Brooks B17 Saddle...Seat In/Initial Review
 

I'm excited because after years of wondering?...I just ordered myself a Black/Steel B17 Standard Saddle this morning for my 2013 Specialized Crosstrail Disc.

I purchased and mounted a Specialized "Toupe" saddle several years ago and after numerous adjustments found it's "Sweet Spot" but even as such?....it's like riding with 3/16ths" of gel/foam padding between my butt and a rock and it will never "break-in" or improve.

I have high hopes this B17 will eventually (if not initially) prove to offer a higher level of comfort.

Well after watching some utoob reviews that order changed real quick...went with the "Imperial" (cut & laced) B17

Congrats on your purchase. I have been using Brooks saddle for the last 10 years (after two decades of scoffing them), and I love them. I have always ridden the regular B17, without any cutouts or such, and find it comfortable enough to go on fairly long rides without needing cycling shorts. These saddles can be very hard when new, and will remain hard over the first couple weeks of use. Then they soften up and form to your backside. If you have uneven sit bones or things like that, the B17 will adjust itself to fit. In time they become very comfortable.

I have never understood the appeal of Brooks. I have heard they can take 500 miles to break in and are absolute torture during that time. Why? There are other choices that just work.

Why Brooks? I've tried other saddles that were less comfortable than a B-17 after 500 miles (one of the reasons I tried the B-17). I've tried a saddle that was less comfortable than a B-17 when new, and it never got better. I've never found a saddle that was more comfortable after breaking in that a B-17, and I haven't found the break-in to be that onerous.

YAMV.

Wish I knew this thread was going to happen a couple weeks ago...I'd of taken a pic of the 1/2 dozen saddles I bought at the rate of about 1 a year that didn't work that I tossed in the round file cleaning out the garage and that's what started me thinking that maybe a saddle....

"That Has The Ability to Break-in"

might be better than all those that absolutely do not...ever.

Thanks for sharing that and a couple weeks of hard?....will be a walk in the park compared to a year of Romin followed by a year of Toupe! LOL!

Maybe. Maybe not. This one might end up in the "round file" with the rest. But there is certainly a almost cult-like following.

Well my first hand experience will begin in about a week and shortly after?...my suppositions will be put to rest forever...One way or another. :)

I certainly hope it works out for you. Good luck.

Sometimes a Brooks is comfy from the first ride. For, aft, and tilt make difference so have your multitool in your jersey pocket on the first few rides.

I think that's correct. The saddle should be adjusted fore and aft and tilt so that you don't tend to slide forward, which is no fun, but not so much that the nose of the saddle "goes for the goods." Minor adjustments can make a big difference.

Something else I read here recently is that not everyone rides with the same torso angle and that people who tend to bend above the pelvis conform better to a Brooks saddle while people who tend to lean their pelvis don't have as much contact between the saddle and the "sit bones." Understanding this issue is beyond my epertise, but I do know that I am a Brooks fan and that my riding position is such that I leave significant dimples in my saddles. For what that's worth.

Saddle width can also be important. A standard width B17 is fine for me, but a narrow B17 is much better and chafes less. And, it's not just a matter of butt size as someone can have a pretty broad butt without having a wide pelvis.

Other Brooks saddle shapes may be more or less to someone's liking. The Swift, for me, is very comfortable right away, but seems to change shape faster than a B17 and I'm not sure that's good. I've been putting a lot of miles on a Colt recenty and am pretty much convinced that it's too hard. After 25 to 30 miles it's giving me pains that the Swift and B17 (narrow or standard) just do not.

So, for those who don't get Brooks saddles, ride what suits you. Happy butts make for happy cycling.

I just got back from a casual evening ride to my daughters house and back with the above comments in mind and had to chuckle thinking about how many times I adjusted this current Toupe saddle until I got it to the highly refined position it's currently at where my seat angle is steep enough to be just shy of bobbling my boys yet shallow enough to support my sit bones without the sliding forward feeling.

