I thought I might trawl through here first and see if any other old fogies have got phoney knees.

I ask because for the most part, bicycling has saved my life. I've lost about 44Kg that's about 100lbs on the treadly. I'm just scared that I might wear my knees out before I reach my peak. Further, I'm about to take delivery of my first clipless shoes. I'm wondering how that will affect the bones... or lack of 'em.

Cheers

Rob

G'day Sir Les ... er ... Rob.

The clipless shoes shouldn't affect your knees, provided everything is set right. You may find that you'll need to adjust your saddle as your feet may now be a different height from the spindle of the pedal (needed to lower my saddle when I removed the clipless system). You will need to ensure that any float the cleats provide allows your foot to pivot freely in the clips - few people cycle with the foot locked in one place, nearly all of us pivot the foot slightly as we pedal and usually by different amounts on each side. The old thinking was that the cleat should centre the ball of your foot over the spindle but fitters such as Steve Hogg now advise that you move the cleat about a cm rearwards - personally this made a big difference ... until I got rid of clipless and went back to toe clips.

Clipless is really good in that it locks your foot into position ... but it's only really good if that position is the right one ... and the experts can't agree on that position (I don't think it's that critical to be honest), so read your body for signs of pain or for lack of movement. It's rare to do any damage quickly.

Just get out there and ride mate ... but make sure you take enough rest, you'll do more damage by overdoing it than anything else.

Richard

Try the bike tethered to a trainer for a while while you get in some practice clipping and unclipping. The only problem I would guess that you might have would come if the stainless knees prevent you from rotating the lower leg enough to unclip.

Both of my knees are still mine, but an old sports injury makes it harder for my left foot to rotate outward than the right. I cheat by using Shimano's Multi angle cleats (#56 gold model) and I rotate that foot inward most of the time. That in itself does not present a problem except that I am less prepared for an emergency unclip on the left side.

Thanks fellas

I have knees that make it so I dare not run- even to chase the dog in the garden. Cycling does not affect them in any way. In fact I took up cycling as I wanted to stay fit and I could not do many other forms of exercise. Within a few months- the knees had no pain- but I still do not run.

And if you want to reach your peak- Look at N+1.

What's N+1. I'm actually not a cycling tragic, although I probably ought to be. I know I'll never shave my legs or carry my spare pair of socks around in nut crusher shorts. However, I have lost a ton of weight and now I'm the fittest I've ever been in my life. I had my blood pressure taken the other day and the sheila in the chemist tells me that I ought to go to the doctor for a check up because my pulse was "soooooo loooooooow". Anyway, after about three years of riding I'm still not sure what all the acronyms are and I'm certainly in doubt about DH and XC and stuff. I'll have to pay far more attention when my Son in law ... a cycling tragic comes on Wednesday.

N+1, of course, is the formula for the correct number of bikes to have in your stable, where N = the number you have at present. And don't balk -- resistance is futile.

DH stands for downhill, as in timed downhill racing, and XC is cross country, as in skinny racers on mtbs, (mountain bikes). There is also CX, or cyclocross, a type of off-road racing using bikes that look like road bikes on a short course with barriers that force you off the bike.

Both my knees are my own but my L knee was severely injured 18 years ago and is weak and semi-functional. I can just barely bend it enough to ride.

When I started using clipless pedals I did have pain on the L leg getting used to the lateral motion clipping out. It ached right about at the top of the fibula during non-biking also. It healed OK in a few weeks. Normally I leave just clip out on the R side each time I have to put a foot down; the L side only gets unclipped when I completely get off the bike. I take ibuprofen a couple of times a day and I don't know if that helped or not.

I am curious how it will be when I do have the inevitable L knee replacement. The doc who repaired my knee said I would be too crippled up in pain to walk by 2000 so I'm beating the odds so far.

I have rather bad knees but I've managed to stay away from surgery doing two things... the first is learning to spin properly (using clipless pedals) and not putting alot of load on my knees until they are properly warmed up. If your pedaling technique is good (i.e. knees in, feet properly positioned, good use of spin) you should experience little or no knee pain.

The second is doing strength exercises and evening out the muscles above and below my bad knees. Part of my knee problems was having over developed quad and weak hams. I have worked to even out both big muscle groups (as recommended by a physical therapist) and I am amazed at how well this helps.

Also something to consider if you haven't yet purchased your pedal system, some pedals offer "float" which might be good for bad knees. For instance Speedplay X2 or X3. I first rode with Speedplay but am now using a pedal with little float and I personally see no difference but I do have a good pedal stroke. If your stroke is lacking, a pedal with float will help.

Dodgey Knees

You have spelt it wrong- It is Diogenees and he was a Greek "God" that lived a good few years ago. Fortunately cyclists managed to get him sent to Purgatory as he had to change his name 2 months after joining the 50+ group.

Ahh good ole Diogenees, I had no idea he wore tight shorts and insect goggles. Well, how about that.

Commenting on your Avatar-

Do any of our American friends know about "Sir" Les?

Plenty of reasons why knees will not be a problem but take care of them till they build up. If you are planning a Century ride in the next week or so- make certain it is a flat one and make certain you learn to "Spin" at a high cadence. Get the saddle set up right and to save your back- get the bars to the right height.

I doubt it I just use that avturd so no one offers to go riding with me

Great - actually crucial - advice!. Couldn't have been said better.

Reducing the load on damaged joints is critical, esp. when the bursa has not inflated by warming up before putting any power into the pedals. I toured for years on road bikes with 42-52 chainrings, and I'm paying for it now. I wish I had discovered lower gears sooner!

I might add, also incorporate a regimen of stretching - my PT recommended daily back, hip and leg stretches with holding the stretch. It is hard to keep up with them because they seem trivial, but after a month of doing the daily stretch routines, I perceived that I stood and walked differently, and with diminished pain in back, hips, and knees.

Yeah, it is much less stress on the knees to spin at a high cadence. I practice this in the winter on the trainer and keep it between 90 and 105. I'd suggest no less than 75-80. I picked up a wired bike computer with cadence on clearance for $15 this fall just for my bike on the trainer.

I've only fallen once because of the clipless pedals. I was on the lake for the ice races and started to tip over and I was about half way down before I realize I wasn't going to get unclipped! It does take some practice and I recommend riding for a bit and adjusting your cleats if you feel any discomfort.

And this is THE most important thing: Check the bolts holding in your cleats! If they get loose and back out, you might lose the cleat or not be able to unclip. I had to ride 10 miles home a few weeks ago when I lost both screws! I found the cleat which would have cost me $18 but the screws were gone. What a pain!

Thanks for that. I'm looking at those pedal extenders now. No one on ebay will ship to Oz and the retailers won't answer my emails.

I get my shoes tomorrow and hope there's enough adjustment in them so that I don't need the extenders.

Cheers