Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

Leg pain experiment

Search
Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Leg pain experiment

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-10-16 | 12:27 PM
  #26  
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
Thread Starter
just another gosling
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 2,673
From: Everett, WA

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Originally Posted by VegasTriker
A gerontologist is not a 70 year old MD but a doctor who specializes in treating the complications that come with old age. It's a new branch of medicine so there aren't many of this specialty available. It's too bad because as a society with a lot of aging individuals, we need doctors who understand us. I gather that you don't trust doctors so go with whatever you get here. My own primary care physician isn't much good for this either. She's fairly young and seems to think that you just have to put up with any problem that may arise and just dispenses pills to mask the problem.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I know what a gerontologist is. I was just saying that a doctor's understanding of one's problems would be deeper had they some personal experience of one's issues, or indeed any medical experience. One of our problems here is that we are a cohort that's new to this society. To say that the problems of the 60+ endurance athlete are poorly understood would be an understatement. I ride with a 64 y.o. research physiologist who tells me that he doesn't know of anyone my age who is as active as I. Most folks get broken in one way or another by the time they get this old. The pool of people to study is currently very small, but increasing every day. In another generation there will be a lot more knowledge concerning the care and feeding of the aging athlete.
__________________
Results matter

Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Reply
Old 03-10-16 | 12:47 PM
  #27  
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
Thread Starter
just another gosling
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 2,673
From: Everett, WA

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Originally Posted by MoAlpha
I think I may have experienced something similar during times when I was ramping my mileage up, having resumed moderately serious road cycling and training in my late 50s after a decade or so off the bike or just commuting. It's an annoying dull ache, which I experienced primarily at night and which sometimes merged into "restless legs," which I also have from time to time.

I certainly don't know everything, but I happen to be a neurologist with a lot of hard miles on an almost 60 yo body and have experienced nerve, nerve root, and even spinal cord compression and damage and i'm all too familiar with what they feel like. This was certainly none of them. It went away on its own, presumably when I reached some level of endurance/fitness/strength and has not recurred, even after major, exhausting, unaccustomed efforts. That makes me dubious of the cytokine theory, at least in my case. Pet theory: I was on a low dose of a statin during this time and never had any diagnosable muscle problems, but I did go off of it (in accord with guidelines) about the time the pain went away. Don't stop yours, based on my worthless anecdote!
Not just a pet theory or worthless anecdote.
The most common statin side effect is muscle pain.
Statin side effects: Weigh the benefits and risks - Mayo Clinic

There's been a lot of discussion of this over in T&N with some folks getting off statins so they could ride well and keeping their markers in range through diet and exercise.

To ramp up the intensity a bit, do like I did: Alpine ski over 20,000 vertical feet, then go home and do an hour of one-legged pedaling on your rollers, then go to the gym and do full body work, lifting to failure and PRing your squat. My legs were so sore the next day I couldn't touch them. That was a bit much. I won't do that again.

Don't worry, you're still below my 63 age threshold for when it starts to hit the fan. You ain't seen nothin' yet. I was riding doubles, randonneuring, and doing RAMROD when I was in my early 60s, no problem. I'd like to ride RAMROD again this coming summer and climb Mt. Rainier again. The latter should be fairly easy but not the former.
__________________
Results matter

Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Reply
Old 03-10-16 | 01:19 PM
  #28  
Wildwood's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
20 Anniversary
Community Builder
Community Influencer
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 15,394
Likes: 8,308
From: Seattle area

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I train year-round, mostly for cycling, a little for hiking and skiing. For the past several years, my legs have hurt every day. I can't remember a day when they didn't. I finally got curious about whether that's just because I'm old and pain comes with age, or whether it's simply that I train all the time and so I'm always sore, sometimes more, sometimes less.
These are my hobbies and I add a little kayak for a water sport, but gyms are claustrophobic. My apologies for not reading all the posts, if already stated.
In addition to the 'growing old explanation' and the 'rest your body explanation' there is a chance of something out of balance. Check hydration/electrolite + mineral/vitamin balance. For me the answer (if that's what it is?) required changing Dr's twice and a simple blood test that revealed an elevated muscular creatine kinase (CK) level. The feeling for me was similar in a way to excess lactic acid and loss of endurance. Trying to push through the pain for better exercise only made things worse; supposedly to the extent of destroying muscle tissue. Not sure what caused it, but less time with endurance activities has lowered it considerably. No more winter ski patrol or summer wilderness ranger but I can enjoy still enjoy my hobby time with some limitations.

