berner

Dang! I need to get me one of these. Hidden motors for road bikes exist ? here?s how they work | CyclingTips

chasm54

There are threads on this all over the forums. General cycling, pro racing, road cycling, CX racing, masters racing, probably a few I've missed. A lot of interest has been sparked by the fact that a bike so equipped was discovered at an elite CX race in Belgium, apparently owned by the team of the national U23 champion.

qcpmsame 

The young lady's father has made a bushel of excuses about this episode (her brother is on suspension for doping, as I understand it, right now.) Should be interesting to see what develops, and what the UCI does. I read some posts, elsewhere, that called for everything from a year's suspension, to capitol punishment, or at least a lifetime ban from competition. As I understand the current rules, such severe punishment isn't called for, but stranger things have happened in professional cycling,and other pro sports as well. The possible technical setup is interesting as well, but I have no idea how this was done, in this case. Fun times indeed.

Bill

rawly old

I'm familiar with Vivax,(formerly known as Gruber Assist), and the fact that it may have
been use to cheat in races. 200 watts ain't much, & unless you're skinny it's not going
to be much of an advantage. The fact that you can hide it & pretend you're on a real bike
is kinda lying to yourself. I have suffered dozens of fractures. I'm old,fat, & my knees
are going. Still I do 95% of my riding on regular bikes. In lew of my declining mobility,
I've built a bike to cope with infirmity. I say why 'kitty' foot about it. If your gonna 'motah',
do it up right. I detest the cheap Chinese chain drive motor kits. So..I've put a quality,
EPA & C.A.R B. approved, Japanese 39cc* with a friction drive on an old mtn. bike.
Most decent electrics are quite expensive & still have a pretty large carbon footprint
from the manufacturing end.
I get 140 mpg at 18 mph with a 140 mile range. Electrics can't do that yet and can
take up to 6 hrs. to charge. Unlike the chain kits, I don't need a manual clutch &
by lifting the roller off, I can still ride it like a regular bike when I choose.
*1650 watts,(2.2 hp.)

chasm54

In the first place, if you're a bike racer who's even half decent, you're skinny. In the second place, for the average-sized pro 200 watts is maybe 3 watts per kilo of body weight, which will increase the amount of power they can put out at threshold by more than 50% (Chris Froome's functional threshold power is around 6.2 w/kg). A 50% increase is huge, it's stratospheric. Even if the battery gave out after 20 minutes, in that time you'd have put literally kilometers on the field.

Not interested in the pros? Lets look at the 90 kilo unfit elderly cyclist. He probably doesn't average much more than 150 watts on an hours ride, and struggles in the hills. Being able to turn on an extra 200 watts when needed would be transformative, the difference would be enormous. To be specific, my own threshold power was around 300 watts - it'll less now because I'm not as fit I was. But at that output on a 6% climb I'd be climbing at 14-15 kph. Give me an extra 200 watts and I'm climbing at 22-23 kph. Not much of an advantage?

avidone1

It's blatant cheating. I actually like the term "bike doping" because it gives an advantage the way 'rider doping' would.
The penalties should be the same.
P.S....I don't care that the girl in the Belgium was tearfully proclaiming her innocence. The minute she started pedaling she had to know her bike was rigged.

qcpmsame 

I am not sure which assist motor she is accused of using, but the reports I have read quoted a race official saying that she was pulling something like, 10 seconds, on the other competitors up one of the longer climbs. This is not an inconsequential amount gain, by any means, it is , as said by Chas, substantial. I just hope the inspection results are released quickly, and everything is transparent about the UCI/Belgian Federation investigation.

A few years back, one of the big name pros, I forget which one, was accused of having one of the very compact assist motors that integrated into the seat post, with a bevel and pinion gear at the bottom bracket's spindle. The battery would have been above the motor, in the seat post. Inspection found absolutely no battery or motor on/in the bicycle. I want to say it was Alberto Contador, but not 100% sure. The various conspiracy factions claimed he had "jetted" away from a pack at an acceleration rate beyond human capabilities. In this latest case, it was obvious that she was seriously pulling away, up hills, from the others, easily.

It seems that her, and her father's/manager's numerous excuses are making her look even worse, the Federation expressed shame, and remorse about this situation, they look at it as a poor reflection on the entire countries cycling program. Me thinks he doth complaineth too much.....

Bill

chasm54

It was Cancellara, and he was innocent.

I don't know which account you've been reading of the Belgian race, Bill, but the initial report I read said that the the accused rider had dropped out with a mechanical on another bike, and that the fixed bike hadn't been ridden in the race. Maybe I'm out of date. Got a link?

EDIT: Scratch that, I now see she admits to having ridden the bike but claims to have been unaware it was doctored, that it wasn't hers but was identical to hers. Hmmm.

qcpmsame 

Thanks, Chas, it was beyond what my PD addled brain could come up with, I had the C part of the last name right, though. And, I somehow remembered that they were innocent, at least to the non-conspiracy folks.

