You're not even making any sense. You're saying that the Dinotte 140 is as bright as the Dinotte 400R? Then why do they even sell the 400R?

You're saying that at 3 watts, it's somehow as bright as the 400R at 8 watts or the DS-500 at 10 watts?

This is some kind of miracle of physics. You should do a scientific paper on them if they're making 10 watts worth of light while drawing 3 watts. I think they may be exceeding 100% efficiency, you may have solved the energy crisis.

Where did you get a 140R that has a 10W driver? AFAIK the 140R uses a 3 watt driver.

It's a single driver, yes? AFAIK the largest single drivers you can even buy are 5 watts.

10Wheels.

Busch And Muller Taillights use a fresnel lens to spread out the light from 2 LED's to have a Bright Light in a line and light up the rest of the surface as well .

Here's the Battery model Busch & Müller: TOPLIGHT Line

I use the Dynamo One..

I also use their 4D toplight senso Plus on another bike , the whole great big red Lens lights up with those 4 LEDs





;)

Reflective Tape is cheap and effective, especially for cars approaching from the side.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=435689

Very effective. I recently put it on my mittens, making arrow shapes to serve as turn signals. :lol:

yes, and I already have a ton of it.

It doesn't accomplish what I need for this situation though. What I need: Something that is not just visible, and is not just attention getting. I need something that will pick drivers up by the collar and b*+ch-slap them halfway into the ditch. That seems to be about the only way to actually get their attention.

I've got a DS500. If that seems inadequate, I will go to a police lighting package. I figure if it looks like there might be a cop up ahead the geniuses might get their nose out of their phones for a few seconds until they figure out what's going on.

Just because they don't see you doesn't mean it was the failure of the tail light to do its job. Drivers are not looking for cyclists. That's the chief reason they don't see us.

A back to Back tandem recumbent with the guy facing back with a some serious Fire power would be the ultimate solution

The' Technical' as seen in Somalia applied to bicycles

Muzzle flash Is a real attention getter..

I once had an entire bicycle frame and rims (irregular banding) covered in 3M Scotchlite reflective sheeting - the reflective material which is printed and applied to LEO vehicles and road signs. Although it was basically "maximum reflectiveness", this still was not as efficacious as a few decent taillights for night use. Reflectors (and most taillights) do very little for daytime bicycling safety. For day safety you need proper fluorescent-dyed lime or orange ANSI safety apparel. I used long sleeve Alertshirts for years, like these. The long sleeves increased visibility and provided some UV/sun protection. You can now buy similar apparel at Walmart or Target.

I find hi-viz apparel alone is not enough for daytime safety. I think it's prudent to supplement with a flashing headlight, like a Magicshine, plus a super-bright flashing taillight, of which all I tried seem inadequate until i got the DesignShine 500. You can certainly get by with multiple inexpensive taillights at night away from high-traffic urban areas, but for day use and some night use you really need a lot of flashing red light - either a Dinotte Daytime Red (DDR) or a DS500.

The DS500 costs more but has nearly infinite adjustment of light intensity and duration (flashing). The DDR is perhaps half as bright as the DS500, and for night use you can't run it in flash mode safely because the light intensity can't be turned down on flash. You can operate the DDR in continuous mode at 25, 50 or 100% output, but only in 100% output in one of three flash patterns. So basically you can't flash the DDR at night because it's too darn bright. I suppose you could point it downwards instead of straight back. Between these two taillights, I think most would rather pay another 10-20$ for the DS500 and have the option of about twice the output of the DDR for improved day use with the control capability to turn it down both intensity and duration-wise to suit night time needs.

If you haven't noticed, the latest trend in marketing cars and trucks is to include a small (or not-so-small) central console touch-sensitive computer screen to integrate lots of control functions such as hvac/nav sys/audio sys/cell phone. They're also starting to put HUDs in vehicles, so the motorist has their speed/outdoor temp/nav directions displayed almost directly in their line-of-sight on the windshield. This means before long all motorists will be as highly distracted as LEOs are now with their laptops 2 feet away glaring in their eyes, destroying their night vision and clearly distracted from the primary task of driving safely. I think bicyclists will need brighter, flashier taillights (i.e. Really Serious Taillights) in the future to have any chance of capturing some of the attention of the motorist in their ever-more-distracted state. Reflective tape and $25/50 lumen taillights are not going to do the job on roads with speed limits above 25 mph.

I have the Toplight line Plus and the Line Plus brake. Piss ass weak **** light that's relegated to bikes that don't get ridden often. Great for Western Yur-rup, but really crappy for North America.

All this sounds very much like the dilemma I would face if I decided to commute to work by bike. In my case I would have to ride the last 2.5 miles on an old 4-lane trucking route which has almost no shoulders. Making matters worse the typical speed for any vehicle is about 45-50mph ( even though the speed limit is 40mph ). It is also very hilly. Not the kind of thing you would want to deal with on a warm summer day as you approach the end of a ride.

