Gresp15C

We really need a goniophotometer.

dwmckee

For those of you that are not convinced by Cyccocomute's posts and think maybe all of that automotive lighting technology MAY have a valuable purpose on a bike as well, there are many propper bike headlight beams that are both very bright are designed to be easy on the eyes of others and many well under $100. Most cast a great beam for riding that illuminates just the road and do not waste a lot of light in places you do not need. Here are some links for your consideration. All of these here are less expensive than a MagisShine but most are a bit more expensive than the MagicShine clones. Just about all are based on modern reflector and lighting technology. Pretty cool stuff if you like to have teh latest technology!

Busch&Muller battery powered bicycle lights
https://www.amazon.com/Philips-SafeRi.../dp/B00620Z97G
Supernova battery headlights from Peter White Cycles

Athens80

Just my observation ... I was persuaded by posts in this forum to buy the Busch & Müller IXON IQ Premium. I don't find it bright enough to be a primary or solo light in my riding environment at night. It doesn't put enough light on the road in some situations and I'm not confident that it's enough for my visibility in some situations. I do like the spread of light that it provides from left to right. I run it on high and a Lezyne Mega Drive on low and those two together are about right for me. (Well, actually I like light so much that I'll have an old Dinotte on slow flash as well.)

So while the Ixon IQ Premium is $123 at Peter White (not under $100), that light isn't enough for me. Furthermore, the plastic construction -- especially the battery compartment hinge and latch -- does not compare favorably to the Lezyne. It's not exactly cheap, but it doesn't inspire confidence. All else being equal, the B&M looks like it will not last as long. (And while the Ixon IQ is half the price, at $60, it also provides half the light of the Premium.)

And the B&M light does nothing at all for me in the day. Most people don't care about daytime lighting. But I run a headlight during most daytime solo rides and the Lezyne gives me enough flashing lumens forward to add to my visibility to drivers.

Considering that the Lezyne also cost me less than the B&M, if I had to regret getting one, there's no doubt which that'd be.

79pmooney

Cyccommute, I am not going to argue you point by point but your statements do not match my experience at all. I regularly get blinded by the lights Portland cyclists use. I do my best to close my eyes or look away, but there is only so much I can do. As far as night vision goes: my experience is that the more of it I can hang onto , the better my awareness of everything going on around me. It means I aim my light pattern up when I am running full bright so I don't blind myself with the bright pavement. (Yes I know this is more than rude for other cyclists and to some degree cars. But I need that light in places I ride every commute to see the pavement edge when cars come over the rise in front of me. (And car headlights are radically brighter than they were 20 years ago. When I am in that low beam, it is brighter than the old high beams.)

That is setting 1 on my older Serfa. My norm is 3 or flashing (again rude). I wish the makers would dial in the light patterns. And we probably need laws on how bright we can go on road though we all know how popular that would be.

Ben

cyccommute 

When I ride at night the few cyclists I encounter are on the other side of the road from me. That puts their lights, roughly, 30 feet away assuming an 12 foot travel lane and 12 foot parking lane on both sides of the road. If their lights are aimed properly at 2 to 3 car lengths in front of the bike...and that can be a big if but misaiming can happen with any light...the only time I could possibly encounter enough light from their lights to even be dazzling would be if I were making a left hand turn across their path. On a road, there is just little opportunity for their lights to bother a cyclist going in the opposite direction. There's little opportunity for bicycle lights to bother cars going in the opposite direction and they are closer to the bicyclist.

As for "night vision", it is a myth if you are using lights. Pure and physiologically simple.

Finally, as for needing to see the edge of the pavement, why not get a light that is wider or get the diffuser listed somewhere above. A wide flood light has a lower lux (lumens/square meter) because it spreads the light more. This makes them even less "blinding". Or, if you really need to see the edge of the pavement, get a helmet light. You can direct the light where you need it by simply looking.

