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Toe cage use.

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Old 07-05-18, 02:32 PM
  #26  
indyfabz
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post

I have a new in the box pair of riding shoes from 1985, more the touring style that have grooves in the soles that match a pair of Superbe pedals om my Ď85 Trek 760.
Wow. I remember that style.
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Old 07-05-18, 07:32 PM
  #27  
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I've used toe clips and straps on my road bike and have for years. The difference is now I no longer use cleats. I changed my road shoe to a Specialized Elite Touring shoe. It is still fairly rigid but not so much as to keep me from walking. And the best part is the rubberized sole. It stays pretty much in place on the pedals and gives me all the float I could ever need. I just slide in and slide out. I don't notice any lack of efficiency. I am using Dura Ace 7400 pedals.

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Old 07-05-18, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Does anyone still make "cleats?" The last pair I saw was in one of those used sporting goods stores. May have been a Play it Again Sports. My first pair were made by Duegi. Hand-crated, wooden soles and vented leather uppers made in Italy. Think I paid $60 or $70 for them back in '87. They were my pride and joy. Wore those things until they fell apart.

Bicycle Shoe Cleats for Toeclip Pedals $29.95 at Yellow Jersey
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Old 07-05-18, 10:50 PM
  #29  
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I'm 63 yo and have never used clipless. And I still wear my Pietro Detto's with cleats. I'm just too old school to change.
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Old 07-06-18, 06:25 AM
  #30  
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^^^ This!!!

"Old school" will always be cool in my book!!
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Old 07-06-18, 07:57 AM
  #31  
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I mention this tidbit from personal experience any time the "toe clips & straps vs clipless pedals" question comes up:

It took me ten years to get completely comfortable/confident using toe clips & straps.
It took me two weeks to get completely comfortable/confident using clipless pedals.

If you're looking to maximize efficiency, either is a better solution than platform pedals.
But neither is a better solution if you're looking to maximize compatible footwear.
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Old 07-06-18, 10:36 AM
  #32  
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The main reason I used to use toe clips was on occasion my foot would come off the pedal, I don't remember why right now. So I added toe clips, set "loose" so I could slide my foot in and out easily.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned "sway" in clipless pedals. Some clipless keeps your foot at a 90 degree angle to the pedal, but others have some side to side movement as well, and others even more. Perhaps a clipless with a larger degree of sway would work for you.
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Old 07-06-18, 11:42 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Helderberg View Post
Would like to hear from people here that use them. I do not have the easy use of turning my right foot as I had nerve damage years ago and have muscle atrophy. The cages look easier to use in my situation but I have not ridden a bike equipped with them so I have no frame of reference. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Thank you in advance, Frank.
Frank, you have nerve damage and muscle atrophy in your right foot. It sounds to me like toeclips and good pedals are a no-brainer. I ride putting my left foot down at stops as I am guessing you do. My right foot usually gets put into the toeclip, the strap tightened and stays there until I get off the bike. (How tight I pull the strap depends on the ride.) If you did the same, I am guessing your foot challenges would simply become a non-issue. You would have to learn the routine of pedal pick-up with your left foot, just as cyclists did for the previous century. It is not difficult, just an acquired skill anyone can pick up. There are tricks, like having shoes that work well with your pedals. Pedals can be had that are easier than others (and pedals can be modified to make them far easier to pick up).

All that said, standard rattrap pedals are not all that easy to get into. Most have tabs to flip them that are far too small to be easy. If you choose to go full toeclips, see Lyotard Pedals . That Leotard platform pedal is the all-time easiest toeclip pedal to pick up. There are probably quite a few out there still. I have no idea the prices, I don't recommend them because if you ride as hard as I do, you will loosen the press fits of the construction and they will eventually die. I have a good size box of dead one.

