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Nutrition before riding

Old 12-23-23, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
For what it’s worth I rarely use margarine for anything. I usually scramble my eggs and put them in low carb tortillas with crumbled Jimmy Dean turkey sausage. Add a little Pace picante and have really good breakfast taquitos. I don’t eat that every morning though. Some days it’s a tomato sandwich on Sola keto bread with Miracle Whip and a salad for lunch.
If I fry eggs or anything else I use olive oil. I don’t use flour. I make chicken breast or salmon or whatever in my air fryer. I have air fried zucchini chips.
I eat healthy most of the time but I also like bbq. I figure it will even out in the end.
My dr and cardiologist are happy with my. The weight loss and very good lipid panels and ither blood tests tells us I am doing something correct.
Probably most of my issues cycling are from being out of shape. I stopped playing softball at age 50. It was fun but 50 is just too old to stand at 3rd base.
I tend to start topics here because I don’t have anyone around to ask questions or check things out. This forum for me is like a garage bull***t session.
I can tell a lot of y’all are much more serious riders than I am. I am more recreational.
I wouldn’t overthink it at this stage. Your initial idea of a banana an hour or two before your ride was actually pretty sound. But it is best not to eat carbs within an hour of the start of your exercise to avoid blood sugar spikes. Although I doubt it’s too critical with 1 small banana!
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Old 12-24-23, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
There is nothing bad about dairy fat...Dairy fat is actually very healthy for you. Humans have been eating dairy for the past 8000 years..
You can do a lot of things when your life expectancy is 25 years, plus/minus 10, like it was 8,000 years ago! It is a stretch to say Butter is as healthy as Olive Oil.
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Old 12-24-23, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
I stopped playing softball at age 50. It was fun but 50 is just too old to stand at 3rd base.
I tend to start topics here because I don’t have anyone around to ask questions or check things out.
Yes. I quit softball in my early 40s for similar reasons. Switched to table tennis. Everybody hits in slow pitch. Getting injured was beginning to seem inevitable. I didn't want to limp into my later years from a softball injury. Of course cycling has its risks too. What are ya gonna do?
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Old 12-24-23, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
You can do a lot of things when your life expectancy is 25 years, plus/minus 10, like it was 8,000 years ago! It is a stretch to say Butter is as healthy as Olive Oil.
Similarly, you could do lots of things when you were constantly either hunting, foraging or working to get food and constant activity and caloric scarcity had people typically lean and a bit hungry. Historically, people adapted to all kinds of diets and situation. So a lot of what's good for you individually has to do with which gene package you ended up with - and whether you stay active or not.

Life expectancy figures are averages and can be misleading. They're calculated from birth and are heavily skewed by things like high infant and child mortality rates and high rates of death from infection and accident. If you escaped those tragedies early on, it wasn't at all uncommon to live into your 60s or 70s without the aid of modern medicines. Contemporary hunter gatherer populations have very little obesity, metabolic or cardiovascular disease. Their metabolic health is generally quite good. No surprise. They don't have Twinkies and refrigerators and they spend nearly two hours a day doing moderate to vigorous activity. So they are fit.
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Old 12-24-23, 02:31 PM
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I didn't read this whole long thread and maybe this has been covered, but you don't need to eat anything before what should only be a hour's ride. I take a water bottle on rides like that but seldom even need that. The whole point of losing weight is to go calorie negative. You need to increase your muscles ability to burn fat. Riding without food for up to 2 hours will help that along. As far as weight loss goes, an even better way to teach your body fat burning is to ride for 4 hours. It really doesn't matter what you eat on a long ride like that as long as you only eat to keep your energy up, small quantities say every 1/2 hour. Carbs work great for that.

"Fat burns in a carbohydrate flame." Riding slow because you don't have any energy is not a better solution. Not eating any or very few carbs ruins your bodies ability to burn them rapidly. Your body is simply a trainable chemical factory. It does what you teach it to do. I can tell exactly when I get low on carbs - I start to go slower for the same apparent effort. You stay just above that level and you'll burn lots of fat.