Now mind you I'm on a Crosstrail Hybrid where my upper torso is only in the 25-30deg range...nose of my seat is tipped down maybe 3-5 degs and while tolerable?...it still rings of a rock with a thin layer of foam between.

That's a good choice. I have one and it's amazing how you can really fine tune it with the laces.

It first I was prepared for some serious misinformation, but to be honest, my Brooks did in fact take probably a good 500 miles to break in, and at least the first couple hundred miles of that were in fact torture.

The "why" is that after it finally breaks in it's amazing. I can't claim to have tried a very large and varied assortment of saddles, but I've ridden several conventional road bike saddles before the Brooks, and it smashes them all for long-endurance comfort. With the various discomforts we often deal with on long rides, it's great that the saddle is no longer one of them for me. If you've got non-Brooks style saddles that check that box for you, then you're all set. I'm a Brooks fanboy though. It's the saddle, though, not the company, and I've looked around at other leather saddles like Gilles Berthoud, but not tried any yet. When I've spent the time looking at these and thinking about it, I always end up just recognizing that nothing's broke and needs fixing.

Did you get that leather conditioning waxy/oily goop from Brooks as well? I slathered that on liberally several times when I first got it. All I can say is I'll be interested in hearing about your first ride on the Brooks. My first ride on it felt like I was straddling a concrete telephone poll. I've read others who thought it was comfortable from the first ride, but that wasn't my experience. I'm glad to say, though, that it eventually broke in or my body broke itself in over the Brooks or whatever it is that happens, and now it's the most comfortable saddle I've ever ridden. I'm a card-carrying member of the leather saddle cult.

I notice that the folks complaining about "Brooks torture" never specify which model of Brooks they're talking about, or say things like "I've heard that...". There's a huge difference between the different models of Brooks saddles so comments on one model are irrelevant to the others. For myself, I have owned several Brooks Pros in the past and felt that they never did break in and were somewhat of a torture device for long days in the saddle. I think this is largely because they were designed for "in the drops" racing, but many vintage bikes (racing, touring, otherwise) came with them as standard so they developed a reputation for uncomfortableness among those who were not racers. The B-17 on the other hand (and especially the Imperial) is a touring saddle, with softer, thinner leather (increasing its comfort but sadly resulting in it wearing out faster) and is worlds apart from the Pro.

I bought into the marketing BS of the foam-over-plastic saddle makers for many years, but could never get comfortable on long or multi-day rides, no matter what "high tech" saddle I bought. Then, I bought a B-17 Imperial a few years ago and was instantly more comfortable, with comfortableness improving over the next few weeks. Nowadays I don't even notice my saddle. I realize that not everyone will have this experience, and some may be more comfortable on a narrower B-17N, but I'm now a happy member of the B-17 "cult" (as is almost every long distance tourist I see on the Pacific Coast Highway).

I never wore one out and have had three B-17s and one now with springs on a Trek Verve+2. The +2 has no suspension and I was going to do a lot of shopping and such so decided to get the sprung saddle. All my bikes will eventually have Brooks saddles. One is a folder and I have one beater bike that is a lower priced mountain bike with only a front suspension fork. I have plans to go Electric powered on my old Trek 520 with 6000+ miles on it. It will need the B-17 to stay on it with a high powered bike. Safety and Be Well, Bluesfrog.

"I've heard that..."

I remember a quote from somewhere.."..some people live their lives based on what they've heard.."

I jumped into Brooks saddles last year. I picked up a few..a std B17, one B17 Imperial, one C17 carved.

All of them were the most comfortable saddles I've come across, right out of the box. The least comfortable is the C17, though with a sight nose-down attitude it's still very good. The leather ones are wonderful.

The previous most-comfortable saddle was a Selle TRK. I have wide sit-bones(141mm). The Selle was 155mm wide, the Brooks are 165-ish(?).

My B17 Imperial Arrived!
 

and I couldn't help but chuckle when I unboxed it as I thought of all the comments regarding how hard a Brooks Saddle is and dang if I'm absolutely convinced they are cause mine was hard as a rock...for about the first 30 minutes...and now I'll explain.