I now make real tabs for more conventional pedals out of 1/2 x 1/8 steel flat bar from Home Depot. I usually then have to hang weight from the front of the pedal to get it to hang properly for good pick-up. (I ride in traffic on fix gears, always putting my foot down at lights. Good pick up is essential. I get two tries, After that I am going too fast and will have to slow to a near stop on the other side of the intersection.) PM me if you choose to go this route.

A solution that might work really well for you - get both full toeclips and straps and mini toeclips. Yes, both, Put the full one on the right side for your foot that has less both abilities and feedback. Strap it tight and it isn't going anywhere it shouldn't. Left pedal - put on a miniclip on for easy pickup and escape. Best of both worlds. Drawback - forgetting to release the right strap or being unable to get your right foot out in time. This will happen. When it does- relax and just accept you made a fool of yourself. Collapse onto the road, doing your best to hit the road with as much skin as possible. (This only happens at a standstill. If you hit in a lot of places none will get hurt badly. Nothing that is except your ego. Like I say, it will happen. I've done it 100 times and to both sides (with 150,000 miles and 50 years of toeclip riding).

indyfabz -"Does anyone still make 'cleats?' The last pair I saw was in one of those used sporting goods stores. May have been a Play it Again Sports. My first pair were made by Duegi. Hand-crated, wooden soles and vented leather uppers made in Italy. Think I paid $60 or $70 for them back in '87. They were my pride and joy. Wore those things until they fell apart"

Yes. Exustar. They make two versions. The cheap (~$20) track cleats work really well. Compatible with LOOK (3-bolt) shoes. Easily the best traditional slotted cleats I have ever used or seen in my 45 years of cleat use. Running them on the 3-bolt shoes is a joy. Put them on semi-tight, wiggle your foot to optimum cleat angle and position and tighten. When the cleat gets worn: mark the edges with tape, unbolt and put on a new pair. Aluminum so use pedals with steel cages. (If you use aluminum cleats and aluminum cages, better plan on the cages being consumables. But aluminum cleats on steel cages get really good grip when pulling hard and don't require super tight straps to not pull out, unlike the plastic cleats that are kind to aluminum cages. The simple test - how steep a hill can you get up on your fix gear? When your foot pulls out, you're walking. Newish Exustar and high quality leather straps are the best. Well, double strapped locking track cleats are better, but not remotely road worthy!)

Ben
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Old 07-06-18, 11:58 AM
  #34  
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rsn48
I'm surprised no one has mentioned "sway" in clipless pedals. Some clipless keeps your foot at a 90 degree angle to the pedal, but others have some side to side movement as well, and others even more. Perhaps a clipless with a larger degree of sway would work for you.
Float is the proper term for "sway". Some clipless pedals offer "no-float" as an option. On all systems the cleat on the shoe can be adjusted for angle so the foot does not have to be necessarily at 90 degrees. (I ride with toe-in; much more on the right than the left. And no-float except on my SPDs which don't offer it.)

Frank, I am guessing that most clipless systems will be less than the best for you because of your nerve damage. You may have trouble assessing the angle of your foot and therefor how close you are to a release you may not want. They may also be harder to get into if you cannot feel the pedal whereas you can always jut pick up the pedal with your right and and slide your foot into the slip as you hold it.

Ben
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Old 07-06-18, 12:53 PM
  #35  
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WOW, I can not tell you all how much I appreciate your time and information. I have a lot to look into and a lot to research to understand what and how these systems would work for me.
Thank you all once again, Frank.
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Old 07-06-18, 12:53 PM
  #36  
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Personally, I've come to like strapless toe clips. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I've got several pair (different bikes) and they've worked well. I've got a pair of flats I intended to use with boots in the snow, but even at 10df I didn't need the boots. Perhaps next winter.
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Old 07-06-18, 02:28 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Helderberg View Post
WOW, I can not tell you all how much I appreciate your time and information. I have a lot to look into and a lot to research to understand what and how these systems would work for me.
Thank you all once again, Frank.
Welcome to the 50+ers, Frank.
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Old 07-06-18, 06:53 PM
  #38  
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I felt uncomfortable with floating cleats at first -- felt like ice skating while also trying to ride a bike. But I got accustomed to them quickly. Now I wouldn't want to change to non-floating cleats. My feet naturally find the best position without thinking about it. No problems with knee strain or anything else.
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Old 07-08-18, 12:58 PM
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The Yellow Jersey Bike Shop in Arlington, Wisconsin sells cleats that fit Look and SPD bolt pattern shoes. They're about $39 if memory serves me.
Jon
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Old 07-08-18, 06:39 PM
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Cage user