Listen to terrymorse. He' knows what he's talking about. We've been fooling around with this stuff for a long time.
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Old 12-24-23, 03:23 PM
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It should be noted that @Carbonfiberboy is like, 187 years old and can lift his body weight in pounds with one hand while riding his age in miles ... twice a week. He was actually alive 8000 years ago, so he knows about all that.

Seriously, the guy is much more fit than most college athletes and about three-and-a-half times their ages. I wouldn't follow his exercise routines ( I would die immediately) but I will take his advice.
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Old 12-24-23, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I didn't read this whole long thread and maybe this has been covered, but you don't need to eat anything before what should only be a hour's ride. I take a water bottle on rides like that but seldom even need that. The whole point of losing weight is to go calorie negative. You need to increase your muscles ability to burn fat. Riding without food for up to 2 hours will help that along. As far as weight loss goes, an even better way to teach your body fat burning is to ride for 4 hours. It really doesn't matter what you eat on a long ride like that as long as you only eat to keep your energy up, small quantities say every 1/2 hour. Carbs work great for that.

"Fat burns in a carbohydrate flame." Riding slow because you don't have any energy is not a better solution. Not eating any or very few carbs ruins your bodies ability to burn them rapidly. Your body is simply a trainable chemical factory. It does what you teach it to do. I can tell exactly when I get low on carbs - I start to go slower for the same apparent effort. You stay just above that level and you'll burn lots of fat.

Listen to terrymorse. He' knows what he's talking about. We've been fooling around with this stuff for a long time.
Well stated, especially that last paragraph

One thing I’d add: you don’t have to do long slow distance rides to train your body to become better at burning fat. A lot of “good things” happen at higher intensities.
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Old 12-25-23, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse

One thing I’d add: you don’t have to do long slow distance rides to train your body to become better at burning fat. A lot of “good things” happen at higher intensities.
But what if I enjoy spending 4 - 5 hours on my bike bike doing long slow distance ?. No reason to stop what i enjoy. I don't ride my bike to loose weight because I have always maintained healthy bodyweight and I am lean enough. I use weight training and kettlebell training and diet to maintain healthy bodyweight, lean body and to preserve muscle... My bike rides are done for enjoyment and because I really believe that there are many health benefits to riding in Zone 2. I will just continue to do what has worked for me.
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Old 12-25-23, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
Well stated, especially that last paragraph

One thing I’d add: you don’t have to do long slow distance rides to train your body to become better at burning fat. A lot of “good things” happen at higher intensities.
THat last paragraph: very true. I never ride long slow distance. Boring and limited results. It's been my practice to TT long rides - to do them in the least possible time, for me. The way to do that is to ride moderate between hills and then ride each hill at the max pace you can hold for the length of that hill. So short hills take full gas, longer hills Z4, multi thousand feet, Z3. I like to see about 45' of Z4 in a 4-5 hour ride. I don't normally do training rides longer than 5 hours because I won't be able to keep that level of effort up for longer, and thus they are not as good for endurance training, like Terry is saying. That said, If I'm going to do a long event ride, I'll usually do 1 or 2 simulation rides to check out my pacing. I did sled 550 last week. Trying to get it back.
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Old 12-27-23, 09:43 AM
  #110  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I didn't read this whole long thread and maybe this has been covered, but you don't need to eat anything before what should only be a hour's ride. I take a water bottle on rides like that but seldom even need that. The whole point of losing weight is to go calorie negative. You need to increase your muscles ability to burn fat. Riding without food for up to 2 hours will help that along. As far as weight loss goes, an even better way to teach your body fat burning is to ride for 4 hours. It really doesn't matter what you eat on a long ride like that as long as you only eat to keep your energy up, small quantities say every 1/2 hour. Carbs work great for that.

