Global Warming????
04-07-07 | 03:49 PM
#26
In the right lane
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,556
Likes: 8
From: Des Moines
Bikes: 1974 Huffy 3 speed
Originally Posted by phinney
If my limited knowledge of the Earth is any indication we can expect the climate to change drastically from what it is today and many species to become extinct as a result. Fortunately, we can also expect the climate to continue to change drastically and many new species to appear. It happened before we were here and it will continue to happen long after we're gone.
Is man a major contributor to this warming? I would be inclined to think, just on the basis of world population and a quick look at Google Earth that... yes... there's a good possibility.
What this all means and how we can fix it is not at all clear. A lot of evidence points to greenhouse gases, particularly carbon dioxide and methane. OK... maybe the evidence is insufficient for some us, but.... on the off chance that this *is* correct, shouldn't we at least admit that it might be possible? Just suspend judgment, listen to the facts, compare those facts against what we personally observe and experience.
For a long time, I agreed with you, phinney. This sounds like hogwash. But after looking into it a lot, I'm not so sure. And I'm concerned.
04-07-07 | 03:55 PM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,715
Likes: 21
From: Small town America with lots of good roads
Bikes: More than I really should own.
I rode Tour Dallas this morning and suspect at least three fourths of the 4000 or so riders were under dressed for the event. It was 39 when we left out and even colder by 10 AM with snow flurries coming doown. There was a lot of pink flesh on this ride with people complaining about frosty feet. I, on the other hand, was dressed appropriately because I watched the forecast and carried a handlebar bag with windproof clothes, in case I needed them, which I did.
I was one of only a few that had feet covers in place. What were these people thinking?
I was one of only a few that had feet covers in place. What were these people thinking?
__________________
04-07-07 | 04:03 PM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,970
Likes: 0
From: Laramie Wyoming
Bikes: Merlin Extralight Topolino Wheels Campy Record
Originally Posted by dbg
I seriously hope you people are joking, --and I'm the idiot here.
04-07-07 | 04:40 PM
#29
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 780
Likes: 0
From: OK
Originally Posted by n4zou
I've been through the fake sciences of global cooling, acid rain, nuclear winter, and now global warming. It's nothing more than attempting to scare people into paying more taxes and padding the pockets of people like Al Gore. The Earth has always had heating and cooling cycles and we might (has yet to be proven) be experiencing a slight upswing in temperatures. This gradual increase has been going on for over 75 years now (if you believe the old recorded temperatures) and has averaged about 1/2 a degree higher in that time but considering we have only been recording temperatures for about 150 years, who's to say that 1/2 degree is actual or just from inaccurate gages used in the early years of temperature measurement and recording. It has not been conclusively proven there is even a non-normal shift in global temperature so the scientists who get research money to study global warming have now started using the "consensus" word meaning that all the global warming scientists sat it's true so it must be and we all must believe them. There was also a consensus of scientist's claming the Earth was flat, the Earth was the center of the solar system and universe, global cooling was real, acid rain (which was going to kill off all the trees and oceans), and any number of hydrogen bombs starting a nuclear winter. You can tell there about to lose the argument when the "consensus" word starts getting used and that anyone making any argument ageist there consensus science makes them say they need to be disqualified and fired by not joining the consensus crowd pushing global warming. You hear nothing from the global warming crowd when record low temperatures are recorded but the first time we get even close to a hot summer day all you will hear from the pro global warming media is " Its global heating and this proves it" news report.
I have not been convinced that humans are the cause of or even an influence on global climatic varaibles.
BTW....what is the unit of measurement and cost per unit to purchase carbon offsets?? I only consume about 2 tankfuls (30 gals) of fuel in my car per year....I would like sell carbon offsets.
SNOW in OKC yesterday...sunny and cold (high 30s) today.
04-07-07 | 06:11 PM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
From: West Michigan
Bikes: Schwinn Rocket 88, Schwinn Fastback, Cannondale Road Tandem, GT Timberline rigid steel mtb
OK, I just finished a lousy indoor trainer "ride" because the weather is so lousy out.
The biggest signal that the global warming crisis is all hot air (he-he) is that it is so highly politicized. A crisis really helps to scare the tax dollars out of us and makes us happily give up control to "save the planet". If we really had enough reliable scientific data and environmental knowledge to say for sure that within 100 years (an interval conveniently far in the future, but not too far) we were going to wipe out 1/4 of the planet there would be no significant arguments from the political front. Instead they would all be jumping on the bandwagon to get their slice of the big pie. Our data is very poor and far to coarse even in recent (present?) times to accurately define anything like a mean earth temperature - whatever that means.
I remember listening to an NPR interview of Kary Mullis (1993 Nobel prize in chemistry) and the subject of global warming was brought up like it was a fact. He laughed and said there was no such thing and that the data simply didn't and couldn't support it. The host was absolutely speechless. I never heard Mullis on NPR again!