I use toe cages. I have clipless and shoes for them. I did twenty miles in them and didn't like them mostly because I bike places and want to be able to walk around without the clip/clop of a horse. Even if I leave the house to do fifty miles at some point I want to be able to walk into Starbucks for a coffee and I don't like walking in clipless shoes. I'm planning on cycling from Tampa to St' Louis in May of 2019 for charity and will most likely be doing so in cages. If anyone out the knows a reason why clipless are better for ultra-long rides, please let me know.
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Old 07-09-18, 12:15 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by mccorpsman View Post
I use toe cages. I have clipless and shoes for them. I did twenty miles in them and didn't like them mostly because I bike places and want to be able to walk around without the clip/clop of a horse. Even if I leave the house to do fifty miles at some point I want to be able to walk into Starbucks for a coffee and I don't like walking in clipless shoes. I'm planning on cycling from Tampa to St' Louis in May of 2019 for charity and will most likely be doing so in cages. If anyone out the knows a reason why clipless are better for ultra-long rides, please let me know.
Mountain bike shoes with SPD cleats are easy to walk in. Most of my cycling friends use those. I'm among the few weirdos clomping around with big clunky Look cleats on rigid soles. But I like them for riding -- I need more rigid support to prevent arch spasms -- so I try to keep my walking to a minimum. Or just take 'em off if I'm at a favorite tap room.

I used toe clips with straps and cleated shoes in the 1970s-'80s. They were fine. There were some limits to how tightly I could cinch down the strap without cutting off my circulation. With clipless the retention doesn't affect foot circulation -- but the shoe fit does.

After getting some Scott Road Pro shoes earlier this year I had to experiment with socks, insoles and velcro strap tension to get the snug fit I wanted without cutting off circulation to my toes. They're best as warm weather shoes with thin socks and a replacement insole -- the insoles provided by Scott were pretty good but not perfect for my skinny, bony feet with high arches. For winter I may need to compromise and get mountain bike shoes with SPD pedals so I can wear thicker socks.

Overall, having used both toe clips and clipless, I'd stick with clipless. It just works better for the intended purpose -- foot retention to maximum energy transfer.

That said, my hybrids still have platforms and I'm good with that. For now I want foot retention only on my road bike.

Incidentally, road-only shoes have very rigid soles. Mountain bike type clipless shoes range from fairly strongly supportive to rigid. You wouldn't want to jog in them or do any serious hiking, but some feel pretty comfortable for walking while still offering foot retention.
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Old 07-09-18, 08:03 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Mountain bike shoes with SPD cleats are easy to walk in
that's what I'm hoping, seeing as the cleat is nestled right up in there
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Old 07-09-18, 01:00 PM
  #43  
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I use toe clips and straps ever since the mid Ď70ís. Used to wear Dieto shoes with metal cleats. Back then the trick was to wear the shoes until the sole got a mark on it from the pedal and then take them to the local shoe repair guy who would nail on the cleats in that position. I went through a clipless phase in the mid Ď80ís on my Della Santa but as I aged ended up on straight bars and back to clips. For some reason I put my left foot down and then flip into my right pedal. Too late to change now I guess. That wears the right clip more I guess because I occasionally break one. I did just recently do that and it took a while to get used to the new clip/strap. Interestingly it was easier if I didnít look, just let the old instincts take over. I wear Shimano mountain bike shoes with the cleat covered with a blank. Regards.
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Old 07-09-18, 03:13 PM
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Wrong wrong wrong. Just rode right now. I put my left foot into the clip and my right foot on the ground. Step through frame. I push off on the left and when the right pedal comes around I gracefully flip it and insert my foot. At a stop my right foot slides out and then onto the ground. Who knew?
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Old 07-09-18, 03:48 PM
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I don't like riding without foot retention of some sort. This is my commuter bike and I wear regular tennis shoes. Even more important since it's a fixed gear to have foot retention. I don't usually tighten the straps, they're loose enough for me to get in and out easy, but they keep my feet from slipping off sideways. I don't know how hard they'd be to use with neuropathy. I also don't like those studs on BMX/platform pedals. And I don't like half-clips because no straps.