Not the same article, but the one I read was in Velo. This is a link to Brian Cookson's latest report about this sorry event:Analysis: UCI stuck to its guns in search for hidden motors - VeloNews.com Seems that the UCI has found the claims were correct about her having the motor, not that there seemed to be much doubt. She just keeps modifying her story, kind of like it has to evolve to suit the current findings. She has a brilliant future in US politics, if she decides to move over here.

Bill

dbg

Yea. This would help my workouts immensely. New personal bests for all my routes! (Just kidding)

For sleazing an advantage in a competition --maybe understandable(?). But as someone who does mostly light touring and riding for exercise, I don't understand the attraction to adding motors to a bike. On a tour, once you've exceeded its fuel capacity, you end up hauling around dead weight, --way not worth it.

If that's what you want, get a MoPed. Weight to power production is still much better with fossil fuel and combustion engine.

Darkover

Seems like you could detect this easily with a thermal imaging camera, and see the hot spot in the top tube.

berner

Wilier Triestina threatens legal action over motorised cross bike - Cycling Weekly It's not over. Ripples from this incident of cheating are spreading out. Now Willier, who produced and provided the bike, is getting involved.

qcpmsame 

Now, its another person saying it was his bicycle, and not one of the young ladies spares, and that her team mechanics mistakenly gave it to her. the UCI has replied that it is completely the rider's, and their team's, responsibility for making sure that any bicycle use is in full compliance with all of the rules. Owner of electric bike seized during Cyclocross World Championships revealed - Cycling Weekly

As said above this reply, Wilier issued a strong statement distancing themselves from the rider, and any use of motorised doping, as this is being called. I imagine that this would be a big concern for any bicycle company involved in racing, in any form. I never realized how much this gets raised as a possible cheating cause, Chris Froome said his bikes have been checked numerous times for hidden motors.

And, someone claims that this type of motorization is old news, that some type of electromagnetic wheels are the current (no pun intended) method of choice. Look at the various articles in Cycling Weekly about this topic, man I am behind on my cheating methods, so little time, so much crime to take part in...

Bill

OldsCOOL

Welp, there goes Strava. It's bad enough having people driving your routes and cluttering the standings.

fietsbob

Crack open that fat wallet , you can buy a 2700 euro motor, or an un hidden mid drive motorized bike, complete.. for $3K

berner

Between presidential debates and reality programming and cycling news, who needs TV for entertainment.

InTheRain

I have an electric motor on my commuter. It's way too big to conceal... and there is no reason to conceal it. It's been fabulous. Rides like a bike (pedal assist only.) It's completely silent. It allows me to load up the panniers with anything that I think I could ever need. It has 4 levels of assist. Riding in the lowest level of assist is still more difficult than riding my carbon fiber road bike. Level two is fairly close to riding my road bike. I spend most of my time in levels 2 and 3. Level 4 is great for getting going from a complete stop (intersections and stop signs.)

I don't race or compete. This bike is a commuter. Since I commute in a lot of rainy and cold weather, I need a bike that has full fenders (don't want those on my road bike); lights, lights.... and more lights; rack and panniers (I carry a lot of clothes for all different weather conditions.) For long distance rides, events, and club rides... the road bike is the appropriate tool. E-bikes have their place. Legally they are allowed on MUP's and bike lanes if they meet certain criteria (my bike meets those criteria.) One of the posts above mentioned a gas powered bike... not legal here in Washington State to operate as a bicycle. It sounds very much like a scooter. I own a scooter... but it is registered and licensed and must be operated on the roadways - no MUP's or bike lanes. It's efficient - around 120 mpg.

rawly old

[QUOTE=chasm54;18502703]In the first place, if you're a bike racer who's even half decent, you're skinny.

I believe I said "unless you're skinny" If you're 6'4" and built like an offensive lineman 200 watts ain't all that
much. I've been on a 250 watt electric bike & was not all that impressed. The motor with battery pack
weighed about as my setup,(sans fuel), the difference being 6.6 times the power & 3 times the range
of the average electric bike. When you've had one leg shattered in 4 pieces above the knee & more
than a dozen below, a shattered kneecap on the other leg with 2 severed tendons, and are pushing 70,
I think I can grant myself the occasional use of fossil fuel. I pedal more miles than I drive,
(about 2500 per yr. driven) I ride that motor less than 100. It's just nice to have a kickass bugout
bike to fall back on. I've even got a cool little trailer for it.

tmac100

This reminds me of a friend who was chortling about the number of steps he made per day.
Turns out he strapped his pedometer to his lower leg and it counted steps as he "tapped his foot" in time with music he was listening to, or while playing his guitar.
Cheating is cheating. This is not about winning at all costs. Vince Lombardi ??

qcpmsame 

From reading the Cycling Weekly articles, and a few elsewhere, they have some software, and an attachment for a standard, garden variety laptop computer, that picks up RFI, from the motor.

Bill

70sSanO

Hmmm... Looks like Lance should have be talking to engineers back then instead of doctors.

John