Bike Forums - An American cycle tours in Europe, 16 December 1944

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cougrrcj (Post 21253233)

I have been thinking of a proper response to the OPs lashing out at Shelbyfv and myself for several days. Trying to find the right words. Writing is not my forte.

The OPs initial post is not the sort of writing one normally finds on a message forum. Very polished, professional writing. Without any further explanation or referencing made by the OP, the post could be taken to be a 'cut and paste' from a published writing.

WW2 history is a hobby of mine. I have an entire bookcase dedicated to WW2 history. The initial post would seem to indicate that much research had taken place, some of it being direct quoted conversation of those present at the time. Historical research takes time and effort. I get it.

Plagiarism stinks, and with the advent of instant 'knowledge' thanks to the Internet, many people will cut and paste from a copyrighted piece without citing the reference. By asking for a source, I merely wanted to make sure that the researcher and author get the credit that they deserve. I'm sure the OP would be justifiably outraged if someone were to 'steal' his work and post it somewhere without the proper attribution.

Now that I've explained myself (poorly, because I am not a writer) I hope that if the OP comes back to this thread, he will accept my explanation and my apology. No personal offense was intended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 21254454)

I enjoyed reading the OP story, indeed well written and I glossed over the subsequent brouhaha, until I read the last post by @Cougrrcj. I thought you expressed yourself well and no apology for your writing needed. I was once advised about presentations, don’t apologize; it can be distracting and evidential, and may not even be necessary.

I write many professional reports with significant medical and/or legal consequences, and I spend a lot of time polishing others writing. I read academic journals with precisely styled citations, and even add some formal citations to my reports. Indeed there is an citation service that counts the times that an article is cited as evidence of its importance.

Frankly though, on Bike Forums I really don’t expect such academic rigor, and I read it for the prima facie content.

However within the world of Bike Forums IMO a unique feature is the use of quote boxes (especially as citations) to link to other posts….FWIW

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cougrrcj (Post 21255049)

Hey now... I'm a Luddite. As in the Joe Walsh song states - 'I'm an analog man in a digital world'.

Hey, only got a 'smart phone' three years ago because my 85+-year old mother out in Phoenix didn't have internet access or a printer to print a boarding pass. All of this multi-quote stuff is waaaay above my head.

:foo:

So, @Cougrrcj,assuming this latter post is a reply to mine, it that an apology, or a boast?...Whatever.

Perhaps you did glean from my two posts were about multi-quoting, especially as a form of citation on Bike Forums, as you described in the “academic” world. FWIW

BTW,‘I'm not familiar with either Joe Walsh, or his song. How about a quote (or citation)? :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironwood (Post 21256698)

The story of Dr; Graves is interesting. He was one of the few cycling advocates during the dark ages of american cycling. Another advocate, on the East Coast, was also medical doctor, Paul Dudley White, one the leading American cardiologists of the fifties;

They knew something that most Americans of the time didn't. Sadly, there are a lot of our fellow citizens who still haven't got the message.

Now that you mention it, I do recall reading articles by Clifford Graves in Bicycling Magazine in its heyday, 1970s during that Golden Age Bicycling Boom.

Also,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 17756154)

Boston as a compact East Coast urban environment has a nice set of bikepaths that connect the downtown area through the midtown as it were, and out to the residential neighborhoods and inner suburbs, providing utilitarian byways for cycle commuting or recreation, though these paths are not completely connected.

These include:

the Paul Dudley White bikepath named for Dwight Eisenhower's personal cardiologist [after his heart attack as President] and an early advocate of exercise for cardiac fitness. It follows both sides of the Charles River (“Love that Dirty Water”), with scenic views of the Boston and Cambridge skylines.

the Southwest Corridor (Pierre Lallement) bike path through residential neighborhoods named for the inventor of the modern bicycle who died in Boston in obscurity, in the late 1800’s…

Started with a nice article. Took an interesting and unexpected turn. Very good thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 21256729)

Yes Jim - that multi-quoting is above my skill level

And at least I gave Joe Walsh the attribution for the quote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikemig (Post 21250986)

tcs thanks for posting this. It is a neat read.