Since you mentioned needing this for daytime as well I'm going to address the daytime issue mostly. Seeker333 has it right. The brightest ( yellow or orange ) jersey you can find will help the most. I'm really not sure there is a rear bike lamp that is going to make that much of a difference during the day but that depends on the road, speed limit and the typical lines of sight.

The brightest lamps I've seen during the day are on either Police or tow trucks. The thing is, the basic reason those are so visible is because they use many lamps and most of those are mounted high enough to be viewed over most of the vehicles on the road. You can mount a light to your helmet but since your head moves the light will not be centered to the rear at all times. Regardless, it would still be worth a try. Heck, for that matter I'd consider using one of my Gloworm X2's ( pointed to the rear ) and using the beacon mode. Yeah, it's going to be 1500 lumen of flashing white light but on a dangerous road in the daytime...WITH NO SHOULDER AND VEHICLES ZOOMING BY AT 50+mPH....I would consider it. Now if you don't like the idea of a bright white rear light than maybe one of the DiNotte daytime Amber lights ( pointed backward ) or the Daytime Red. Even so, most white flashing lamps are going to be brighter. ( *Please note; the suggestion for a rear pointed white flashing lamp I would only consider in the daytime and only on the most dangerous of roads )

Now I know most people will balk at the idea of a VERY BRIGHT rear pointed white flashing lamp. I understand that but I've seen people do it and well...it works because it's hard to miss. Since you didn't give a lot of detail on the typical speed, line-of-sight and incline of your road in question I don't know if running a 1500 lumen flashing white lamp to the rear would be called for. Personally if I felt that unsafe on a particular road I simply would do what znomit suggested, "I'd not ride it".

No matter what you do to increase your day time visibility when you ride home at night you should be safer than during the day. I say that because if you truly are going to run any of the super bright ( RED ) LED rear lamps AT NIGHT...THEY WILL BE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO SEE.

Actually red lights are more visible in the day light while blue lights are more visible in the night. That is why police cars have both red and blue lights on them. Blue lights are illegal in my state of Florida for anyone except an emergency vehicle. There are some roads that common sense needs to take over and just avoid biking on them. Having said that I have a Designshine 500 tail light on both my bike and my wife's bike along with two Cygolite Hot Shot lights on each bike on the left and right seat stay to try and make a triangle of light. The Designshine 500 tail light pretty much over powers the two Cygolite Hot Shot lights but I already had the Hot Shot lights so I used them on the seat stays. If being seen is your goal then get a Designshine 500 tail light as you will be seen or at least that excuse will taken away from the drivers. I had my wife ride ahead of me and she turned at the end of our block and kept going I could see her bike with the Designshine 500 tail at a good 45 to 50 degree angle through the houses and empty lots between me and her as she rode away and the Designshine 500 was very bright even at that angle.

The phone issue could be fixed over night if our law makers wanted to, all they would have to do is have the phone makers alter the software so that as soon as the phone detects it is moving at more than 5 mph it disables the internet feature and the texting feature. They could leave the phone call ability on or they could even alter that so that only 911 could be dialed and used when moving over 5 mph. That would end all the distracted driving concerning people texting and surfacing the internet and face booking while driving. I am all for that and even limiting ability to use the phone function as well as I see far to many people who as soon as they get in their car they are on the phone talking to someone and as soon as they finish with one person they dial up someone else. How many more people have to die before this problem is dealt with? The answer to that is when some very rich person's loved one is killed or some politicians loved one is killed and then you will see something done. Until then your and my life does not mean anything to our politicians.

I see truck drivers on the phone all the time and it is against federal law for them to drive and use their phone yet they do it all the time.

Fact: smart phones have only been around and starting to get popular since 2007. For over a century we made it just fine without the ability to text, make phone calls and surf the internet while driving, then came the smart phone and all of the sudden we are supposed to believe that we can't make it without having the ability to text, talk on the phone and surf the internet while we drive all over the past 7 years. To that I say bull hockey. It has been proven that texting, talking on the phone and surfing the internet while operating a vehicle is a deadly combination, it is past time to do something about it. Driving is a privilege not a right.

The above comes from someone who wants as little government involvement as possible in our life's but this is one area that needs to be addressed and a simple law saying it is illegal to text or surf the internet just does not work because most people don't even know basic traffic laws in the first place and those that do just break the law anyway. The only solution is to implement the software patch I pointed out above that turns off those features off as soon as speed reaches 5 mph and above. This update could also be sent out as a forced update that the end user could not decline so all phones would be updated. If a user tries to decline the update their phone simply will just keep cycling back to the update rendering their phone unusable until they accept it and it loads onto their phone.