Disclaimer: not a doc, so = see yours, or another, or another.......
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Wildwood is offline  
Reply
Old 03-10-16 | 01:51 PM
  #29  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,205
Likes: 0
From: N.W.Ohio
I used cherry juice for some arthritis pain i had, not muscle pain. It did the job. After reading your post would i assume that the cherry juice acts as a NSAID?
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Tell us more about your success.

Many antioxidants suppress the production of various cytokines during exercise. This has been well studied and is generally accepted. However there seems also to be a positive link between said cytokine production and muscle growth, i.e. while antioxidants may reduce inflammation resulting from exercise, they may also inhibit the hypertrophy of damaged muscles. It has been generally accepted that chronic use of NSAIDs for muscle pain inhibits hypertrophy due to the suppression of the factors which create inflammation. This latter has been my experience.

Thus I used to take 1g or more of Vitamin C per day until I saw a post by, IIRC Machka, that Vitamin C supplementation had been found to be negatively associated with endurance performance:
Oral administration of vitamin C decreases muscle mitochondrial biogenesis and hampers training-induced adaptations in endurance performance
I immediately dropped it from my supplements and if anything my muscles were less sore and endurance performance better. Certainly not worse. I was advised to take the antioxidant alpha lipoic acid (ALA) for my age-related macular degeneration, but that particular antioxidant has been found to have no effect on interleukin-6, an inflammatory cytokine released by exercise. https://www.academicjournals.org/jour...f/52B9D9E30666
freedomrider1 is offline  
Reply
Old 03-10-16 | 02:05 PM
  #30  
dot dash
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 12,958
Likes: 6,514
From: Land of Pleasant Living

Bikes: Shmikes

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Not just a pet theory or worthless anecdote. Statin side effects: Weigh the benefits and risks - Mayo Clinic

There's been a lot of discussion of this over in T&N with some folks getting off statins so they could ride well and keeping their markers in range through diet and exercise.

To ramp up the intensity a bit, do like I did: Alpine ski over 20,000 vertical feet, then go home and do an hour of one-legged pedaling on your rollers, then go to the gym and do full body work, lifting to failure and PRing your squat. My legs were so sore the next day I couldn't touch them. That was a bit much. I won't do that again.

Don't worry, you're still below my 63 age threshold for when it starts to hit the fan. You ain't seen nothin' yet. I was riding doubles, randonneuring, and doing RAMROD when I was in my early 60s, no problem. I'd like to ride RAMROD again this coming summer and climb Mt. Rainier again. The latter should be fairly easy but not the former.
If I can stay off the drugs, thrash around the roads for a few hours a week; survive the occasional, multi-day, ocean race; and cruise a bit with the wife, I'm a happy little guy.
MoAlpha is offline  
Reply
Old 03-10-16 | 02:07 PM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,720
Likes: 111
From: North of Boston

Bikes: Kona Dawg, Surly 1x1, Karate Monkey, Rockhopper, Crosscheck , Burley Runabout,

Op, you seem to do a LOT of intense training and workouts. Relax and enjoy? Rest days? Yoga? Massage stuff?
Leebo is offline  
Reply
Old 03-10-16 | 03:27 PM
  #32  
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
Thread Starter
just another gosling
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 2,673
From: Everett, WA

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Originally Posted by Leebo
Op, you seem to do a LOT of intense training and workouts. Relax and enjoy? Rest days? Yoga? Massage stuff?
I'll do that when I get old. The less I do, the less I can do. That's a slick chute. Meanwhile, after a 30 year lapse I'm almost back skiing like I could at 25. When I was 18 and skiing at our local area, I took an oath that I'd ski there for free at 70. Yeah, so it's not free anymore, but close enough. I just hope I don't break something, but hopefully heavy leg work will help there.
__________________
Results matter

Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Reply
Old 03-10-16 | 04:37 PM
  #33  
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
Thread Starter
just another gosling
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 2,673
From: Everett, WA