A free pdf scanned copy of the entire book, Front Line Surgeons: A History of the Third Auxiliary Surgical Group by Clifford Lewis Graves can be downloaded at https://archive.org/download/FrontLi...neSurgeons.pdf Front Line Surgeons book

It is a large file at 194 MB and 401 pages. Running Acrobat's OCR Recognition on the downloaded file knocked the file size down to 74 MB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cougrrcj (Post 21255049)

Hey now... I'm a Luddite. As in the Joe Walsh song states - 'I'm an analog man in a digital world'.

Hey, only got a 'smart phone' three years ago because my 85+-year old mother out in Phoenix didn't have internet access or a printer to print a boarding pass. All of this multi-quote stuff is waaaay above my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 21256729)

So, @Cougrrcj,assuming this latter post is a reply to mine, it that an apology, or a boast?...Whatever.

Perhaps you did glean from my two posts were about multi-quoting, especially as a form of citation on Bike Forums, as you described in the “academic” world. FWIW

BTW,‘I'm not familiar with either Joe Walsh, or his song. How about a quote (or citation)? :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cougrrcj (Post 21257135)

Yes Jim - that multi-quoting is above my skill level

And at least I gave Joe Walsh the attribution for the quote....

Thanks for the reply, and while attributing Joe Walsh verbally, the video is a bona fide citation. :thumb: I asked my MIllennial son the musician, about Joe Walsh, and he had not heard of him either. Just yesterday my son showed me how to use Apple Music, though I was already handy with I-Tunes.

My musical tastes are Big Bands before 1950, and Golden Oldies mostly before 1980. I learned that my son, who when in High School performed ska music, also now likes Country Western, and used "Bone Dry" by George Jones to demonstrate Apple Music. Someday I want to write a rant to the Foo thread about the slow demise of Music The Standards AKA Great American Songbook” (link).

So talk about a musical Luddite. :50:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 21258028)

Thanks for the reply, and while attributing Joe Walsh verbally, the video is a bona fide citation. :thumb: I asked my MIllennial son the musician, about Joe Walsh, and he had not heard of him either.

Joe Walsh was with the Eagles from about 1973 or so. For sure by the Hotel California album. Before that, he was in the James Gang (Funk #49 was released 1970), etc...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cougrrcj (Post 21258039)

Joe Walsh was with the Eagles from about 1973 or so. For sure by the Hotel California album. Before that, he was in the James Gang (Funk #49 was released 1970), etc...

I certainly know and like the Eagles. As a ballroom dancer, "Take it to the Limit" is a favorite waltz tune, and as a cross country cyclist, in 1977. "Take it Easy" ran through my mind, as we descended our very first Mountain pass ever, in California:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 13976609)

The trip was back in May to June of 1977 on our honeymoon as we were moving from Michigan to Boston and managed a two-month hiatus from work. … within few miles turned inland past San Juan Capistrano and onto the Ortega Highway and our very first mountain pass ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Route 74 [Ortega Highway] between San Juan Capistrano and Lake Elsinore, due to its narrow width and high traffic volume, holds an ominous claim to fame as one of the most dangerous highways in the state.

:eek:

Thank you @tcs for sharing Dr. Graves' story. I had not heard of him before and the older I get the more interested I become in history.

It's too bad that a couple of folks accused you of plagiarism in the way that they did. As a photojournalist/editor who has had his work stolen repeatedly (i.e., The Story of a Photo (AKA Google ? Free) | johnmflores), this issue is close to me. There are better/more civil ways to approach issues of intellectual property than what was demonstrated here.

I hope you are not dissuaded and hope to see more of your contributions here in the future.

Interesting thread, for sure. Great story.

Well, that was a good story that became a discussion about Joe Walsh after a member got banned. It's also more than okay to comment on one thing at a time instead of rolling it all up in a ball. Seems an effective way to derail a thread. The topic the OP started with was great without all of that.

I'm glad that the cabin fever of the holiday season is over.

And keep writing. You don't have to be 'perfect' you just have to tell a good story. Thanks for sharing this story.