SaiKaiTai

Keep in mind, in all of this, that I have a wonderful shop that I'd like to remain loyal to
That keeps me tied to what they carry, Soma being one of them (Giant, Surly, Redline being some others). That said, she has given me her blessing to get the Jamis from another small, local shop.
So, there's that. There is another shop down the street that carries Bianchi, Gunnar, Waterford, Soma and a bunch more. The Gunnar is out of my price range. Soma is using Tange Prestige. From what I hear, that's pretty good tubing.

BluesDawg

Here's another cross bike to consider. Gary Fisher's new Presidio. TT OX Platinum tubing and SRAM Rival for about $2K. I wonder if it is the old Lemond Poprad frame or a new design.
Frame and fork available for $1100.

SaiKaiTai

Replace a Fisher with a Fisher? Hm. How poetic
That is a nice looking piece of machinery, there, but for a couple of things.

While the 48 would be fine, the 36 would be a little "tall" for me.
I am actually considering a compact with a 34 (or 32 if I can swing it) inner ring.
I do need the 30 for some of our hills but maybe I could build up to a 34.

My shop doesn't carry the brand

And the price is still just outside what I want to spend.
These are recessionary times and selling my current bike won't cover the cost of a new one.
I have to be smart about this, fiscally.

So, the Jamis goes for about $1300 at the shop (not my current LBS) I looked at a couple of weeks ago and I'm guess the Soma will come in around $1400. So, I might go back and try that Jamis (if it's still there) and see what my shop comes up with for pricing for the Soma.

I mean, I do want it now, yeah, but I'm no hurry either.

BluesDawg

Yes, I was pretty sure the GF would be out of your target price range, but I thought I'd throw it out there as more info for others who might read this thread in search for info about similar bikes.

In my own research for a bike to fill a niche very similar to what you have described, one of my dark horse favorite candidates is the Soma Smoothie ES. A couple of features of that frame are very appealing to me. The lower BB height compared to most cyclocross bikes and that the frame is designed for long reach road caliper brakes. The long reach brakes makes the use of wider tires more realistic. The now standard "short reach brakes used on most road bikes won't open wide enough for 32mm tires to pass through cleanly when removing the wheel. Combining that feature with the use of Tektro or Cane Creek brake levers with the extra quick release built into the brake lever would allow using some pretty wide tires, making the bike more usable on dirt roads. The lower BB would make for a bike with better road handling manners.

SaiKaiTai

And I think the Smoothie ES is how I'm leaning.
Funny that Soma considers it a road bike

BluesDawg

The Soma Smoothie ES is definitely a road bike. Not a road racing bike, but a versatile road bike with slightly relaxed geometry. What else would they consider it?

SaiKaiTai

Definitely not a racing bike, no... and THAT is exactly what I'm looking at - that green frame.
Even though I am most assuredly a "blue" guy, it kinda sorta reminds me of my old Varsity.

BikeWNC

Be careful about cross frames. True cross frames will have higher bottom brackets to allow for more clearance. That extra clearance raises the center of gravity and changes the handling characteristics of the bike. There are some frames labeled for cross use (not really true cross frames) that do not have the higher BB. Just make sure you know what you're looking at. I would think for your purpose a lower BB would be better, something with 7-8cm of drop.

Road Fan

The BB height is equal to the wheel radius minus the BB drop. 700c wheels have radii that range from 33 cm for a real skinny 19mm sew-up to nearly 35 cm for a heavy-duty city tire. Most road bikes will fall into the 33 to 34 cm range. Just about the most BB drop is 8 to 8.5 cm, found usually on DeRosas and Richard Sachs. Rivendell may have a few that are this deep, as well. The old favorite steel Treks were usually around 7.5 cm. I have one of those Treks and I've borrowed OFG's latest DeRosa, and I do like the feeling of straight, powerful pedalling I get on the DeRosa. My Masi and Mondonico are each around 7.5 cm. I like them both very much.

I would try to get a frame design with that 8 to 8.5 cm BB drop. It's harder to design in the smaller frame sizes - the down tube wants to run into the front tire, if the head tube angle is made on the more relaxed side. But if you're going custom, discuss it with your frame builder. There might be some important reasons not to go this way. Its true a low BB (large BB drop) can result in more pedal strike in corners, but I've never had that happen. Guess I'm just not enough of a hammerhead.

Road Fan

BluesDawg

I don't think they are painting them green currently. There could be some out on showrooms from last year's stock, but the website only lists "cobalt blue" and "metallic silver" as current color options.

BluesDawg

Other than touring bikes, I don't see many budget-friendly production road frames with more than 7.0cm BB drop. The Surly Pacer has 7.2cm drop. The LHT, a touring bike, has 7.8cm. The Soma Smoothie ES has 7.0cm. The Surly Cross-Check and Soma Double Cross cyclocross frames both have 6.6cm.

SaiKaiTai

Ah... that's a shame. I think it's the Smoothie that still comes in Green (yes, it is)

In all of the bikes I own or have looked at, I haven't seen one yet that drops more than 70mm
I have read a few articles that say that BB drop -and the center of gravity- is one of the lesser considerations in bike stability, with HT angle/rake/trail and chainstay length (and maybe wheel base pr center-front) being more important.

That said, there are a lot of differences -like all of the above- between my LeMond (65.5mm drop) and my Giant (70mm drop) and my Giant is a much more stable bike

Road Fan

I know. And it's not a cheap find in C&V bikes, either. Used Sachs are way high, and used DeRosas are usually maybe $900 to $1500 (really I'm just guessing here), and you'd have to deal with setting the bike up with gearing et cetera to suit you.

But I had thought SKT was looking for a builder to implement his dream? I think the cheapest custom frames will be around $1500, right (just guessing here, too!)?

What is it for that steel modern Masi? for my vintage one the drop is less than 8 cm, definitely.

Road Fan

Road Fan

SKT, have you looked at the Salsa Casseroll Triple?

Robert Foster

As we read these discriptions of what would be the "just right" bike for the specific needs SKT it makes my daydream about how I wish they make some of the beautiful CF bikes more affordable.

This is a bit off topic but I was at my LBS when one of these came in.
https://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkM...sition&eid=113

I thought it was one of the best looking bikes I have ever seen and wish they made a non TT frame that looked that good.