njkayaker

I know that. So what? Who is talking about buying lights in Germany anyway? Strange.

PaulRivers

+2

Thanks for posting your review.

It's pretty amazing, isn't it? 10 years ago, dynamo light was - frankly - crap, lol. Even 5 years ago, it was still essentially useless. I mean you could put out enough light to be the same as 1990's $30 AA battery light, but who wants to spend the money on a dynamo just to get that? There's a few niche areas where people found it useful, but it just didn't compare to a decent battery light.

But 3 years ago they came out with the Cyo, and things completely changed. The Cyo covered 90% of my riding better than any battery light had (a combination 1650 lumen's of battery power did a better job of lighting things up, but weren't as good because it used a wide beam and blinded oncoming traffic - so bright and wide it seemed to be a problem even for cars).

The drawback on the Cyo was that it didn't have much side lighting. But the Luxos U, and the more recent (and less expensive) Cyo Premium lights fixed that, to. Dynamo lighting is finally very very good, better than a lot of battery lights (see next comment).

I actually have (though unfortunately weather has not let me test out my Ixon IQ longer than riding it around the block yet, but I own the Cyo before that). The Ixon IQ is the battery powered equivalent of the Cyo Premium.

It's not a matter of dynamo vs battery (as I said the light I have right now is the battery powered version) - it's a matter of beam pattern and shaped beam vs round beam (or semi-shaped beam with Light and Motion lights).

Once you get above a certain lumen output, the amount of light your light is putting out becomes oddly fairly unimportant. I've own a Dinotte 200L, 2 Dinotte 400L's, a Dinotte 600L, a Light and Motion Seca 900, and a Light and Motion Seca 1400 for battery lights.

Of these the worst light was the 600L. It put a ton of light on the road - but only the road immediately in front of your bike. It had no more throw than the 200L. It was just awful. 2 400L's (with a lens kit that let me change the beam somewhat) were better, but again it was weird (though typical of lights) - the difference between both lights on on low vs medium vs both light on on high was about 10% between each jump. I'd go from 400 lumens to 800 lumens, and - it appeared to be about 10% more light. I've seen read that this is typical of how the eye perceives light.

The Seca 900 was my favorite for a while with good throw, but it wasn't quite wide enough. The Seca 1400 went the opposite way - super wide beam pattern, but not as much throw. I seemed to be blinding people on the road with it (unlike the 900, which while not great for bike trails didn't seem to be a problem for cars because of it's narrower beam). The most enjoyable combination for me personally was to ride with the Seca 900 on high and the 1400 on medium. It had enough lumens to really light everything up, and the beam pattern happened to come together perfectly with lots of throw but also lots of side light. Problem was - completely blinding to anyone coming towards me, lol.

What amazed me when I get the Cyo was that the Seca combination from above was the *only* combination that I liked better than the Cyo. It's because the Cyo has a shaped beam - there's not a hotspot affecting your vision, the light closer to you isn't brighter than the light further away. It's really difficult to describe, you eyes just seem to adjust to whatever light is in front of them. Put an even pattern and your eyes seem evenly. Put an irregular pattern with a hotspot, and you see irregularly with a hotspot.

With the Ixon IQ (same beam pattern as the Cyo Premium), it's even better with more side spill light and more throw. I haven't had a chance to do a long night ride with it yet, but so far I believe I will end up thinking it's far **better* than any of my battery light combinations (for road riding of course).

01 CAt Man Do

Paul, thanks for taking the time to write up your posts. Looks like you have a lot of experience with both batteries lamps and dynamos so I like reading what you have to say.

I have to disagree however on what you said about the 600L. I own one as well ( although sits on shelf now ) but when I was using it I found it to be quite awesome. Made a very good bar lamp with decent throw and was brighter than anything available when it first came out. I did try it on the helmet once but was surprised that it created too much glare. After that I only used it on the bars where I was very happy with the overall beam pattern ( for road and mountain biking ). You know it's funny, I've owned so many lights over the years that I almost forget the progression. I'm still trying to remember which ( helmet ) led lamp I went to after I used a 200L on the helmet. Probably a Magicshine 808 ( with XM-L ) but since I also use a drop-in torch on the helmet ( with XM-L ) hard to say now which came first.

Anyway, thanks for the feed back on the Cyo. If I had the bucks for a dynamo setup I'd likely go with a Cyo Premium.

northerntier

I have now compared the Diablo MK 4 and Megadrive w/ the Luxos, and they both put out more light, pretty much like I thought. Again, however, the Luxos puts out plenty, where the old Edelux didn't (at least for me). I went out for an hour ride last night at 10pm and loved it. I even flicked the "brights" on at a car I didn't think was going to stop at an intersection.

PaulRivers

Well - we will have to agree to disagree. :-) I went from a 200L to a 600L, spending a lot more money for the 600L, and tried to like it on 3 or 4 rides but I just couldn't. I didn't have a ton of money at the time, so I was super disappointed that I spent all that money for 600L which wasn't actually letting me ride any faster or better than my 200L. Sure, if I got it for free it would work. Sure it put out more light. But I consistently found that is didn't have any better throw, and it's "more light" lit up road that didn't matter for me, like lighting up the road right in front of my bike.The nice thing about Dinotte lighting is that they did let me return it, and exchange it for a new pair of 400L's (including a lens) kit which did finally give me longer throw.

I dunno man, but I took it on 3 or 4 rides, adjusted it's angle, etc etc etc - I kept hating the 600L. When I exchanged it for 2 400L's with a lens kit, things were much better.