Yeah, I had nail-on slotted cleats in 1984 too.
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Old 07-09-18, 04:04 PM
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The best method of foot retention for the type of riding I do is the sort I am using.

Most people say the same thing.
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Old 07-09-18, 04:10 PM
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I used toeclips for many years before migrating to clipless.

One can normally extract one's feet quickly (without cleats) by pushing down and back, no matter if the straps are loose or tight.

As far as overall efficiency, there is some debate on whether it makes much difference, although they may help with short term power and simply keeping one's feet in place. Perhaps also help exercise more leg muscles
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Old 07-09-18, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Gerryattrick View Post
The best method of foot retention for the type of riding I do is the sort I am using.

Most people say the same thing.
Well said. I think preference has everything to do with your age and type of riding. I have used clips since the 70s and as a recreational rider find no need to start riding clipless despite whatever benefits they may offer.
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Old 07-09-18, 08:05 PM
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I've been using full clips with loose straps since I was in the middle of high school, around 1969. I used to wear any old sneakers, then my old cast-off leather dress shoes, then some Adidas Col d'Izoard cleatless touring shoes, then discovered some Adidas shoes "Team America" that have a nice shape to slip into and out of-a clip. I don't use any foot retention beyond the shoe-to-pedal friction. I ankle but I do not pull up beyond that (lately significant) level of force. I also try to improve my pedaling smoothness by shuffling the foot back at stroke bottom and to push the foot forward and over at stroke top.

It's become second nature to tip my foot into the pedal, and when I need to dismount the foot slips out easily, With loose straps and smooth shoes I've never fallen over at a stop light.

I've experimented with tightened straps and hard cleats, but I find that tight straps impede blood flow (painful feet), and the tightened cleat/strap sometimes feels like my foot could be trapped, which I don't like. But using the cleated/strapped on set up, my spin was really nice.

Today I"m mainly using platform/touring/track pedals (they've had all three generic names since the '70s when I first got my first Berthets) with integral toe clips: Campagnolo C-Record Strada, contemporary Campagnolo Chorus Strada, Shimano 600EX 6207, Shimano contemporary 105 pedals (mid-'80s for both Shimano pedals), MKS AM-1, and vintage steel Lyotard Berthet with standard toeclips added on. Plus a few cheaper Wellgo pedal sets all of a similar design to the C-Record Strada. Now I need to find a handfull of pairs of high-quality leather toestraps, to keep the fleet properly clothed.
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Old 07-12-18, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL View Post

thatís a good question and one I cant answer. I have a new in the box pair of riding shoes from 1985, more the touring style that have grooves in the soles that match a pair of Superbe pedals om my Ď85 Trek 760.
Those sound a lot like my all-time favorite cycling shoes, the Avocet Touring I and II. I wish someone would reissue clones of those. Right now I am using a pair of Giro touring shoes with nothing screwed into the cleat mounts, and they seem to serve well. I had to switch to size large toeclips because the shoes are a bit larger than those I have worn in the past, so I am back to minor toe-to-wheel overlap on the Peugeot.
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