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I'd probably risk it myself and base my continued use on what I see. OTOH if drivers don't see a stopped school bus with flashing lights, do you think they will see you?

My theory is that the race for more and brighter lights for vehicles as well as street lighting overwhelms the drivers. As all of the individual lights compete for attention, it's hard to pick out what the lights represent. Bike lighting is especially tough because of the narrow separation between lights. This makes it hard for drivers to gauge closing speed. Two average lights at at least 15" apart will be much better than a single super light.

Good luck to you.

Looks like good products. Not too happy about their demo video featuring a stunt rider. Doesn't do any of us any good to glorify stunt riders tearing up infrastructure, riding across sculpture and riding where signs prohibit cyclists.

Valid point. I was thinking about how some motorcycles have rear lights with some separation, which helps drivers estimate size, approach speed, etc.

The widest points on my bike would be the rear rack supports -- only 6" to 8" -- and handlebar ends (24" at least) -- but perhaps enough to help lend some sense of proportion.

I see most people who use the Serfas Thunderbolt lights (a strip shaped light) place them vertically on seatstays. I recently found that placing them horizontally is much better, maybe because our two eyes are horizontally next to each other, also it widens the distance covered. The only thing is to be sure to place them in such a way as not to touch the wheel (e.g. at some angle 30~45 degrees from rear). The same applies to when using them as front lights on the forks.

There are some completely oblivious drivers out there. But it's a bell curve. Just because some safety action you are considering won't help in every possible situation doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

You can't protect against this guy:

https://youtu.be/xQfK3HFaXFw

But you can improve your odds with the vast majority of drivers.

That's a really good point, [MENTION=40124]ItsJustMe[/MENTION]. It's a risk we all take, knowingly or not.

Canklecat ( whom you quoted ) had it right. The higher mount of the light helps the cyclist get seen when in heavy traffic. That said it also makes good sense to use a second light mounted either on the seatpost or on some other part of the bike at the same height.

Any ( steady ) light emitting source viewed from a distance at night will seem "disconnected" unless the person using it is also clad in lots of Hi-vis clothing or has the lamps using typical "flash patterns" that are usually associated with bike use.

IMO it's not that important that you can identify the light source with a type of user when viewed at distance. What is important is that the light is seen and the viewer knows that whatever is producing the light is something that he/she does not want to run into. I figure that's only common sense. Of course it helps if the light also emits a "bike related" flash pattern because that WILL help alert the approaching driver that "there is a bike somewhere ahead".

Case in point; I had a car come up beside me on a night road ride last year and the guy driving the car winds down his window and tells me he could see my rear light a half mile away. At the time I was using a very bright 200 lumen Xeccon single emitter red flashing light on the seat post. The guy told me from a distance he thought I was an ambulance on the side of the road. I figure it's not important what he thought I was at distance. I got seen and no one is going to ( knowingly ) run into something that looks like an ambulance. :thumb:

It's not a good idea to judge how well a piece of preventative safety equipment works based on
isolated accounts of total failure. Most people are never going to hit a school bus but there is always going to be a situation somewhere where someone just does the unthinkable while behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. It happens. As a cyclist no matter how safe you think you might be you're still just a person on the side of the road pedaling a bike that is completely "Defenseless" when it comes to the possibility of collision from the inattentive ( or incapacitated ) driver.

I'm sure the driver of the SUV in the accident could see fine. Likely a case of totally distracted driving. Sad story. That said, like everyone else who rides a bike on the road, the distracted ( or incapacitated ) driver is my greatest fear. If you ride on the road you can only hope you're never in the right place ( side of the road ) at the wrong time.

Guy in a truck pulled over ahead of us yesterday and flagged us down - turned out he wanted to know which tailight I was using and he wanted one. Design Shine DS 500 is one impressive tail light.

For $229, it better be.

especially when you pay in Australian Dollars plus postage - it's the Aussie Tax! Getting hit from behind would be far more expensive.:thumb:

This ... have you considered MOVING?

I'm sure some have. You and I are lucky in that we've been able to move to where cycling is enjoyable and practical. Not everyone can do that, since they have to optimize their lives by other criteria, such as where employment and family are.

Category; opportunity costs....

Sure, sure. But I hope you realize that other people have different costs and priorities and won't come to the same conclusions or solutions as you will. When that happens, it's not because they haven't thought it through.