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Originally Posted by Wildwood
These are my hobbies and I add a little kayak for a water sport, but gyms are claustrophobic. My apologies for not reading all the posts, if already stated.
In addition to the 'growing old explanation' and the 'rest your body explanation' there is a chance of something out of balance. Check hydration/electrolite + mineral/vitamin balance. For me the answer (if that's what it is?) required changing Dr's twice and a simple blood test that revealed an elevated muscular creatine kinase (CK) level. The feeling for me was similar in a way to excess lactic acid and loss of endurance. Trying to push through the pain for better exercise only made things worse; supposedly to the extent of destroying muscle tissue. Not sure what caused it, but less time with endurance activities has lowered it considerably. No more winter ski patrol or summer wilderness ranger but I can enjoy still enjoy my hobby time with some limitations.

Disclaimer: not a doc, so = see yours, or another, or another.......
Hope you got a full workup and the various myopathies eliminated as causes. My CK is normal. No leg pain during exercise, only after. I always take 15g whey protein before and at least that much immediately after exercise. Have done for many years. There's a study showing that 200 cal. BCAA taken after exercise helped CK levels. No great surprise as that's a heckuva lot.
__________________
Results matter

Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Reply
Old 03-10-16 | 06:46 PM
  #34  
Wildwood's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
20 Anniversary
Community Builder
Community Influencer
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 15,394
Likes: 8,308
From: Seattle area

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
There's a study showing that 200 cal. BCAA taken after exercise helped CK levels. No great surprise as that's a heckuva lot.
Will ask Dr next visit. But CK not an issue with reduced intensity&duration. I just mostly buy-in to the slow-it-down-a-little-bit (if you want to enjoy it for many more years) theory. Sorta like - speed is not my friend, no crashes on the slopes, keep the rubber side down, backpacks less than 35lbs - if the dream is to kayak with the orcas.
As to the full work-up = presently on 2nd neurological work-up with new neurologist. Rheumatology was within limits. At least I pass basic health indicators with no meds and get outside daily.
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Wildwood is offline  
Reply
Old 03-10-16 | 07:00 PM
  #35  
Senior Member
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,940
Likes: 363
If any of you guys are having trouble with leg pains, specifically the Restless Leg Syndrome, please get a work up by a neurologist should you have any sign of tremors, swallowing issues, or balance problems. Those were one of the symptoms I had, and didn't relate to what they could be part of. RLS and swallowing issues were what the docs picked up on that led to my Parkinson's Disease diagnosis. Caught me totally by surprise, no idea that PD was setting in and it wasn't on the radar for a family trait. Once the diagnosis was confirmed, and the proper management routine and medications were sorted out, things have gone pretty well.

Just a heads up based on some comments here, sorry for the hi-jack, CFboy. I will second what Wildwood said about making sure that proper rest is included in your program. One thing that I took away from reading Joe Friel's, "Faster After 50", was that you had to get your rest, in order for the body to recover from strenuous rides, runs, or whatever you do. Yep, intensity and effort yield rewards, but things have to get the chance to rebuild afterwards. JMHO, YMMV. Keep up the good work, too.

Bill
qcpmsame is offline  
Reply
Old 03-11-16 | 10:18 AM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,340
Likes: 496
From: Bristol, R. I.

Bikes: Specialized Secteur, old Peugeot

Several months ago I read a book about anti-inflammatory properties of various foods. The author graduated from Yale and then played in the NFL for the Miami Dolphins on special teams. At the conclusion of his NFL career, he entered medical school and is now an MD in Connecticut. His special interest is nutrition and he is a proponent of natural foods for their anti-inflammatory properties. After all is said and done, the chemical interactions of various substances as as shown in medical research, you are looking at the mediterranean diet. Top 15 Anti-Inflammatory Foods - Dr. Axe So plenty of exercise, even strenuous exercise, and good diet is a proven path to good health.
berner is offline  
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
InTheRain
Training & Nutrition
6
02-21-16 09:37 PM
Crappymonkey
Road Cycling
7
07-03-12 12:03 PM
ancker
Road Cycling
3
07-19-11 03:40 PM
Yen
Fifty Plus (50+)
22
02-14-11 04:38 PM
indybiker01
Training & Nutrition
6
10-10-10 05:37 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.