dmanthree

Something you put on cube steak to make it taste like, well, something. Truthfully, the stuff is garbage.

Biker395 

It has an interesting history.

https://www.mashed.com/243666/the-un...-of-a-1-sauce/

terrymorse 

Sounds like something a meat eater would say.

Alan K

And he or she would be correct! 😉

rsbob 

Like total baloney? Or other processed meats?

PeteHski

How about paying attention to real science? I would say that someone with a Masters degree in nutritional science would give better advice on nutrition than a YouTuber, TV presenter or even Wolfchild.

PeteHski

Ah, ok that explains why I have never heard of it (phased out of UK market in the 70s).

Biker395 

Still in shelves here in the US, though I have no idea why. Ugh.

Alan K

That would be no different that eating a veggie burger… processed veggies!

Not every meat eater cares to eat processed meat. Here’s my dinner from last night after a nice ~18 mile ride:




A single lamb chop grilled to perfection, with grilled vegetables and a plate of salad (not in the photo) with fresh squeezed lime juice (no goopy junk from bottles that are found in most grocery stores). 😋

And no, we do not eat meat everyday, about 2-3 meals a week is average and always in moderation.

Alan K

I didn’t mean to turn this thread into food thread… come to think of it, it is a food thread. 😉
Some times pictures do better job than words.

terrymorse 

Comparing processed meats to "processed" veggies? When it comes to health, there's no comparison.

Red meat is associated with increased health risks, full stop. Processed meat is worse.

A simple "make at home" recipe for veggie burgers, from Johns Hopkins Medicine:

Ingredients

• 5 cups rolled oats
• 1 medium bell pepper, chopped
• 1 cup shredded carrots
• 2 Tbsp vegetable oil
• 1 Tbsp canned diced jalapeno peppers
• 2 garlic cloves, peeled
• 1 tsp ground cumin
• 1 tsp ground coriander
• ¾ tsp Spanish paprika
• ⅛ tsp kosher salt
• ½ tsp ground black pepper
• 2 cans black beans, rinsed and drained
• 6 hamburger buns

Directions

1. Preheat oven to 300 degrees F.
2. Line a large baking pan with parchment paper. Set aside.
3. In the bowl of a food processor, place all the ingredients except the black beans. Pulse for 20 seconds, scraping down the sides of the bowl as necessary until the ingredients are finely chopped but still have some texture.
4. Add all but 1 cup of beans and continue to pulse for 30–60 seconds until the beans start to break down and the ingredients begin to hold together. Transfer mixture to a mixing bowl.
5. Add remaining beans, and stir by hand. Form mixture into 7-ounce patties, and place on prepared baking sheet.
6. Bake for 40 to 45 minutes or until edges become crisp and patties start to hold together. Allow patties to cool on baking sheet for 10 minutes.

Nutrition facts per one 200-gram patty: 230 calories, 36 grams of carbohydrates (including 11 grams of fiber), 10 grams of protein, 6 grams of fat.

MinnMan

Still not sure how vegans get around the B-12 deficiency problem. I think they have decided that it's ok to consume yeast, as it's not actually in the Animal kingdom?

MinnMan

If it works for you, so be it, but keep track of potential vitamin deficiencies (e.g., vitamin D, B-12, etc.) when you have your annual blood work done. As compared to naturally vitamin-rich foods, the absorption of vitamins from pills is very inefficient, and just swallowing the recommended daily allowances (or even multiples thereof) doesn't guarantee that you are getting the needed benefit.

Alan K

Most vegans who start the practice under the influence of one of their friends or a bout with a life-altering episode of illness, and if they last longer than a year on vegan diet, they learn that chemistry isn’t after all their enemy. They start taking vitamin supplements… it’s just that I personally enjoy the very tasty bounty nature provides. As you can imagine, a multivitamin pill or a vitamin B12 pill isn’t going to taste nearly as delicious as a piece of meat straight out of charcoal grill. 😋😉

Alan K

Interesting recipe!
I will probably like it, and love it if I am famished (everything tastes good when you are hungry).

Now for a bit of very simple math on nutrition.

A healthy and active person consumes about 2500 calories per day, at least. Let’s for the sake of simplicity in calculations, say 2,300 calories would suffice. A person consuming a diet based on your recipe will need to eat equivalent of 2 kg of this material (we are not ruminants or nature would structure our jaws and teeth differently. This 2 kg would contain 260 gm of digestible carbohydrates and 60 gm of fat. Compare these numbers with my dinner, about 5-6 oz of meat with bone, prior to grilling, with no visible fat. Grilled vegetables, green salad with herbs and lime. Who would be at a higher risk of diabetes, clogged arteries etc.
And not to mention the all important obvious difference in deliciousness. 😉
[I do eat a lot of veggies, lentils/legumes, beans and grains but never had the inclination to delude myself that they are meatloaf or hamburgers. 😁]
By the way, I’m not trying to convince you to start eating meat, just so you know. I have many vegan and vegetarian friends, it is either like a religion to them or literally part of their religion. No counterpoint will ever be enough, regardless of rationale.

MinnMan

It's not so simple. The vitamin B12 (cobolamin) in vitamin supplements (as well as in fortified foods) is not synthesized from inorganic reagents. Rather, it generally comes from various sources, including potentially animal products. Consequently, not all vitamin supplements are necessarily vegan. However, "vegan" vitamins (and many others) typically get their B12 from nutritional yeast. As yeast belongs to the Fungus kingdom, rather than Animal, I believe that vegans have decided that it is OK.

wolfchild

In order for nutritional yeast to have vitamin B12 it has to fortified with artificial vitamin B12.... personally I prefer getting my daily dose of B12 from foods such as meat, kefir, yogurt, eggs and milk.