"Fat burns in a carbohydrate flame." Riding slow because you don't have any energy is not a better solution. Not eating any or very few carbs ruins your bodies ability to burn them rapidly. Your body is simply a trainable chemical factory. It does what you teach it to do. I can tell exactly when I get low on carbs - I start to go slower for the same apparent effort. You stay just above that level and you'll burn lots of fat.
Listen to terrymorse. He' knows what he's talking about. We've been fooling around with this stuff for a long time. .[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by terrymorse
Well stated, especially that last paragraph
One thing I’d add: you don’t have to do long slow distance rides to train your body to become better at burning fat. A lot of “good things” happen at higher intensities.
Been away for quite some time, and not reading everything in between...
so not sure if this has been mentioned... Body's main source of immediate energy is Glycogen, stored and ready. For most, their bodies have about 3 hrs supply (give or take depending on genetics and the work 'intensity') for a period of quite high intensity of efforts... Body fats figure much lower in the energy source because it's 'metabolism' is more difficult than carbs (which goes to glycogen easily).
If you're intent on losing weight, using any exercise and for an honest 2 hour hard effort, adding some further energy source will only reduce body fat burning. Since 2 hrs is my usual ride effort - when solo - then I almost never have any extra consumption. Sometimes on a quite hard group ride (with lots of climbing or hard tempo efforts) I'll have a gel at about 2/3 of the expected ride route.
I never do anything in the form of 'exercise' for less than 1 hour, and even 1 hour is too short... Short for me is 1 1/2 hr. This will vary for others...
Resist that energy bar, resist that PB & J sandwich (besides Peanut Butter is upside-down nutrition - tastes good - but tough to metabolize) .
from healthline.cim:
A 3.5-ounce (100-gram) portion of peanut butter contains ( 4 ): Carbohydrates: 22 grams of carbs (14% of calories), 5 of which are fiber. Protein: 22.5 grams of protein (14% of calories), which is quite a lot compared with most other plant foods.!!!! Fat: 51 grams of fat !!!!, totaling about 72% of calories !!!!!.
also
LSD is intended to be Zone 3 effort - for me that's now 130 ish to 145 ish heart rate.
A chest belt based simple heart rate monitor is a great way to be honest with yourself - and can be had for very low cost - Wahoo Tickr , or similar, which work with many different free cell phone apps - most of us have a cell phone which can do this. No need to be glued to the cell while riding. Apps will record the HR and present a graph for after ride review, at which point you can 'judge' your own effort and how you perceived it, and then honestly adjust your effort or your perception....
that said, riding a bike is a singular thing, even in a group. It's your ride, do with it what you want. Tyr to make every ride, 'Your Best Ride", however you define that.
Sometimes it's it's extended sweat dripping off your nose, and sometimes it might be being joyful to be out in our wonderful world and being a part of it.
Ride On
Yuri
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Old 12-29-23, 03:39 AM
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Appreciate Your Self , just as you are, for the fact "THAT I Exist". Without this, what does it matter what you weigh, how you look, how you live ? Withour Love, what does any of that matter, just going through the rote motions. "Get happy", just because, because "I Exist". Without which, well there is no without. There is no denying or escaping this, nor any need to, and reason to .... "I Exist because I Exist !!!"

What you eat doesn't matter, as if that will make you or give that which you already IS. "Wonder-full".
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Old 12-29-23, 10:06 AM
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tying a bit more into this whole idea of 'ride nutrition', 1 hour is really a short period for physical effort (short of all out/'competition' level effort, which is NOT the point of discussion here in).
level of effort is important, when relating to 'nutrition in-effort'.
And I like to think of 'LSD" as 'Long Steady Distance', not Long Slow Distance. It's an effort which has you able to have short conversation, but still breathing heavily, steady, without panting, deep breaths, especially nasal breathing.
'Warmup' and 'cooldown' are essential elements of this as well. A 20 mi ride should have al least 2 mi warmup and 1 of cooldown.
Resist Post-ride food, snack, calories
There is a period of 'afterburn', directly after some physical effort, during which the body continues to slowly wind down fueling intensity. it's also a time when the body is more than happy to take in nutrition given and store it (as fat).
There is difference between 1 hr of moderate effort and much higher efforts for more extended time periods - so post-ride supplement for hard/longer efforts can aid recovery - But distinguish between 'Very Hard' and 'Moderate' efforts.
Hydration is always a good thing, any excess the body will advise you and handle... I usually try to drink half a 20 oz water bottle for a 25 - 30 ish miler (in moderate weather, more depending on temp and humidity)>
What you eat is important ! For EVERYTHING ! Your Mental state as well as your physical one (since they really are elements, one in the same, of yourself).
What/how/when you eat is one of the most consistently important things you do your entire life.
Ride On
Yuri

