steady and flashing lights, so I use my main and brightest rear tail light on the steady mode, and my helmet tail light and the bar end lights on flash.

I have no scientific studies, nor any personal studies to prove that using a combination steady and flashing lights is any safer then all steady or all flashing. I do it that way because studies in Europe showed that steady is better and they in fact outlawed flashing lights front or rear, but US studies show that flashing is safer and thus they want flashing tail lights but don't mind steady used, and no comment on flashing front lights, so I thought what the heck I'll employ both!

But I do seriously believe that more front and rear lights should be made to have some sort of side illumination ability so drivers approaching toward the side of a cyclist can see them better. That is one problem I have with using my converted Cygolite ExpiliOn 350 as a tail light is due to the fact it has no side illumination which means I have nothing illuminating my side in the rear, the front Phillips SafeRide does employ a illuminating ring of light that does give quite adequate side illumination.

:thumb:

That's a very good point.

I never run flashing lights as a primary light. And using them in the same plane or direction as a good, bright steady light may not offer any advantage. The point of my post was that preposterous amounts of attention are given to a single lighting device (or need) at the expense of the recognition of cyclists over-arching need to garner attention from several directions and various situations.


Like a good home theater speaker system - a bicycle lighting system should surround the cyclist.

I've been told that my rear light is visible from VERY far away by coworkers. This has happened with a variety of lights - my old Dinotte 140R, the MagicShine tail light, the Cygolite Hotshot and the Serfas. Probably would have happened with the Knog Blinder 4V but I replaced it with the Serfas pretty quickly. All of those are very small lights, and with all of them I had people say that they saw me from VERY far away, like half a mile or more, and they weren't looking for me, they just saw the blinking light and it got their attention.

At night I run one steady and one flashing, and I tend towards an unusual or fading flash mode if the light I'm using has one. In the daytime I put whatever the brightest thing I have in the most staccato flash mode I have (IE hard on/off patterns rather than zZzPOP or fade/fade patterns) and don't bother with a steady light unless the conditions are really horrible, like heavy fog or thunderstorms.

I'm assuming that you mean for rear use (?). Actually I've considered doing that for day use in remote areas. Later I decided better to take a blinking white light ( XM-L torch on SOS ) and turn it into a flashing amber light by attaching a yellow lens to it. Took a while to figure out the mounting but it works and should provide something like 500 plus lumen to the rear.

As to what works best ( steady or flashing ) like most people I use both on occasion. On the front I use both and usually at least one flashing on either the back of my helmet or on the seatpost ( or both on flash ). I don't care what the Euro's do. As a person who has spent years driving "I know what draws my attention when I'm behind the wheel and that is Bright Flashing lights".

When it comes to home system I'm still a Neanderthal! I only have stereo system connected to my TV, but it's running through JBL L7's biamped with a MacIntosh MC275 Tube Amp driving the mids and highs and a Harman Kardon PA2400 driving the bass. I figure the room shakes with explosions on movies and that's good enough for me! But I'm more into music then I am movies so for some odd reason surround sound doesn't do anything for me, it's the same reason I bought a low end 50" Panasonic plasma instead of spending $1000's for a TV, just not that much into the video world. And according to one poster here I'm a Neanderthal because I ordered a Lynskey, who buys crappy titanium bikes and straight gauge at that?? The horror of it!! But I don't race so I don't have need for something really great, and I'm older and don't want a stiff riding bike, but that makes me a Neanderthal.

But I digress, but I agree a good lighting system should be seen by drivers 360 degrees around the bike and certain lights help with that effect like the Phillips Saferide, the Soma Road Flares, and the Serfas Shield or the L&M VIS 180 full size, these lights have side illumination that can make you visible 360 degrees.

I have been waiting for a Blue Strobe....

Ordered one.

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/1...-lumen-blue-le

I sort of did that with a Cygolite ExpiliOn 350, I put 3 layers of red tail lens repair tape over the lens and now it's a very bright tail light, the problem with it is there's no side illumination, but from the rear it's very bright.

That's nice - but do you want to turn on that on "all that" just to listen to the news? (just kidding)

I guess this old thread counts about now- its here on the forum somewhere - a bike light "theater system....." http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=voaR0eoTRIY

Just the news, something about some news casters that have a booming voice that's really cool when loud and the pictures hanging on the wall vibrate to certain syllables, really cool, you should try it.

Very impressive set-up but a bit retro. I would think with the newer light systems you could free up some space on your bike and lighten the load. I would suggest that you don't need half the stuff you are ( or were ) using but hey to each their own. Certainly three separate lights on the front is over-kill. I would think one good multi-dimensional ( mix of flood and throw ) lamp on the bars should suffice for seeing what's in front of you. If you need more for a down-hill than a good thrower on the helmet for when needed.

I like what you did to provide side lighting. That said there are smaller/lighter options that can do the same job without taking up so much space ( or more weight ) on the bike. I use one of the newer mini/self-contained flashers mounted on my front fork to give me a bigger frontal footprint. It works rather nicely and compares very well to the strobe function of a DiNotte 200L. The difference is, "No wires , no external batteries", and I can mount it almost anywhere on the bike and aim it in any direction.

Keeping with that thought, I bought a couple of the cheap 'frog type" lights from D/X to supplement the ones I already had. When they arrived I was surprised to see how much better the newer versions are from the previous version. It seems the optic on the new ones are clearer and more focused, twice as bright as the old ones. Once again these can be mounted on a bike in a number of ways and cost about $3 a set ( one red, one white ). Buy a card of coin batteries from D/X and that should get you through a season of commutes.

You're not turning the light red. You're only letting the red out and blocking the other wavelengths, so the net amount of light is much less than what you get when it's white, and the power going into generating those other wavelengths is wasted. A red LED emits only red light. All the power is consumed in generating the red light. (there is waste heat in both cases, of course).

I believe you and I have had this conversation before. I can only tell you what I see, the light is now red, the light is not as bright as it was when it was white, the now red light is brighter then any other tail light either I've owned or I've seen. Don't believe me, I don't care.

I'm surprised that no one mentioned this, but I think that the rear of your helmet is a very bad place to mount Hotshot. It is so directional that it has to be mounted just exactly right or else it is wasted. Even when it's mounted on the bike, you have to tighten the screw on the mount very tightly, because, if it's not tight, the light can shift one or two notches because of vibration and that will render it useless.