First let me say I have a modest amount of experience and knowledge about leather and I don't know if it's how Brooks pressure molds their leather or maybe the dying process but the leather was like a camel 10 days out from the last oasis and drier than dry which?...is why it was so dang hard...almost like petrified leather! LOL!

As I unlaced the unit (so I could gain full access to it's oh so dry underside) and began to squeeze out the stingy amount of Proofide?...I gasped as before I could spread it over all the underside surface?...the dry leather drank it up like pouring water on sand!

Luckily?...I know a little something about leather especially the high dollar stuff like my Ledrie Saddle Bags that came with a product much like Proofide called "Ledrie Leather Grease" which is used for waterproofing their expensive leather saddlebags and this Brooks saddle drank up about 1/4 can of it along with the Proofide.

The only way water can damage leather is if the leather has been left in a state that allows it to ABSORB the water...which is why I continued to slather on the conditioner (massaging it in) until it reached what seemed to be a "Saturation Point" and by the time I did my fancy two-tone lacing job?...even the final thin film of conditioner that resisted absorption had all but saturated into the saddles leather underside...but it will need repeated application as the conditioner migrates deeper into the leather.

It was because of ^^THE ABOVE"^^ that I shook my head thinking (re: knowing) that Brooks probably gets a bad rap with all these "Rock Hard Saddle" & "Painfully Long Break-in" comments because of the sparse amount of Proofide Conditioner they initailly supply and then add in a light body weight rider?...and yep....there's a killer recipe for poor reviews.

Profile Wise?: There's a couple pix of my size155 Specialized "Toupe" saddle sitting on top of my conditioned and tightly laced B17 and is eclipsing the Brooks in a nearly "Line-On-Line" fashion (perimeter wise)

A short ride proved that even brand new out of the box and tightly laced?...my 200lb butt says the B17 Imperial offered up a cushier ride over surface irregularities as compared to the Toupe saddle it replaced (despite zero break-in)

But?...the big take-away I got from the short first ride?...came when it was time to "DISMOUNT"....where the Full Bodied, Smooth Leather B17 didn't even think about snagging my clothing as I able to executed very smooth dismount and this alone was worth the price of admission because my Toupe Saddle?...not only had thin outer edges but it has these winged cusps that roll downward in a "HOOK YOUR SHORTS" fashion at the saddles widest point which always caused me anxiety and some very ungraceful dismounts...thanks to the B17's full body contour?...those days are over.

There's some poix of those Hooked Cusps I speak of on the toupe but bottom line?...I love the B17 and it ain't even broke-in at all yet...my only regret?...I should of bought one long ago! :)https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b379ce57b2.jpg
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Hope it works out. One of the surest ways to kill a Brooks saddle is too much conditioner or the wrong kind. You have the right kind..but..

Do some research on BF about such things..

There was a survey of equipment choices used by RUSA riders in the 2007 Paris Brest Paris ride. A very large percentage of them used http://postrestant.co.uk/wp-content/...quipsurvey.pdf

It'll be fine but thanks for the concern.

I used to think the same thing. I always thought Brooks saddles were for middle-age cycle tourists who still used panniers, toe clips, and straps. Then I started using one. I saw the light.

I resemble that remark. :)

The late great Sheldon Brown had this to say about Brooks (and other suspended leather) saddles:

He has more to say here: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html

Maybe you could help me out here?...because your comment did cause me enough concern to do the research you suggested and I can't find a single instance of to much leather conditioner destroying a Brooks saddle....even on google...even adding keywords like "Deformed" "Treatment" "Failure" "Lost Shape"...all I did find was a couple of instances of folks leaving them out in sudden rainstorms...and then advice on how to process the shape back into the leather and recover a damaged saddle.

Got any links to these Brooks saddles that died from to much conditioner?

I've read about it a number of times here on BF(part of my own pre & post-purchase of Brooks saddles). Did you search all the sub-forums here on BF? The search engine isn't the greatest. What you search and how you search, and whether searching the entire thread or just thread titles makes a big difference in the hits you get. I tend to do extensive research and check all options when looking into something...which is why I seldom create a new thread, as most everything has been discussed before.