PaulRivers

Hey, thanks for writing back in your thread. While I cannot compare the Luxos U that you have (because I do not own it), I can only compare to the Ixon IQ (same as Cyo Premium) and say that while my battery lights put out more light, they don't put out more useful light. I could get "brighter" light out of my battery lights, but it wouldn't end up having more throw or let me ride any faster...curious if others have had the same experience. Have you tried both side by side?

zacster

Like I said in my own review thread, the Cyo Premium totally outshone my Lezyne Super Drive, to the point where I couldn't tell if the Lezyne was on. When I rode with 1nterceptor a few weeks back, some of his lights could provide additional light over and above mine, but I never saw a beam pattern that I would want instead of my Cyo. I don't know which ones he has, but maybe he'll chime in here. The Cyo just lights up the road better.

I'm still looking to have someone ride my bike with my light so I can see for myself what it looks like.

PaulRivers

Ah, sorry if I mistook part of your post.

northerntier

Whereas my lezyne MegaDrive totally outshines the Luxos, to the point where it mostly can't be seen, though the luxos is a bit wider. This is to be expected, batteries have more juice available.

However, the Luxos is much brighter than the Edelux, and the charger (w/ cache battery) does better than my prior charging solutions, so I'm happy. Not ecstatic, mind you, but pretty darn happy.

01 CAt Man Do

It's all good. ;-) I had two 200L's myself , one with a flood lens and one spot. Both worked very well. I can't help but wonder if you got one of the 600L's with the flood lens. There was talk when DiNotte first released the 600L that they had offered a flood lens ( and a spot lens ). Afterward I think they decided not to go that route because they were afraid too many people might not like the optic that they chose and would want to switch. I tried to order the spot optic ( when I heard about it ) but was told it was no longer offered. Mine is using a 15° optic most likely. Has a good amount of spill and decent throw. When I used it on the bars I had no complaints. Yep, back in those days lamps like the 600L were not cheap.

Hey, just the other day I spotted my first serious Dynamo light user. Had to be a Dynamo because the guy had it mounted down at the bottom of his fork ( which I thought odd ). It was still daylight when I saw it and got a good look although I don't know what brand it was. It was however quite big and quite bright. Very similar to the Cyo in size/shape ( most likely ). I was very impressed at how bright it was and the guy was riding uphill on a sidewalk. Definitely looked as bright as a 600 lumen battery light but judging from the shape of the lamp head it couldn't of been a battery lamp.

zacster

I'm happy with my setup too. I'd be ecstatic if it didn't cost so much, about $260 total including the DIY wheel. That's still the major downside to dynamo lighting. But given that's what a decent battery light would cost a few years ago I guess it isn't so much, and now I have a new wheel too. The old wheel needed replacing anyway.

PaulRivers

Interesting...I think they'd be right about people not liking the optic they chose.

Thanks for sharing your own experience.

jpatkinson

I find this thread interesting and relevant to my current search for a commuter light. I commute exclusively (for now) in the city, so my primary issue is to "be seen," though a chunk of my route(s) are on an unlit, poorly-paved MUP that demands a good "to see" light. My last commuter had a B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo RT senso plus (40 lux), and I was pretty happy with this (fork-mounted), though my hill-climbs were a "flickering" mess, because I wasn't able to generate enough power with my Alfine dynamo to keep the light going solid on 15% or higher grades.

I sold the light with the bike, so my new commuter needs a light (eventually).

Last night I decided to get a NiteRider Lumina 700, after reading a million reviews and deciding the clamp was my favorite among this class of lights.

After mounting it on my bike, experiencing the beam pattern, and also viewing it from the "oncoming" perspective, I can't see why people like this light. It has a perfectly round beam with moderate spread. With the light shining at any reasonable angle, it seems like it would be blinding to oncoming cyclists, drivers, and pedestrians. The blinking mode is head-ache inducing (though possibly life-saving during the daylight hours)! I am willing to consider that I may be missing the point with these lights -- possibly at my own risk.

I am now considering one of the battery-powered B&M options (though only the IXON Core uses lithium-ion and has a questionable mount) -- or biting the bullet and getting another dynamo. Here in SF, I think the B&M shaped beam + lower-power strobe for daytime use is the way to go.

PaulRivers

Hi, thanks for commenting.

In my personal experience as both a driver and biker in Minnesota, where there's a lot of bikers on the road, the best "be seen" light is a white front blinking light that is not overwhelming. Something who's power is like a Planet Bike 1/2 watt or something like that.

For night riding, I do not find high powered front blinking lights to be useful - while likely obnoxiously annoying to oncoming traffic, they're even more annoying to you as the rider to have a bright blinking pattern in front of you all the time.

For a "to see by" light, I recently created a thread on the Ixon IQ (the battery powered version of the Cyo Premium dynamo light), I think it's the best road bike light I've ever used:
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/...e-ranking.html

For better or worse, none of the german made shaped-beam lights have a strobe mode though.

njkayaker

I think such a light is more useful to mountain bikers.

This isn't surprising. Flashing lights aren't useful (really) for seeing.

At night, you want to be seen and to see. In dark areas, seeing is more important (and something that works for seeing will work pretty-well for being seen).

In urban environments at night with lots of lights, you don't really need a light to see but you might want a light to be seen (flashing might be more appropriate then).

Flashing works well during the day.

mstraus

Interesting to read you comments on the Lumina 700. I have some similar impressions on it.

My first bike light was a NR Lumina 700. It is a decent light, but the beam pattern does not make it friendly for pedestrians or oncoming bikers, and the flash mode seems to be full brightness and obnoxious to me reflecting off things in all but the brightest of days. It is OK for mountain biking, but nothing too serious, or commuting in dark/less populated areas if you aim it down enough. I typically use it on low and pointed fairly far down because of this. I would MUCH prefer a more shaped beam. I also find it interesting that my 250 lumen L&M VIS 360+ on my helmet is almost as effective as the 700 lumen NR, I assume L&M spends more effort on optics design.