This presumes that the driver even realized a cyclist was in the lane.

In this case, the curb as at the left on a relatively "high speed" road where most drivers would not expect anything (other than a car) in the left lane.

Taking the lane in this case might have been worse.

There is also a good chance that he might have been seen.

Both of us are doing nothing more than speculating.

So, it appears you are rating "being seen" at the same chance as being dead (or much more seriously injured).

Anyway, there isn't really a "good chance" that he would be significantly more noticeable a few feet to the right on that road.

If a driver didn't notice him at the curb from 50-100 (or more) feet away, he wouldn't be much more noticeable 2-3 feet to the right.

It's a particularly bad place to expect that drivers will notice you at all (whatever you are doing).

I'm not speculating. I'm basing it on the facts that are available.

* We know the driver didn't see him.

* We know he didn't do too badly with what he did.

(Just to be clear, I'm a fairly vigorous lane taker.)

We are all certainly speculating. And I'm not so sure the driver didn't see him. That itself is speculation.

The people advising taking the lane are more certain about it being a better option in this case than "speculating" would allow them.

No one complained that those people were speculating.

We know he did reasonably OK with what he actually did. It's the alternatives that people are proposing that are speculative.

It's a risky road in any case. Taking the lane isn't magic.

That's more like wild speculation.

If the driver did see him (and hit him deliberately?), then taking the lane wouldn't have likely made things better.

I'm not disagreeing that under some circumstances, taking the lane can be a bad idea. But what a motorist would or would not have done, did or did not see, thought or did not think ... is unquestionably speculation.

I've had people close pass me under circumstances where it would seem to be anything but wildly speculative ... like laying on their horn as they pass?

This is part of the problem with pontificating about what someone should or shouldn't have done in a particular situation when we weren't there and didn't witness it.

"rating "being seen" at the same chance as being dead" are your words, not mine.

I simply asked where the OP was in the road and why, and then expressed my opinion that it is often best to take the lane so as to prevent motorists from passing unsafely. That's all.

Not really sure why you are choosing to argue with me.




-Tim-

Because your advice for this situation is dangerous.

No one else considered that taking the lane in this case might have been a bad idea.

What we know is that he didn't fare badly well with what he actually did. That's not speculation.

People are saying he would have been better off riding in the middle of the lane. That's speculation. And they are completely ignoring that the result of doing that could have been much. much worse. It's as-if they have no ability to conceive of any other possibility! They are assuming that taking the lane is always better!

It's wildly speculative in this case.

No one had a problem with people pontificating about taking the lane.

I'm the only one who is considering that the person who was there might have made the appropriate decision.

That is, I'm not the one second guessing the choice the person there made. You (and others) are the one doing that.

You and the TdF winner Mr Froome.

I never gave advice.

Again, I simply asked what the OP did and why so that I might learn from his experience and then expressed an opinion that it is often best to take the lane.

Those were my words. No advice was given by me to anyone on this thread. You are arguing with things I didn't say.


-Tim-

Did you miss the part about the motorist blowing his horn at him? Unless that is some kind of wild coincidence, it's a pretty good indication he was seen.

Read the thread again and tell me where I said he would have been better off doing something different. I simply indicated how I take the lane when it is necessary. And I also pointed out the dangers of taking the lane (drivers who don't see or are not paying attention).

I and others have conceded that taking the lane is not always the best option. And sometimes it is. It depends on the circumstances.

It's an indication he was seen but, maybe, seen too late.

The wild speculation is that the collision was deliberate.

You do so here.

It's possible that "curb-hugging", in this case, was less dangerous.

If the driver is distracted, they will hit you in the middle of the lane too.

You are implying that taking the lane in this case is among those cases where "it's often best to take the lane".

You gave no indication that this might have possibly been one of those cases where it wasn't "best".

It's suggesting it was better to take the lane in this case. It's implied advice.

Mostly, after I brought it up. No one else apparently has any idea at all what circumstances might make it not the best idea.

+1
Waiting until you were across from the turn lane before crossing over to the left would have been a much safer way to make that turn, which is not speculating on anything.

Dude ... you are master at putting words in other people's mouths.

Have at it ... I'm done.

Arguing about the argument instead of the topic is something I try to avoid and my departure is long overdue.

I'll clip in and push off now. See all y'all at the top of the climb.


-Tim-

I got run off the road in a similar fashion a couple of years ago. Guy kept going. Some passer-by in a care chased him down and got his plate, then flagged a cop. Guy got nailed! He had pushed me off the road into a curb and I went down. The doorframe on his car literally took skin off my arm like a potato peeler!

Glad you and the bike are unhurt, OP!

I agree with this. Auto driver wouldn't expect you to be where you were .

This too.

The next intersection has a traffic light (and it wasn't, it appears, out of the way). There are a couple of ways to use that.

I'm not sure why other people didn't seem to realize this obvious thing.

Another factor in situations like this is a vehicle's speed. I would have said "speed limit" but that seems more irrelevant for a lot of today's drivers....... There are certainly a lot of factors to quickly process when making the decision for a situation like this. I have a similar turn where I now exit off the road on the right hand side at the start of the turn lane. I look for a clear opening in traffic and then dart across both lanes over to the turn lane when I can do it safely. It's amazing how fast vehicles can come up on you when they are traveling 45-55 mph.

I don't worry about what drivers might or might not do. I don't go left until I have somewhere to go, either an island defined by double yellow lines before the left turn lane starts or the turn lane itself. If there's traffic back, I simply come to a full stop, look back, and wait until there is no traffic back, then go over to the left turn lane or intersection, whatever it is. I very rarely have to stop. Usually I can adjust my speed so I'm in the right place when a large traffic gap opens. I use a helmet mirror.

I was once run into the right curb (US) while commuting to work over 50 years ago. It can be impossible to take the lane during rush hour BTW. But it was my fault. The car didn't touch me. I was ~4" closer to the curb than I should have been, so my being startled and too close to the curb caused the crash. I wasn't wearing a helmet and went headfirst into a phone pole, still in my toe clips. That probably explains a lot.

My state has a "FLAP" law that applies on divided roads like this. I ride FLAP all the time when approaching a desired left turn in this situation. Like on this road, there is generally a yellow line and about a foot of shoulder area left of it. I ride on or near the line and never have had a problem, at least, never more than when riding on the right. Insisting on "taking the (left) lane" on at least one of my routes would probably be a death wish (besides being illegal AFAICT).

I suspect OPs problem may have been he was startled by the horn and it could be (wasn't there so no way to really tell, just a possibility) that had he held his line, all would have ended well, though with the muttered "eff you a hole" (I am trying to avoid giving the salute on these).

scott s.
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