Alan K

If you start looking at things objectively, you often encounter inconsistencies in most things that are based on a belief system. Yeast, bacteria and fungi are all living, as far as the biology goes, and so are plants. Virus lie in a questionable realm of their own - their life cycle relies on another living cell. Some consider them as living, others do not.
I do not know where the line is set by our contemporary vegans at this point. But I fully understand personal choices made by others for themselves. For example, my wife has a relatively limited things she would eat in the seafood category compared to I.

There are, if I recall correctly, a couple of varieties of bacteria in our own guts that make Vitamin B12 but nature being trickster some times, these bacteria inhabit out lower gut. The absorption of vitamins and most nutrients occurs in small intestine. But there is symbiotic relationship with bacteria in our gut and they do a lot of good for us - hence, killing them via broad spectrum antibiotics with every minor ailment has never been in our best interest. But Pharma has been fine with the practice. 😉

Alan K

[QUOTE] It's not so simple. The vitamin B12 (cobolamin) in vitamin supplements (as well as in fortified foods) is not synthesized from inorganic reagents. [/QUOTE]

Non of the complex organic molecules are synthesized from inorganic compounds, which is true for cyanocobalamin as well.

Depending on the structure of organic compound, one begins with a precursor compound either already present in nature (plant, bacteria, fungi etc) or produced synthetically, and make suitable alterations in its structure to produce the final product. Preference is given to the method that does the job simply and cheaply.
Cost considerations have led our chemical industry, like all other US industries, to become entirely dependent on China to provide all precursor compounds for pharmaceuticals - a self-destructive and very short-sighted policy from the perspective of whole society but a small segment of it benefits greatly so it goes on…

MinnMan

I agree. The purely vegan idea gets kind of murky if examined very closely. Even plants themselves might be grown from soil fertilized with animal products (bone meal, manure).

MinnMan

This is an interesting point. And the original source of "artificial" B12 could be an animal product.

OK, we are pretty far from chocolate now, aren't we....

Alan K

I have known many vegetarians and some vegans, including one of my sister-in-laws. They all seem to draw their own lines. In my opinion, bulk of it has little to do sound logic or science. My sister-in-law became a vegan several years ago and she based her living practices on some enlightened person who had written a few books and one her own close friends. When I was spoke to her, I couldn’t help but point out a few things to monitor but human nature being what it is, she carried on with her vegan practices. I saw her about six months later and she was truly puzzled that lately, she is loosing a lot of hair and many expensive concoctions that are for rubbing or spraying on her scalp aren’t working for her. I was finally able to have her reevaluate her strategy and correct the root (no pun intended) cause of the problem. It took her about 3-4 months after adding eggs to her vegan diet to see obvious improvements. [If a diet is limited in one or more essential amino acids, hair follicles would start failing to synthesize hair at normal pace and start becoming dormant, and finally dying. There would be numerous systemic issues not so overtly obvious but present.

Decades ago scientists learned that it is not easy to a create an animal model for vitamin Vitamin B12 research, usually mice and rats. I knew this scientist from Japan who said that even after giving entirely Vitamin B12 free diet for several months, his animals became slightly low but never deficient in Vitamin B12. Then he learned that the instinct to eat their droppings kicks in as a consequence of reduced level of B12, which is excreted in feces. He placed these animals in cages with wire mash at the bottom and problem was solved. Thankfully for our vegan friends, such measures would never apply. No one is studying B12 deficiency in humans…. unless, being a vegan is a fiendish plot of some scientists, and a study is already in progress. 😉

Alan K

Please provide a link to a scientific publication you consider sufficiently credible to support your assertion with full stop.

Interesting thing about science is that there is rarely, if ever a full stop. A scientist must always test and re-test previous hypothesis for their validity as and when new methods for assessment become available.

I do understand your comment, a product of our times… we have seen a good bit of it from our own Mr. Science during the Corona virus fiasco.

As for Johns Hopkins or any institute for that matter, which advocates you eat canned food - I would think again! Remember all cans are lined with Bisphenol A (BPA), which isn’t fit for human consumption. If you do not have time to cook beans, make them in large quantity on free day and freeze them in meal size portions. If canning is important, use glass jars - never metal cans lined with plastic of any sort.

Alan K

Yes, true enough!

Teuscher chocolate, here I come. 😋

terrymorse 

When conclusions of multiple studies are inconsistent, a review and meta-analysis is often useful:

Consumption of red meat and processed meat and cancer incidence: a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies

"...This comprehensive systematic review and meta-analysis study showed that high red meat intake was positively associated with risk of breast cancer, endometrial cancer, colorectal cancer, colon cancer, rectal cancer, lung cancer, and hepatocellular carcinoma, and high processed meat intake was positively associated with risk of breast, colorectal, colon, rectal, and lung cancers."

-- Farvid MS, Sidahmed E, Spence ND, Mante Angua K, Rosner BA, Barnett JB. Consumption of red meat and processed meat and cancer incidence: a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies. Eur J Epidemiol. 2021 Sep;36(9):937-951. doi: 10.1007/s10654-021-00741-9. Epub 2021 Aug 29. PMID: 34455534.