In any event, it's sort of a moot point as you can't un-ring a bell. You've slathered yours up extensively already.

So you have no links to support your statements?...honestly I didn't figure you would cause like I said I do know a few things about leather and the only damage "Over-Conditioning" might cause (if such a thing were possible) would be stained clothing but it most certainly would never cause harm to leather.

Now I have a link by the fellow mentioned named "Sheldon Brown" and here's what he has to say about...

Breaking in a Leather Saddle

If a leather saddle is not oiled, and especially if it is allowed to get wet with water repeatedly, perhaps even ridden while soaked, it will eventually crack and disintegrate. The low-quality leather saddles that came on inexpensive ten-speeds of the sixties and seventies would also often go out of shape under such conditions.

https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/lexol.jpgThe easiest and fastest method to break in a new saddle is with a liquid leather dressing, such as neats-foot oil, Lexol, seal oil (a French favorite) or baseball glove oil.. These products are available from shoe stores and sporting-goods stores, and over the Internet. There are probably lots of other liquid oils that would work as well. Race Across America pioneer Lon Haldeman uses SAE 30 motor oil, but his saddles tend to wear out after only 300,000 miles or so (according to Cyclist magazine).

You can just pour the oil on and rub it in by hand, or for a more drastic approach, you can actually soak the saddle. The easiest way to soak a saddle is to turn it upside-down on a sheet of aluminum foil, then form the foil up around the saddle for a snug fit. Pour in a whole 4-ounce can of neats-foot oil or whatever oil you prefer, and let the saddle soak for 30 minutes to an hour. Pour the remaining oil back into the can, and wipe the excess oil off with a rag or paper towel. Install the saddle onto the bike, put on your black shorts, and ride. Even the most recalcitrant saddle (the thick-skinned Brooks Professional) will be substantially broken in within 200 miles or so.

The soaking technique is best for thick, hard-to-break in saddles such as the Brooks Professional. For most leather saddles, the pour-and-rub technique is adequate. A saddle needs baptism by immersion only once. After that, some oil should be poured onto the saddle and rubbed in by hand every few weeks. Once the saddle has become soft and comfortable, it is only necessary to oil it lightly every few months to keep it from drying out.

https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/proofridebig.jpgPaste- or wax-type leather dressings, such as Brooks Proofide, Sno-Seal, and saddle soap will work, but it takes much, much longer to break in a saddle that way. They will absorb faster into the leather if it is warm -- in the sun on a hot day, or in a warm oven. Temperatures up to about 50° C (120° F) are safe. Higher temperatures can cook and ruin the leather.

Here's the link...https://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html

I did pretty much the same thing OP did when I first got the saddle, ie: slathering it on, letting it all soak in, slathering on some more, etc. till it stopped soaking in in a reasonable time in a warm environment. Every few hundred miles I would slather on some more.

Then I read that this wasn't encouraged, for some vaguely described notion that if the leather got too soft it would stretch out too much. So, I've stopped putting new Proofide on for now, and I'll just have to decide at some point when it might be a good idea to put on some more. That being said, I did what I did, and so far over several thousand miles it doesn't seem to have done any harm.

edited to add:

This is what Brooks says on the subject.
A new saddle should be treated with Brooks Proofide leather dressing to help assist the breaking-in process. Proofide keeps the leather supple as it is specially formulated from natural ingredients to condition, preserve and shower proof your saddle. Proofide is the only substance that should be used to care for your Brooks Leather Saddle. Apply a little Proofide to the finished side of the leather. Allow the Proofide to permeate until dry and then polish off. Proofide should be used several times during the ‘breaking-in’ period and every 3-6 months thereafter. On bicycles not fitted with mudguards, an initial application to the underside of the saddle will be beneficial, this needs not to be polished off. The leather gets its colour during the tanning process and it is possible, therefore, that some colour residues will remain. It is recommended to polish the saddle with a soft cloth before first use.