Last edited by cyclezen; 12-29-23 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 12-29-23, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclezen
tying a bit more into this whole idea of 'ride nutrition', 1 hour is really a short period for physical effort (short of all out/'competition' level effort, which is NOT the point of discussion here in).
level of effort is important, when relating to 'nutrition in-effort'.
And I like to think of 'LSD" as 'Long Steady Distance', not Long Slow Distance. It's an effort which has you able to have short conversation, but still breathing heavily, steady, without panting, deep breaths, especially nasal breathing.
'Warmup' and 'cooldown' are essential elements of this as well. A 20 mi ride should have al least 2 mi warmup and 1 of cooldown.
Resist Post-ride food, snack, calories
There is a period of 'afterburn', directly after some physical effort, during which the body continues to slowly wind down fueling intensity. it's also a time when the body is more than happy to take in nutrition given and store it (as fat).
There is difference between 1 hr of moderate effort and much higher efforts for more extended time periods - so post-ride supplement for hard/longer efforts can aid recovery - But distinguish between 'Very Hard' and 'Moderate' efforts.
Hydration is always a good thing, any excess the body will advise you and handle... I usually try to drink half a 20 oz water bottle for a 25 - 30 ish miler (in moderate weather, more depending on temp and humidity)>
What you eat is important ! For EVERYTHING ! Your Mental state as well as your physical one (since they really are elements, one in the same, of yourself).
What/how/when you eat is one of the most consistently important things you do your entire life.
Ride On
Yuri
Thank you Yuri. You and others have given me a lot of useful information.
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Old 12-29-23, 06:29 PM
  #114  
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I’ve decided to stop eating “all natural’” Scratch Labs energy bars on the bike and instead eat Cinnamon Pop Tarts. Carbs, sugar, lots of fat and mystery chemicals. Mo powa!
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Old 12-29-23, 07:06 PM
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My 100 Mile Breakfast. Also works for shorter rides. 2 Cups Coffee.

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Old 12-29-23, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
I’ve decided to stop eating “all natural’” Scratch Labs energy bars on the bike and instead eat Cinnamon Pop Tarts. Carbs, sugar, lots of fat and mystery chemicals. Mo powa!
Fig bars.
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Old 12-30-23, 07:36 PM
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Today’s mid-ride (Ya I know the thread is on pre-) break was a scone and a cappuccino
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Old 12-30-23, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
Today’s mid-ride (Ya I know the thread is on pre-) break was a scone and a cappuccino
A scone? I don’t think we have those here in Texas, whatever they are.
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Old 12-30-23, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
Today’s mid-ride (Ya I know the thread is on pre-) break was a scone and a cappuccino
I generally don't even eat before a ride unless it's going to be over 40 miles or so or I start after noon.
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Old 01-04-24, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
Well stated, especially that last paragraph

One thing I’d add: you don’t have to do long slow distance rides to train your body to become better at burning fat. A lot of “good things” happen at higher intensities.
I will add in a few qualifiers... I have zero doubt that you and CF boy have tons of experience and knowledge gained over the many years of your athletic lives, but there are a few things to consider.

You have been riding for a long time, you are very fit and naturally thin.

Some people are not naturally thin, not fit and very new to riding or being active.

This is my opinion - but I personally don't think that newbies should be coming out of the gate and training at high intensity. They have zero base fitness, low aerobic ability - and if they are carrying weight, probably have a host of other issues going in the background - high BP, high cholesterol, metabolic issues...

Not everyone tolerates or processes carbs well. I do not, carbs are the enemy of my system and health - as they are for many overweight people or people that can gain weight at will.

Personally, if I train at high intensity and add carbs for fuel - I gain weight, and gain weight at will.

The OP asked a fairly specific question - energy issues on a ride while eating low carb. The basic answer to that is - keep the intensity down so you can finish your ride without bonking.

