Yeah, my Imperial is awesome. Anyone know anything about the carbon C13?

My Brooks B17
 

My 30+ year old B17 was very comfortable until a few weeks back when one of the rails snapped while I was out on the trail! I'm only 5' 10", 175!

Although the saddle was awesome the leather is cracking and additional proofide isn't helping so I ordered a new one... (Actually I placed 3 different orders, but I have no confidence that the Amazon partner nor web bike shop will be able to deliver!). Even BrooksEngland claims many of the seats models are 'out of stock'. My B17 Special shipped today from from eBay!

I did try the Brooks Cambian C17 but it was just too hard, just like the saddle that came on my Fuji. Ugh! Even the Concor S Marco on my Gios isn't 'touring' comfortable.

I should have stopped looking after I placed the order because I then came across the Rivet Loveland... looks like a viable alternative!

Since I'm a new member I can't post the pictures of the leather condition. Maybe I'll consider fixing it myself in the future if I can order the parts. I'd like to upgrade to black rails and copper rivets but I don't think its worth paying someone $90+ to repair it for me.

I have used Brooks frames, rivets, etc. Let me know if I can help.

I know this is an old post, but I only just saw it.

First of all, regarding the idea of "irreversible damage" bear in mind that (1) pretty much ANYthing you do to leather is irreversible, and (2) what's "damage" is a matter of opinion.

What effect Proofide will have on leather depends a great deal on the condition of the leather before you start. I had a couple Brooks saddles I bought new 10-15 years ago, that I believe I ruined with too much Proofide. And it wasn't even very much Proofide. It could be the Proofide did thi damage, or it could be these were just dud saddles, the leather not treated properly at the factory... I don't know. But I connected the failure of the leather to the Proofide. Did the leather really fail? No, but it sure got too soft for my taste. I also have some older Brooks saddles that are hard as plywood, and Proofide has done nothing to them at all.

My advice, re any saddle, is figure out how to make it comfortable by adjusting the position of the saddle and the rider. Once it's properly set up, the rest will follow. There are ways to soften the leather, and there are ways to make it harder, and all of them will 'damage' the leather in some way.

Sounds like you've done a good job on that Toupe! I would say, don't circular it until you are convinced about the Brooks.

Best advice I’ve seen on Brooks saddles:

Brooks Pro

I followed it on my second Brooks and it works.

Cliff notes version: no proofhide, no oil, seal the underside, shoe polish the top

That's pretty unique, first time I've seen it, I think.

Yes, but I think it makes sense. Why add oil which breaks down the leather? Adding the damp rag to temporarily soften the saddle so it molds faster is also a great idea.
My newer saddle is about 18 months old, with 6,000+ miles on it and it looks brand new except for the dents for my sit bones. I also like that the polish keeps it slick.
YMMV

I agree it makes sense, but I'm reluctant to soak a new Brooks saddle in water. I have added oil to them - Proofide many years ago, other materials later, and now back to Proofide. That does not mean I am against the note from Bill Boston's site. So "YMMV" does not apply. But several experts on leather restoration and maintenance say leather needs its oils maintaned. The recommended amounts for a bike saddle are only clarified by Brooks, as far as I can see. At least one such experts is [MENTION=73614]rhm[/MENTION], here on BF and other forums.

On BF in the past we've had MANY discussions on "Brooks! What do I do?" and I have seen many people say they ruined their saddle. I have not seen that procedure before. I have not ruined one, so I think there is something wrong with the "anti-oil" point of view. Which is why I think if the corporate continuity of Brooks endorses a specific product, even if it's sold under their branding, I think it's most likely worth stucking with their product AND their recommended procedure. But I don't think it's the only good way, since quite few others have not had major problems. I've had used ones that sagged deeply as soon as I bmounted them and started riding, and I have two Team Pro selects of which one is too soft and the other too hard. Buying off ebay or even from List members can be a crap shoot. What I like are the older Brooks B17 Select for my wife's bikes, and a Brooks Swallow Select for trainer-riding. The Swallow started out hard as a rock due to its thickness (the Select leather) and its folding (the Swallow design), but it has a good shape and is starting to be a little resilient.

For my riding the biggest problems with a Brooks Pro and the B17s is the limited capability for setback, unless the seat tube is laid back at least to 70 degrees. The Swallow has the widest portion a few cm closer to the cantle compared to the others.

It does not say to soak it.
“The cloth should be damp but not so soaking wet that it drenches your bike. Then, just before you ride, take your thumbs and knead the area where your ischial bones will hit in order to start softening the leather. Ride an hour or two, with the washcloth OFF. ”
The saddle will get oils from your body, and like a nice pair of shoes, you just polish it

If those other choices work for you, great! But trust me, they don't work for me. And no, they don't take 500 miles to break in. I find them comfortable at mile 0.

It would seem like you are the exception rather than the rule then.

I also find them comfortable without any break-in.
They get more comfy as time goes by but I have never had an issue with them out of the box.
But not everyone is built the same way so...

Honestly, I doubt it. I've read quite a few posts and spoken to lots of riders who find them comfortable from day one. I realize this is a *highly* personal decision so there's likely to be a ton of riders who might refer to them as "ass hatchets."

:-)

I have a B17 and it's my 3rd Brooks saddle, all have been good from the beginning
never an issue

also, read what Brooks says about how much Proofide to use and how often. I don’t know what can go wrong using materials other than Proofide, but why not just use Proofide, if it’s all the same? Brooks recommends it, controls the formula, has done so for about 100 years, and still does.

if you poke around on their website you can find where they talk about “care” and download a print of a bit of the webpage.

Ok, I am corrected. I was mixing it up with a restoration procedure that was also recently shared with me.

It is because of the type of leather used.

Brooks use a thick vegetable-tanned leather. It is stiff (think boot sole leather). Chrome tanned leather is soft and flexible (clothing, upholstery)
This ability to hold its shape is property they want to use in the saddle design. They soak it in water, wet form it over a mould, then let it dry. It holds its shape.
This sets that out from 5m 9 sec

Chrome tanned leather does not do that.
In 'breaking-in" a new saddle, you need to mould it to suit your sit bones. This will happen with time and humidity from close contact when you sit on the saddle. The leather will reshape at the pressure points, until the weight is distributed evenly.
There are so many threads on this forum dealing with the use of various leather dressings and personal favourite treatments which are, in my opinion, not suitable for the type of leather used in this application.

You can get it to readily mould to your shape by oversoftening the leather with treatments designed for other applications, but that will irrevocably weaken the leather and it will no longer handle the tension required by the saddle design.
Brooks advise:I have been given a number of near-new saddles excessively treated with Proofide, and the then the leather stretched to the point where the tension bolt was at its limit. And it still sagged under the owners weight. His loss, my gain. I recovered it with new leather, 6mm vegetable tanned leather treated sparingly with Proofide.

Using a dampened cloth and then going for a short ride makes use of the wet forming capacity of vegetable-tanned leather. I have also suggested it.

But you need to use a saddle that has a chance of being comfortable. For this, you need to measure your sit bones and get a saddle that fits and is designed for your riding style. This is a useful guide. Then select the saddle from the Brooks range. And then treat it in accordance with the manufacturers advice, and not follow advice found on an online forum.

Seriously, what would an Australian know about riding a British saddle in North America?

Soaking the leather for an hour allows for it to be reshaped. Just don't put any weight on it or use the tension bolt when the leather is wet.
I have posted some notes to show the steps
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...reshaping.html