On the other hand I'll have a good shot personally of getting a thin slice of the global warming pie. However, I could get a much bigger slice of an asteroid defense (chicken little) pie and if we don't stop the asteroid what's the point of doing anything about global warming? How about we do the asteroid defense first and then if we have any workers still dumb enough to pay for it we'll go after the global warming?
I've really enjoyed this little bit of banter and what an appropriate topic on a day that's so cold and miserable for riding.
The biggest signal that the global warming crisis is all hot air (he-he) is that it is so highly politicized. A crisis really helps to scare the tax dollars out of us and makes us happily give up control to "save the planet". If we really had enough reliable scientific data and environmental knowledge to say for sure that within 100 years (an interval conveniently far in the future, but not too far) we were going to wipe out 1/4 of the planet there would be no significant arguments from the political front. Instead they would all be jumping on the bandwagon to get their slice of the big pie. Our data is very poor and far to coarse even in recent (present?) times to accurately define anything like a mean earth temperature - whatever that means.
I remember listening to an NPR interview of Kary Mullis (1993 Nobel prize in chemistry) and the subject of global warming was brought up like it was a fact. He laughed and said there was no such thing and that the data simply didn't and couldn't support it. The host was absolutely speechless. I never heard Mullis on NPR again!
On the other hand I'll have a good shot personally of getting a thin slice of the global warming pie. However, I could get a much bigger slice of an asteroid defense (chicken little) pie and if we don't stop the asteroid what's the point of doing anything about global warming? How about we do the asteroid defense first and then if we have any workers still dumb enough to pay for it we'll go after the global warming?
I've really enjoyed this little bit of banter and what an appropriate topic on a day that's so cold and miserable for riding.
04-07-07 | 06:29 PM
#31
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 10
From: Farmington, NM
Bikes: Giant Cypress SX
I've read Crighton's book, too. He says in the afterword that the footnotes are actual references, but admits to having done some cherry picking. Also note that the that he makes no such claim regarding the in text references. They could be either partly, or entirely fictional, for all he tells us.
Anybody wanting to quote fictional references is entitled to, of course, but for balance, also read John Barnes' "Mother of Storms." It is equally readable, which is to say, very.
It sometimes hard to separate weather from climate. Also hard to separate science from politically wishful thinking.
Anybody wanting to quote fictional references is entitled to, of course, but for balance, also read John Barnes' "Mother of Storms." It is equally readable, which is to say, very.
It sometimes hard to separate weather from climate. Also hard to separate science from politically wishful thinking.
__________________
Some people are like a Slinky ... not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs.
Some people are like a Slinky ... not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs.
04-07-07 | 06:36 PM
#32
Banned.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,938
Likes: 9
From: Post-partisan Paradise
Bikes: GF Wahoo '05, Trek T1000 '04, Lemond Buenos Aires '07
Watch it people. Did you just exhale? You just injected a pollutant into the atmosphere. You probably all have Ebola and bad breath too.
Isn't nature wonderful? We have things called "plants" that now need air pollution. Evolution is wonderful. I'm sure plants used to breath oxygen a long time ago, but in response to man's dangerous release of pollutants (carbon dioxide) they can now survive, even thrive, on air pollution.
And besides, it was so hot this summer that I left my ice tea on the patio, and when I came back an hour later, the ice had all melted and it diluted my tea. This would not have happened a hundred years ago.
Isn't nature wonderful? We have things called "plants" that now need air pollution. Evolution is wonderful. I'm sure plants used to breath oxygen a long time ago, but in response to man's dangerous release of pollutants (carbon dioxide) they can now survive, even thrive, on air pollution.
And besides, it was so hot this summer that I left my ice tea on the patio, and when I came back an hour later, the ice had all melted and it diluted my tea. This would not have happened a hundred years ago.
04-07-07 | 06:42 PM
#34
Banned.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,938
Likes: 9
From: Post-partisan Paradise
Bikes: GF Wahoo '05, Trek T1000 '04, Lemond Buenos Aires '07
Originally Posted by phinney
Exhaling is the least of the pollution I emit.
I bought carbon credits off Ebay where someone promised not to eat any bean burritos for a year if I paid him enough.
04-07-07 | 06:50 PM
#35
Si Senior
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,669
Likes: 11
From: Naperville, Illinois
Bikes: Too Numerous (not)
So, ...the fact that people are choosing sides and arguing about its significance --somehow proves that it is insignificant. I don't follow that logic.
