Metric Man

I patched a tube with one of those peel and stick patches a while back. It has worked well until yesterday. The tube has slime in it and I was riding in 100+ temps so I can't be sure what caused the patch to come off...the Slime or the heat. Any thoughts?

Floyd

I am going to guess, read guess, that it was a combination of both. You have heat from nature plus heat from a rolling tire and then you add pressure pushing that slimy stuff anywhere that there is a 'give'...so if the glue is weak, naturally or from heat, then the slime is pushed or pushing into the weak glue and finally breaks somewhere in the path of least resistance.
that is one opinion.
peace

Retro Grouch 

Slime + a glueless patch. YUCK! I'm surprosed that combination lasted this long.

robtown

I have very poor luck with patches - maybe 20%. The tires spring another leak, the valve goes bad, I get a sidewall blowout, etc. I still try to have some just in case the spare isn't enough.

byte_speed

I agree, particulary the glueless patches. They are great to get you home, but for me, they rarely last more than one or two more rides.

Retro Grouch 

I don't remember ever having a patch not hold but I've never tried the glueless kind. On the road I always replace the whole inner tube and only patch at home. Since I'm at home anyway, waiting for the glue to dry isn't a big deal.

Bushman

please note that with my epoxy + nail head method, you may pull off the glob of epoxy several times. For best results the tubing being pulled should be ultra thin steel tubing, not your standard hi ten or equivalnt tubing. Prep prep prep the dent by sanding well right down to base metal, clean with acetone before applying the epoxy glob with imbedded nailhead.

Retro Grouch 

We're talking about innertubes. It's best to keep nails away.

card

I did a test ride on an Orbea Orca. It was so rough, it felt like sitting on a 2x4" steel beam with steel tires. I guess you are talking about the tires on the Orca.

Dchiefransom

I don't like Slime in tires, it gets very messy.
Many in my club call those self stick patches "temporary" or "emergency only" patches, due to them coming off so frequently. I carry a regular patch kit.

Metric Man

Yeah, I have to agree about the Slime...it doesn't seem to work very well...at least not on mine. This is the second flat using a Slime tube. I guess it's time to go with the more permanent type of patches. Thanks all.

Metric Man

sknhgy 

I've tried some of the shortcuts like Slime and Fix-a-Flat. I am convinced that the only way to deal with flats is to learn to properly fix them on the road, even in the dark with 'skeeters biting your *****. Everything else is just postponing the problem and making it worse. I switch tubes and check the tire for what caused the flat in the first place.
I always carry a Streamlight Stylus with me as a backup/working light. It is the size of an ink pen. You can hold it in your mouth like a cigarette to light your work, and it is bright.

Rickochet

The glueless patches are terrible. How do I know?--I tried to use one today at 50 miles. They don't work, especially when the hole is on a tube seam. Kinda put a damper on my ride today!

roccobike

I carry a new, spare tube. My success with regular, add the epoxy type patches is not good, about 50% lasting for about one week. Only 25% last longer. I have had zero success with pre-glued patches.

Bill Kapaun

I don't have any problem with std. patches working, but I use a piece of sandpaper to clean the rubber instead of that worthless metal "buffer".

freako

I'm well into my 60's; and just about 2 years ago I decided to try those glueless patches. Let me tell you, it's not easy switching to a different thing after doing something one way for the last 35 years or so as you all know. So I gave these glueless patches a try, and guess what? I ain't ever going back to them old glue on patches!!

First I tried them just riding around in my neck of the woods and over about a 5 months had about 8 flats all fixed with the glueless jobs; I never had any problems with these things staying on or failing. So I thought great, now lets go on a tour with them and see how they hold up. So I took off on one of my partial across America routes and had numerious flats all patched with them glueless patches and not one failed.

I have several tubes with over a dozen glueless patches, and the tubes are about 2 years old, and their still being used today with no problems.

Any moisture coming out of a tire like Slime will not allow a glueless patch to adhere just as a glue-on patch won't either! I know, because I tried Slime on one of my bikes and had glue-on patches fail due to the Slime. For that matter WATER will make a glue-on or glueless patches fail. But Slime is schit anyway unless your using it in low pressure tires.

Reason glueless patches fail for most people is that their usually not that good at applying glue on patches anyways, but the other reason is that for some reason people think that since they don't have to glue it then they don't have buff the tube...THATS JUST PLAIN IGNORANCE! And as one poster mentioned, the little steel buffer is almost useless, a piece of emery paper works better without the possible danger of gouging the tube too deep. You also have to buff the area of the tube just a tad larger then the patch will cover just as you would do with glue-on so that you don't accidently place the patch in some small area that the buffing didn't cover. The other problem people have is they don't press the patch on hard enough; you gotta press the patch on as hard as you can between you thumb and index finger (I sometimes use both hands for more pressure).

Since I started using the glueless patches I had only one failures when I first started using them due to not knowing what I was doing real well but was able to peal it off and start again. Since then I've had 100% success. I'll never go back to the old glue on patches again.

By the way, I use the Park GP2 glueless patches, I've heard from my LBS that the cheap no name brands have had some problems; I don't know about that, but that's the only brand I use.

bmorey

Not related particularly to the thread but I imagine a few older riders like me will remember vulcanizer patches - the ones you lit with a match. I used those for my first bike but when I resumed riding after a 10 year break they had disappeared from the scene. They worked OK for me. I guess they would be more expensive to manufacture than a glue patch.

The Smokester

The "stick-on" patches should be regarded as a quick-fix to get you home when you are out of spare tubes. The should be applied with a partially-filled tube since they do not stretch very well. They will (usually) not be permanent.