Personally, I'm not going to ride on the edge of the pavement. That just invites people to try and squeeze past.

dwmckee

That is probably the lowest powered of the bunch. The Philips gets good reviews as well as some of the others. I have not tried the Lezyne. I have gone dyno and use an Edelux II now. The lower to moderate powered conventional lights are okay to use, it is just the really high powered lights that are a problem for others.

dwmckee

I am not sure where cycocomute rides but it sounds pretty 'ideal'. Where I ride is mostly windy 2 lane roads that are a little less than 12 feet wide per lane and no shoulder. We ride about 3 feet from the edge most of the time putting riders about 17 - 18 feet apart at best and motorist eyes (driver side) about 12 feet from an oncoming biker. Our roads have bends and dips too as well as pot holes and dead things laying around that you do not want to ride over. A typical floody head light has a 20 foot spread at 3 car lengths from the source. My headlights swing into the line of oncoming drivers and bikers about every 4 - 5 seconds when riding which is way more often than the "little opportunity' claimed above. If I am riding on roads with parallel parking lanes there are bound to be cars in those parking spots and we ride about 4 feet from the cars to get out of the door swing path, making us even closer to oncoming eyes.

Athens80

The Philips Saferide and Busch & Müller Ixon IQ Premium both claim 80 lux. So the B&M has roughly the same output as the Philips. Others can address how they use that light. The Supernova Airstream 2 claims 205 lumens.

Only the closeout Philips Saferide and the 40 lux Ixon (not-premium) seem to be available in the US for under $100. The Saferide is $75 at Amazon via Bikewagon -- which lists it as the discontinued (i.e., closeout) model. Peter White has the Airstream 2 at $275 and the older Airstream at $150. Those prices recall the previously expressed concern, that these devices are priced at a premium, at least for US consumers. If a cyclist spends that premium, and still gets a light that does not seem as effective as one that cost four or more times less, that's not going to get a lot of word of mouth recommendations. The lights meet the German StVZO § 67 regulation -- but how many US cyclists love regulation enough to not only follow the US rules, but also to pay extra to follow the German ones?

cyccommute 

We've been down this road before and you were dismissive about it. If the beam is 25 feet across, the area of that spread is enough and the beam intensity of the light is low enough that the lux of the lamp at that distance is about equal to the full moon...hardly blinding.

On the other hand, the light has a narrower beam, it has a higher lux but much less spread and, thus, wouldn't throw light in to the other lane except in a few rare, very brief situation. Either way the problem isn't what you make it out to be.

Edit: the luxury is a bit brighter than a full moon. It's closer to romantic lighting. Still hardly "blinding".

PaulRivers

It's interesting that some people legitimately (I mean, other than the retrogrouch crowd who just doesn't like new things) seem to find it to be to dim.

I mean look at the contrast - some people are bike ninjas who ride at night with no light whatsoever. Other people like me find it sufficient. A few other people (like yourself) find it to not be enough.

I really wish they made a high powered shaped beam light. I like the option of having low power modes and AA batteries, but it's dissapointing they don't make something with the same beam pattern (shaped beam, strict cutoff) that ran off a lith-ion battery and put out 3x the amount of light, with a range of adjustable light output so that nearly all light levels, eyeball night vision levels, and riding conditions where covered.

Decade have passed and shown that good plastic lasts longer or as long as good metal bodies. Not as sure specifically about the latch part, though mine has been totally fine so far.

It would be nice to see a US spec'd shaped beam light that also had a flash mode for daytime use. Even in the daytime you don't need *that* much flashing light to be seen.

As I've written before, my personal experience is that even for purely self-centered reasons I find a shaped beam to be easier to see with - lights up further down the road, even beam pattern doesn't have as much of the "riding in a tunnel" affect. I can understand the desire for brighter versions of the lights though.

Athens80

^ I agree with all your points. More lumens + better shaping of the beam towards the road + side visibility = a better light than any I've owned or read about.

I think the main factor with my not being satisfied with the Ixon IQ Premium by itself is the frequently changing light I ride in at night. In a matter of a few seconds or less I'm riding in and out of shadows, unlit spots, etc. I don't see the detail I want there using just the Ixon. If I'm riding in a long stretch of unlit road -- not common -- my eyes adjust and the Ixon's light seems to be enough.

dwmckee

I said nothing about blinding in the post you are quoting. I said your claim that "There's little opportunity for bicycle lights to bother cars going in the opposite direction" is absolutely wrong. What ever headlight you are using will be swinging into the path of oncoming walkers, riders and drivers all of the time. You claim it rarely if ever happens.