..but I do agree it's hard to prove either way, and it's pretty much impossible to know exactly what it's effect will be. But drastic climate changes may cause large scale migrations of billions of people --way sooner than we are ready for. That won't be fun. (Nor would an asteroid on my head be very much fun)
..but I do agree it's hard to prove either way, and it's pretty much impossible to know exactly what it's effect will be. But drastic climate changes may cause large scale migrations of billions of people --way sooner than we are ready for. That won't be fun. (Nor would an asteroid on my head be very much fun)
04-07-07 | 07:00 PM
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,715
Likes: 21
From: Small town America with lots of good roads
Bikes: More than I really should own.
When I was a kid the talk was of "the coming ice age". Am I the only one who remembers this?
__________________
04-07-07 | 07:06 PM
#37
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
From: West Michigan
Bikes: Schwinn Rocket 88, Schwinn Fastback, Cannondale Road Tandem, GT Timberline rigid steel mtb
Huge asteroids have hit the Earth before and it's probably a statistical certainty they will again. Look what happened to poor Jupiter. Last I read the Gulf of Mexico is the result of an enormous asteroid impact that wiped out almost all life on the planet. The asteroid is out there right now heading for us at incredible velocity. We know it's going to get here, we just don't know when. The only important question is "WILL WE BE READY?".
04-07-07 | 07:09 PM
#38
Banned.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,938
Likes: 9
From: Post-partisan Paradise
Bikes: GF Wahoo '05, Trek T1000 '04, Lemond Buenos Aires '07
That's exactly why we should cash in our 401(k)'s and get a Trek Madone or other expensive bike of choice.
The good news is that most of us will die of cancer or something long before there is an Extinction Level Event.
The good news is that most of us will die of cancer or something long before there is an Extinction Level Event.
04-07-07 | 07:29 PM
#39
Boomer
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,214
Likes: 1,458
Bikes: Diamondback Clarity II frame homebuilt.
I believe that I read somewhere that given all of the modern laws, that cars are now so clean that the langest emiters of smog producing gas in the San Fernando valley are Cows.
Who's that guy running for president....Where are his movie cameras....Perfect for politics.....Cow !@#$%
Who's that guy running for president....Where are his movie cameras....Perfect for politics.....Cow !@#$%
04-07-07 | 08:10 PM
#40
Bike Junkie
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,625
Likes: 40
From: South of Raleigh, North of New Hill, East of Harris Lake, NC
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Specialized Roubaix, Giant OCR-C, Specialized Stumpjumper FSR, Stumpjumper Comp, 88 & 92Nishiki Ariel, 87 Centurion Ironman, 92 Paramount, 84 Nishiki Medalist
Not much different east of you JPPE, in Raleigh. I commented to my wife that with the frost we're having a whiter Easter than Chrismas. So does the Easter bunny have winter clothing?
__________________
Roccobike BF Official Thread Terminator
Roccobike BF Official Thread Terminator
04-07-07 | 08:45 PM
#41
Super Modest
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 25,326
Likes: 6,636
From: Central Illinois
Bikes: Trek Domane+x2, Trek Emonda
Originally Posted by maddmaxx
I believe that I read somewhere that given all of the modern laws, that cars are now so clean that the langest emiters of smog producing gas in the San Fernando valley are Cows.
__________________
“Train hard until your legs are tanned, then keep going until the shape arrives.” -Jolanda Neff
04-07-07 | 08:49 PM
#42
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,298
Likes: 0
From: Brazos River valley, south central TX
Bikes: 2015 Scissortail hardtail MTB, 2013 XL Longbike USS recumbent, 2010 Hans Schneider steel randonneur road bike, 2005 Surly LHT;
Originally Posted by RockyMtnMerlin
+1. FWIW I have read hundreds and hundreds of pages on the subject (just because I am interested). I'm pretty well read on both "sides" of the issue. I believe that greenhouse gases are major contributer to this warming event. I'm not sure how much we can do about it at this late date. I hope that I am proven wrong.
__________________
centexwoody
They're beautiful handsome machines that translate energy into joy.
centexwoody
They're beautiful handsome machines that translate energy into joy.
04-07-07 | 10:04 PM
#43
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by spry
I would like to stick Al Gore,s face in the 9" of Easter Global Warming in Northern Ohio today.
04-07-07 | 10:09 PM
#44
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,715
Likes: 21
From: Small town America with lots of good roads
Bikes: More than I really should own.
Originally Posted by Monoborracho
When I was a kid the talk was of "the coming ice age". Am I the only one who remembers this?
__________________
04-07-07 | 11:15 PM
#45
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Delta, Colorado
Bikes: 2007 Specialized Sirrus Comp, 1988 Diamond Back Ascent
I have no doubt our global climate is changing -- our world is a dynamic environment and ever changing. The problem is that thanks to folks like Al Gore, politics is highjacking science. Is our climate warming. Absolutely. I came back from Alaska, where geologists can document the glaciers began shrinking 300 years ago, and the rate has been increasing in the last 30-50 years. It is likely man contributes to this, but our climate began warming long before the rise of modern civilization.