Some people just flat benefit heath wise from low carb, low intensity exercise.
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Old 01-04-24, 05:53 AM
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more to my above post -

I'm currently trying to cut weight. I want to drop 10 pounds for an upcoming trip to the French Alps.

In order to do this, I have to severely cut my calorie and carb intake - and up my Z2 volume. I'm talking eating as little as two small meals per day of just meat and veggies - nothing else. Along with 1.5-2 hour Z2 rides daily, and strength/core work in the mix. Any change to that, any added carbs, any high intensity work = weight gain.

I'm dropping the weight now so that when I start my high intensity training blocks my weight may stay +/- where I want it. I will not lose a pound in the high intensity phase, best I can ask for is to stay the same.

Some bodies stay naturally thin and can't gain weight, some body's can pack on the weight in a hurry or fight to hold on to every pound. These body types require different training and feeding methods.
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Old 01-04-24, 06:01 AM
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Old 01-04-24, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jughed

Some bodies stay naturally thin and can't gain weight, some body's can pack on the weight in a hurry or fight to hold on to every pound. These body types require different training and feeding methods.
There's less to the "naturally thin" bit than people think. I've been told that all my life. But when I look at my activity levels and caloric intake, they routinely fall right smack in the middle of "normal". And when I watch what my overweight friends are doing, they are less active and are eating clearly more. When I sat on my butt and overate during Covid in 2020 I gained 20 lbs - naturally. So maybe I'm "naturally" more active or "naturally" more annoyed when I gain body fat, or "naturally" have less of an appetite for food. But based on the typical activity/calorie/weight tables, I'm just normal.
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Old 01-04-24, 12:30 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Jughed
I'm talking eating as little as two small meals per day of just meat and veggies - nothing else. Along with 1.5-2 hour Z2 rides daily, and strength/core work in the mix. Any change to that, any added carbs, any high intensity work = weight gain.

I'm dropping the weight now so that when I start my high intensity training blocks my weight may stay +/- where I want it. I will not lose a pound in the high intensity phase, best I can ask for is to stay the same.

Some bodies stay naturally thin and can't gain weight, some body's can pack on the weight in a hurry or fight to hold on to every pound. These body types require different training and feeding methods.
Interesting that your high intensity training causes weight gain. I wonder what's going on there. Some speculation:

A. A high intensity session can increase blood volume -- I've noticed my body weight may rise by a pound or more overnight after a hard workout. But that gain is temporary (for me).

B. What about muscle mass gains from high intensity? That's definitely a thing, but muscle mass gains happen quite slowly.

C. Then there's the tendency for high intensity training to have shorter duration, so the calorie burn may be reduced.

If the weight gain is rapid, I'd guess "A. blood volume". If the gain is long-term, I'd guess "C. reduced calorie burn". In the end, weight gain/loss is primarily an energy balance.

That's all I got.
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Old 01-04-24, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
Interesting that your high intensity training causes weight gain. I wonder what's going on there. Some speculation:

A. A high intensity session can increase blood volume -- I've noticed my body weight may rise by a pound or more overnight after a hard workout. But that gain is temporary (for me).

B. What about muscle mass gains from high intensity? That's definitely a thing, but muscle mass gains happen quite slowly.

C. Then there's the tendency for high intensity training to have shorter duration, so the calorie burn may be reduced.

If the weight gain is rapid, I'd guess "A. blood volume". If the gain is long-term, I'd guess "C. reduced calorie burn". In the end, weight gain/loss is primarily an energy balance.

That's all I got.
I should have said and vs any. Carbs in my system, regardless of exercise amounts or intensity = weight gain. High intensity work requires carbs.

Instant water retention and fat storage.

Steady state higher intensity work can cause spikes in cortisol and weight retention/gain in some people.

Not everyone reacts the same way to different foods and exercise.

Muscle gain is a great example. Some people can flat pack on muscle in a hurry, some can't. For some it's a struggle to gain weight, for some it's a struggle to just maintain, let alone lose weight.

All of our bodies are different, many of us require different training regimens and diet.
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