The best patch is done with the glue kits. The down side of this is that you need to wait about an extra 5 minutes for the applied glue layer on the tube to dry before putting on the patch. If you short this drying stage the tube may stick to the tire potentially ruining both. But, the glue-on's--properly applied--will be permanent.

In my opinion, the stick-on's have no upside.

freako

Pure uneducated remarks made by a person who is stuck on the old ways with no education about the newer stuff. Look dude, I'm freakin old, nearly 70 and I'm not stuck in a rut...well not too much anyways! I too remember and did vulcanization by fire and when glueon patches came a lot of the guys said those patches were crap...they were stuck in their old ways. And because of this sort of misinformation I E-Mailed Park about it and this is what they said:

Our goal at Park Tool is to make all our patches 100% effective. However, adhesion in any application is not necessarily completely reliable as there are many factors related to bonding.

Our experience with the GP-2 patch over the years shows there are basically four factors that lead to patch failure. The first is when the tube is scuffed too aggressively with the sandpaper. When the tube is scuffed too aggressively or for too long, tiny grooves are formed—grooves too deep for the adhesive to flow into and seal off. As a result, air can escape. The purpose of scraping is really cleaning, so use light swipes with the sandpaper.

The second source of failure is a tube that is not clean and/or dry. If there is any dirt, talc, oils, or tube residue left after sanding, the patch will adhere to that dirt or talc rather than the tube. Likewise, if there is any moisture on the tube, it will get trapped between the patch and the tube. To insure the tube is dry, quickly wipe it with a damp piece of cloth and let it dry. Then apply the patch, making sure there are no wrinkles in the patch material.

The third source of failure is when the hole in the tube is directly on, or next to a seam. In this case, there is not enough surface area around the hole for the patch to seal against. In these situations, no patch is going to hold well.

The forth source of failure is from issues of tube-to-tire width compatibility. If the tube is too narrow for the tire, it will stretch too much and this may stress the patch bond to the tube suface. Additionally, do not inflate the tube after installing a glueless patch to “test” it, as this will stretch the tube as well. It is the pressure of the tube against the tire casing that holds the patch in place.


Calvin Jones
Park Tool


Calvin Jones
Park Tool
info@parktool.com
https://www.parktool.com/

stapfam

Spot on- Except that My riding mate had a puncture on Saturday when I was doing some work on his bike. MTB by the way and we patch as we ride on these as Many punctures can occur in one ride. Off with the tyre and I asked him when he had put a new Tube in the wheel. He last put new tyres on two years ago and that was when he had put a new tube in. The Tube was covered in patches- must have been 10 at least- and everyone was the Glueless patch. That is the only repair he does as he is very messy with glue and he got fed up with glueing the tube to the tyre.

I used to use them all the time aswell but The tube has to be buffed well with the emery paper supplied. That does not last long So I used "Wet-n-Dry" paper instead and that will buff up a tube in the wet .

bobkat

Good information from Park Tools, Freako! But you don't have to be so darned abrasive and name calling with posts like Smokester's. That's what scares people off so we never hear from them again. Opinions are like fecal openings - everyone has one and thinks his is the best! (for him it is, anyway!)
A question - how long do you hold on the glueless patch till you can put it back in the tire?

freako

I'm retired military (amoung other things) from the old school, and abrasiveness was part of the game, and if the recruits can't take the heat then their not going to take the heat in battle or being a POW. Once a Marine always a Marine thus old habits die hard, so I have too many habits thus I'll die hard!

Thus I don't feel I was insultive at all. Ignorance can not be bliss. And all this information being put forth by these posters is just that-ignorance. And being ignorant is not an insult, because I'm am not a doctor thus I'm an ignorant on how to remove your brain surgically, though I'm not ignorant on alternative ways to remove your brain such as blasting it out with a 45, but that would not be as nice and neat as a surgeon would do!

Wow what a side trip I took, I most be suffering from a brain tumor.

Anyway just because a glueless patch doesn't work for some people doesn't mean it's the patchs fault, it's the fault of the person applying the patch just as Park Tools said, and just as I as well as others I know including any LBS I've ever went into will attest to.

Granted I do agree that if the effort (whatever that is) to learn how to apply one of these glueless patches is too great to learn then forget it and stay with what you know. There are some old ways I hold onto as well, but there are some I let go of, such as vulcanizing by fire, I let that one go just as soon as glue on patches came out but I knew others that held on to the fire method for many years after the fire on became nonsense; and then I let go of glue on patches.

To answer the question as to how long to hold the patch on, I hold for about 1 minute.

The Smokester

freako,
It is clear that you don't have a clue what a "scientific theory" is. In fact, this term is really meaningless coming from you as is much of your post that preceeds it.

You want us to believe that second hand information that you are passing on is better than our own experience and that of our friends. You also want to apply this generic information without knowing the environment in which we operate our bikes.

Sorry, but I prefer not to rely on your faith-based advice on tire repair.

I hope in retrospect you are as embarrassed as some of the rest of us by this remark.

PS Hope none of these words or concepts are too complicated for you.

bobkat

OK grumpy old man. I surrender! You win! The rest of us have run out of urine! LOL

I've had pretty good luck with the glue on patches on the few occasions I've had flats after putting on kevlar belted Armadillos on one bike and Schwalbe marathons on another bike. After my wife had three flats in one day with brand new tires we put on kevlar belted ones (can't recall the names) and she hasn't had a flat since.
But I'll try the glue on ones next time. See, I'm very open minded and open to new ideas!