So I ride my bike to do my part to reduce greenhouse gases.
So I ride my bike to do my part to reduce greenhouse gases.
04-07-07 | 11:44 PM
#46
Originally Posted by Coloradopenguin
I have no doubt our global climate is changing -- our world is a dynamic environment and ever changing. The problem is that thanks to folks like Al Gore, politics is highjacking science. Is our climate warming. Absolutely. I came back from Alaska, where geologists can document the glaciers began shrinking 300 years ago, and the rate has been increasing in the last 30-50 years. It is likely man contributes to this, but our climate began warming long before the rise of modern civilization.
So I ride my bike to do my part to reduce greenhouse gases.
So I ride my bike to do my part to reduce greenhouse gases.
__________________
04-08-07 | 03:17 AM
#47
Originally Posted by maddmaxx
I believe that I read somewhere that given all of the modern laws, that cars are now so clean that the langest emiters of smog producing gas in the San Fernando valley are Cows.
Who's that guy running for president....Where are his movie cameras....Perfect for politics.....Cow !@#$%
Who's that guy running for president....Where are his movie cameras....Perfect for politics.....Cow !@#$%
__________________
Sick BubbleGum
Sick BubbleGum
Last edited by Gojohnnygo.; 04-08-07 at 03:46 AM. Reason: Edit for graph
04-08-07 | 03:37 AM
#48
Global temperature change, 1861-2000 and 1000-2000
__________________
Sick BubbleGum
Sick BubbleGum
04-08-07 | 04:55 AM
#49
Boomer
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,214
Likes: 1,458
Bikes: Diamondback Clarity II frame homebuilt.
Originally Posted by Gojohnnygo.
Cars are clean? I guess you haven't stop next to one at a stop light. One more question about cows why do we have so many? Its because humans need them to feed the human population. Think of all the smog created by the production of feed, transportations of this feed and all the use of fossil fuel just grow it and house livestock. Don't blame the cow its mankind causing this. An all this points toward is are endless dependency of fossil fuel. Which is causing climate change plus other natural climate change factors. We humans are helping to accelerating it, With in just few decades not the slow process the mother nature has gone through over thousands of years.
So whats the cure, eleminate mankind??? eleminate cows??? not feed the people or move the food from where it is grown to where it is eaten??? eleminate fossil fuel..can we build a nuke plant in your town..for that matter can we build a wind farm in you town.
In these "few decades", the average temperature of the planet has risen 0.7 degrees. How much do you think it went up at the end of the last ice age. Not many cars around to blame then.
There are very specific things that we are doing wrong to our environment.....The "sky is falling global warming" crowd is an agenda to sell books, put viewers in front of CNN and make reputations for competing crews of scientists.
Lets do something about the things that we can.
As to cars.....1 running lawnmower emits as much polution as 30 properly smog equipped cars per hour.!
Rats, not the OP which was relatively tongue in cheek has gotten all cluttered up with dualing soapboxes. Sorry
Last edited by maddmaxx; 04-08-07 at 05:10 AM.
04-08-07 | 05:13 AM
#50
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
From: West Michigan
Bikes: Schwinn Rocket 88, Schwinn Fastback, Cannondale Road Tandem, GT Timberline rigid steel mtb
Before you start believing UN propaganda educate yourself on the UN and its history.
Here's a quote from a real scientist, Kary Mullis, whom has the integrity to stand up to the nonsense:
"The concept that human beings are capable of causing the planet to overheat or lose its ozone seems about as ridiculous as blaming the Magdalenian paintings for the last ice age. There is a notion that our emissions are causing the temperature of the planet to go up, even though the temperature is not going up. Even if the temperature were going up, we would be foolish to think we caused it. We could just as reasonably blame it on cows. In the nineteenth century the temperature went down. In this century it's gone up only about half a degree. The trend over the last two centuries is down. Down is not warmer. So if you like to worry, worry that we might be moving into a new ice age. We could be."
I guess he doesn't get his data from the UN.
Here's a quote from a real scientist, Kary Mullis, whom has the integrity to stand up to the nonsense:
"The concept that human beings are capable of causing the planet to overheat or lose its ozone seems about as ridiculous as blaming the Magdalenian paintings for the last ice age. There is a notion that our emissions are causing the temperature of the planet to go up, even though the temperature is not going up. Even if the temperature were going up, we would be foolish to think we caused it. We could just as reasonably blame it on cows. In the nineteenth century the temperature went down. In this century it's gone up only about half a degree. The trend over the last two centuries is down. Down is not warmer. So if you like to worry, worry that we might be moving into a new ice age. We could be."
I guess he doesn't get his data from the UN.