Anyway, we are starting to sound like an old married couple here and not making any progress to consensus so I am permanently signing off of this post. You are welcome to have the last word...

cyccommute 

OoIf you aren't claiming that my bicycle lights are "blinding" other road users, what are you claiming? "Bothering" other users in the way that I used it would cover annoying to blinding.

I also take issue with your claim that "whatever headlight you are using will be swinging into the path of oncoming [whatever]". You may have problems keeping your bike going straight down the road but I don't. Most people I know or have seen riding don't wobble down the road having their lights "swing into line of oncoming drivers" every 4 or 5 seconds. Even out of the saddle I don't wobble that much.

wphamilton

As promised I mounted the mirror inside the clone light and checked it out. Sorry about the poor pic. The headlight is shown with the lens removed. The mount is just copper wire twisted around two corners of the mirror and poked through a hole drilled in the side of the reflector, only took a few minutes. It's surprisingly stable for such a makeshift rig.



It does hide the emitter from direct view although you couldn't really tell by looking at it straight on. From the look of the beam outside the bright spot is more uniform with fewer bright and dark areas, and maybe brighter in the beam center. So I think it's worth the trouble.

Gresp15C

Looks great!

Funduro

Just found about this light that senses when a same type light near it to, yup, lower intensity. Now only thing missing is that everyone buys the same make and model.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-cycling-light

rick458

I passed a Jeep today with LED panels on the mirrors that was blinding in the daytime. I would hate to pass that thing at night.

playera

Blinking front lights bother me. You all, no one can determine how close or how far away you are. I can judge a steady light, but I cannot judge the distance for a flashing light, so, as a car driver, I'll probably be risky to you.

Also, too bright lights can be risky.

graemesmith

Come out on one of our Group Rides at night here in Newport, RI. Lights mandatory. The pack looks like a UFO as we sweep around the bends!

unterhausen

I'll give you that, but if you have a line of cars there is an amplifying effect as well

CliffordK

I use a "bright" light. It has 3 lenses, 2 with Fresnel lenses for "Dim", and 1 without for "Bright".

I don't believe it is as bright as a car headlight, but agree with the issues of point source lighting. I'm not convinced that a 1" mirror is big enough to properly diffuse the light, and don't think a 6" mirror is practical.

Old style LEDs had a plastic dome to direct the beam, but new style LEDs may not have the dome, and may depend on a reflector instead. I'm not sure how diffuse the beam would be without the added reflector. However, a true parabolic mirror like a telescope mirror should be difficult to differentiate from a point source.

Better lens designs would help a lot. For traffic, it would be nice if it not only dimmed, but also dipped (directed beam off-road).

I am inclined to use the high beams on the MUTS at times because I can never predict encountering cyclists, joggers, or pedestrians with no lighting. However, the loose mount allow me to direct the light downward whenever I approach a person (with enough light bleeding out so that I can still be seen). I'll do this whether I'm riding with my high or low beam.

The other time I hit the brights are for fast downhill rides. Otherwise, I mostly use the dim mode.

chinkroadrunner

Almost all of my riding is done on narrow 2 lane rural roads, no shoulder, and with no centerline striping. I always use a couple of fingers to partially cover the headlamp to block the light for oncoming vehicles. I understand this would be more difficult on a MUP with heavy use. All riders should encounter their own light setups to understand how distracting these bright lights can be.

JohnJ80

What do the oncoming vehicles do when their beam sweeps you? It's along reach from the steering wheel to the headlights. Besides that, they typically have much more light output than does your bike light.

J.

zacster

I said it earlier in this thread somewhere, oncoming bike headlights are barely noticeable to me when I'm driving. I only notice them when I look for them.

Daniel4

It sounds as if extra high luminosity lights that annoy would be good mounted as tail lights. The high and annoying intensity would force motorists to approach from behind with a lot of care not knowing what they are approaching.