The problem of texting and surfing the internet would be over and they could also end the phone glued to some peoples ear who are also driving distracted due to that phone call every minute they are driving via the same update.

I think you're on to something there... run something like a Magicshine or greater (>600 lumens) on flash mode pointed rearwards during day in high danger areas. I don't think this would probably blind anyone whose eyes are already adjusted to the light of a sunny day and >100 feet away. Maybe a cop would pull you over and tell you to stop.

As far as using a DDR or DS500 at night, these taillights are so bright that you have to turn them way down or you ARE going to blind someone. As I mentioned before, the DDR can't be turned down at all on flash mode, but the DS500 can.

For those who haven't seen this thread in A&S, here's some Real Serious Taillights spotted by Redflea:

http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...l#post17577077

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=435986

As a professional driver, I spend a lot of time on the road, and have observed that no light short of a full emergency vehicle strobe shows up as well in full daylight as a high-viz vest.
Once one can come to terms with the fact that nothing is going to ensure ones safety in all situations and conditions, it seems wisest to cover the most bases without focusing on one solution such as bright lights.
Exercise discretion, be honest about our mental and physical limitations, and take reasonable measures without an expectation of desired results.

I wear a high-viz vest or jacket, and use a mirror. My bikes fender has an British regulation white tip with a large OE solid red lamp/reflector, a larger than average rack mounted Cateye TL-560 flasher with the daylight sensor disabled, and some additional reflective material. From the side my tires have reflective bands, plus both tail lights and the headlight have enhanced side projection. Up front I have a small flasher light, and a B&M headlight with daytime running lights.
Dyno solid lights front and rear, flashing battery lights front and rear, and high-viz, to cover the widest spectrum of conditions with redundancy for reliability and security.

I could have more, or brighter lights, wear more high-viz, and I could work on my skills, but I already do more than many of the cyclists I see, and figure if that's not good enough for prevailing conditions I shouldn't be riding there in the first place.

Absolutely, hi-vis is the first thing to do. I never said to get a bright light and not do anything else. Just because I want a big light, please don't assume that means that I think it will automatically replace all other safety measures, as this is a silly assumption.

I wear a hi-vis vest, I have a lot of reflective tape on my bike, I have reflectors in my wheels, on my bags, on my ankles. I'm also running a DesignShine DS500 on the back and an Axiom Pulse 60 on my helmet, and a 400+ lumen light up front. I'm thinking about going with side lights too (lesser taillights pointing to the sides), and before I go to the really dangerous commute in early 2016, I intend to have a high pole with active lighting on that as well (it's likely to be too high for reflectors to be effective).

I ride in the daytime only, mostly on rural/suburban roads. I use a Dinotte 300R rear and depending on conditions the Dinotte Amber Daytime Headlight. The roads in my area are popular with cyclists and while driving I make a point to observe their visibility. My experience is that someone wearing a High Viz kit or vest can disappear in daytime shadows from roadside trees. And, those few riders who use daytime tail lights are most often using ones that are under-powered: at 50 yards they are barely visible and not attention getting.

Last summer on a bright day in a section of road with no shadows I was riding up a hill and could see a pickup in my mirror starting to slow as the vehicle approached me. He barely moved into the opposite lane and my radar turned on. As he pulled alongside, he rolled sown his window and commented that he could see my tail light from 1/4 mile back and more cyclists riding this popular road should use a bright tail light.

For riding conditions in my area, I put my safety on a bright attention-getting tail light and I am going to change to the Design Shine now that they are more readily available.

The first comment in my post was the idea I was trying to convey, and wasn't meant as an accusation or directed at you, but an observation of what I've seen.

In full daylight even the brightest bicycle tail lights just aren't that effective, and if one goes full bore with alternatives in an attempt to do so, it could create issues at night if they can't be turned down. In full daylight I have observed that a high-viz flag shows up the best and a lot further back than lights, I see a motorcyclist now and then that has a lime bandanna on their backpack, and can still see it clearly off in the distance when their tail light is no longer visible.
A small banner would work great on a pole where it would flap and flutter

[MENTION=365305]kickstart[/MENTION], I really appreciate your perspectives and the way you express them.

Thanks. :)

That is very good. Using 2 at the same time also makes a huge difference.

Does anyone make a red lens for the Magicshine? They make the wide angle lens, and having a red lens should give you more illumination than most of the blinkies out there. Adding more of these on the rear would be easier to do now with the cheap clones, and would give you the option of using one on the front for the way home if you needed more light there.

Thanks, I was surprised that no one had done this yet. Guess I should have looked before I posted, especially since I use one of their clear lenses in my Magicshine.

+ there is red transparent tape , for fixing broken auto taillight lenses , to point a superlux Headlight backwards and filter out all but the red & shorter wavelength.