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7640/1...40ecda9f_z.jpgLED Bicycle Headlights by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8714/1...b0cddb19_z.jpgLED Bicycle Headlights by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

The SMV (Slow Moving Vehicle) Sign, (a.k.a. Farm Triangle), with red LED accent strips... on two of my bikes. Runs day and night.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1532/2...988753d7_z.jpgIMG_4159 by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

I generally get 99% of motorists to pass me with seven to ten feet of clearance, I think that's an indicator that it works.

What the last post by Hotbike points out is that it is not just the intensity of the light but also the size of the lighted area that makes for an effective tail light at night. It seems to be exactly the opposite during the day when a compact but intense light works better. I've seen the "arms race" for more powerful lights get to the point where you almost need to take out a bank loan to afford some of them. Just being brighter isn't always the answer.

I've been using a pair of DIY lightsticks on a recumbent trike mounted vertically on the frame behind my head. There are 78 individual red LEDs wound around each 11" long plastic tube. It's visible from every direction but since it is behind me, the strobe mode isn't distracting. Depending on how you power it with three 18650 Li-ion batteries or lithium polymer battery pack, the cost can be from less than $15 to about $25. The run time between charges is more than 8 hours on strobe mode.

Some roads are just too dangerous to ride day or night. If it is not the distracted motorist it could be somebody who doesn't have enough space to get around you but tries to do so anyway.

Yes, some roads are dangerous, no doubt about that. Personally I try to stay away from roads that allow passing, have vehicles moving over 40 mph and have little to no shoulder. On the other hand I'll ride those same roads if it's the time of day ( or night ) when traffic is very low.

Yep, I've had a person do that to me before and indeed that type of behavior is a great threat. The people who do that sort of thing are usually the kind of people that most law-abiding people will refer to as xxx-wipes.

Wearing HiViz, using lights, and reflective materials to the bike and luggage, and avoiding sharing the road with motorized vehicles wherever and whenever possible seems to be the best we can do.

I have two hi viz vests and can't bring myself to wear either of them. I think I've worn one once.

It's a great idea but the cheap, inflexible plastic fit is a no go. I just don't like it. I don't know why. It's super inexpensive but integrated reflective material on a jacket seems like a far superior solution, although those jackets cost a fortune usually.

Where are you?

I put reflective tape on my jacket and mittens. On my mittens, I made an arrow pattern so when I stick my hand out, the arrow is my turn signal. I plan to put some more on my pedals and bike and shoes. Some of it is stealthy, so it won't show in the daylight if I can manage to match the colors.

I got the Cygolite Hotshot 50 hoping it would be bright enough for daytime use, but it's just adequate in daylight and then only within the narrow aperture of maximum brightness directly behind the typical Cygolite Hotshot narrowly collimated beam.

Overall it's no better than my $15 Planet Bike Rack Blinky 5, just different. The Planet Bike rack lights combine LEDs and reflectors, so it has decent visibility across a wide angle of view. The PB has a somewhat narrow aperture of maximum brightness but that primarily affects the viewer's elevation, not lateral position. The Cygolite has a narrow aperture of maximum brightness that's much more position sensitive.

I suppose I'll keep the Cygolite since I needed to replace the balky old lights that came with my '92 Univega. It's still an improvement over those much older LEDs. And it is very bright at night, with a good selection of flashing and steady modes to suit personal tastes and local etiquette. But I won't rely on it as a daylight visible rear light.

A bit disappointing, because in the REI store the Cygolite Hotshot 50 (the most powerful Cygolite they had in stock) appeared subjectively as bright as the Niterider Sentinel 150. But both have pretty much the same characteristics: maximum brightness confined to a very narrow aperture directly behind; rapid falloff in apparent brightness from the sides; some ability to decrease brightness and flash characteristics to suit nighttime group rides to avoid distracting other nearby cyclists.

And I've added more hi-viz yellow and green cycling clothes -- jerseys, windbreaker, etc. And I plan to add some reflective tape, stickers or iron-ons. Not fashionable but should help visibility.

I've loaned both my Shimano Storm Jacket and Pearl Izumi windbreaker to other cyclists in group rides who didn't dress warmly enough, and can say those little reflective touches really do pop at night. So adding a few more won't hurt.

I've been using a Dinotte Quad Red for about a year and a half now and love it! I have motorists all the time tell me they could see me very far away. I've had numerous others ask about the light and where they can purchase it from.

I ride in medium to heavy city traffic during daylight hours (very bright sun in the summer) and generally pedal 30-40 miles a day. The light is great and I've noticed less close calls / buzzing since adding it. Yes it's pretty expensive as far as lights go but I won't ride without it..

A headlight with a red lens?

(if "serious" is meaning winning the 'My tail light is brighter than Yours' Competition)





:lol:

It's a tail light.