Always nice to get more input zoste. I wouldn't categorize my Brooks as torture devices. Just too much sit bone pressure for consecutive day riding 70-mile rides. They're tolerable as day-riders...40 or so.
I don't want to throw good money after bad but perhaps there's still hope for my B17CS and Swift? Thanks!

Isn't it great how different people can experience the same saddle in such completely different ways? As stated earlier in this thread, I never had a period of discomfort breaking in any of my Brooks saddles. Certainly no excrutiating pain. And as opposed to the previous poster, I find the B-17 to be the top choice for long rides. Several other saddles work fine for 40 miles or less, but only the B-17 is comfortable on metrics and centuries. YMMV was never more true than when applied to different people's experiences with saddles.

Warm wet wash cloth across the "sit-bone" part of the saddle before every ride. Get the sit-bone area wet and it will form to your behind very quickly. This is how they form leather in the first place. Just don't get the whole saddle wet and it won't get slack.

Suspended leather saddles work because they form to your exact shape with all of your imperfections and assymetries. This is similar to high-quality padded saddles with firm foam (like a Terry saddle, for instance). The foam forms to your booty but is still firm so you don't sink in and crush soft tissue. One difference is that the foam will probably break down before a quality leather hide on a Brooks will, so a serious rider (especially a heavier one) will have to buy a number of good padded saddles over a period of years where you might only need one Brooks (or similar) saddle.

Dear Diary:

Episodes 51 a through f:
In the wake of last weekend's long rides, I am taking the liberty of giving a general weekly report this time. This week has been devoted to relatively easy rides enjoying a new bike (the 05 Lemond pictured). There have been six rides totaling 124 miles, with the longest ride being 32 miles. I have used the B-17 Imperial N (narrow model) for all of these rides and have had pretty much no discomfort... not surpriising given the ride durations, I know. But I am still kind of entertaining the idea that the regular width B-17s are too wide for me.

Figuring 900 miles of riding is being pretty patient, I have finally put some Franklin Baseball Glove Conditioner (neatsfoot oil) on the bottom of the B-17 and intend to get it back in the lineup soon. Man, the saddle really sucked in the oil pronto! I do believe it could drink up a whole bottle of the oil easily. I did not overdo it with hours of soaking though... "easy does it" is my motto. Criner's idea of limited moisture application is duly noted and may get used soon too.

As to comments on the great "suffering" I have endured through all of this, I just do not view it that way at all. In fact, have enjoyed the discovery process very much. While none of the saddles, including the featured B-17, has yet fully fulfilled my dreams, none of them has induced great pain and suffering. In fact, most all of them have been perfectly fine for my average ride. As the five-day event approaches (ten days to go!) I will be trying to get in some longer rides but I may have to take several saddles along and continue the expertiment during the grand event itself. Anyway, rest assured, I am having lots of fun doing this and am not suffering any great trauma.

Nice bike! Love the color, and the matching laces on the B17 ;)

Thank you skijor. She was an ebay orphan, rescued by me from who knows what dark fate. Had to do it... ethics and all don't you know? :)

Her heart warming story of rescue and rehabilitation is at: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=538674


As to Zoste's recommendation to have a B-17 modified with a cutout: Note that the Imperial I have used and reviewed is, in fact, a B-17 with factory cutout and laces.

Guys, my message was misinterpreted. I have had terrible experiences with saddles. Particularly the Toupe, which so many others love. My point is that rather than follow the advice of my LBS and "give it a couple of thousand miles" I searched for a saddle that worked.

Everybody's different and I am quite sure there is a saddle for everybody. What I don't understand is the notion that it is up to you to feel discomfort for long periods of time in order to get a saddle that finally feels right. For me the answer was the SA. Right out of the box As always, your mileage may vary.

I'm done on this subject.

Episode 51g- Sunday June 7

Got out for a little over an hour today, again on the new bike and the Imperial N. It was uneventful and fine.

Episode 52- Monday June 8- "Back in the saddle again!" 25 miles on the B-17 and new bike.

Dear Diary,
I had planned to hold this over for a multi-day posting, but enthusiasm got the best of me. May have had a minor breakthrough! Today was my first day back on "ole Reliable" since May 30... and also my first ride on her since I broke down and judiciously applied the Franklin Baseball Glove Conditioner. I have been enjoying the rides on the Imperial N and perhaps was delaying the B-17s return somehat.

Today was gray and cool with pretty heavy winds blowing, so it was not an easy ride... not one of those magic easy days, but a ride you're glad you did because it would have been easy to just bag it. Mild hamstring cramps were ridden through on the upwind leg. My riding buddy quit after an hour or so. But for the first time I'm really sure I felt the "custom cradle" effect. This is more than a little flex in the leather, which I have reported before... no, this is something else.

I attribute the change to the Neatsfoot oil application and, again, it was not a huge immersion bath or anything. And the saddle almost literally sucked up all the oil I put on it... five minutes and the oil on the bottom of the saddle was gone. I also laid a wet paper towel on the back of the saddle for about an hour before I rode today.

Well... the B-17 will get ridden often over the next few days. More later on that.

Today's saddle comfort: 9 on a ride that wasn't all that easy.

For my anatomy, the stock B-17 was like trying to ride on a baseball bat. The M-C-M Selle Anatomica style slot made the thing almost cushy. I have since laced the sides and the saddle is...hard to describe...firm but supple. No discomfort, even after a 50 mile ride (the longest that I've gone on it so far).

I have a B-17n Imperial, too, which is fairly comfortable, but not like the B-17 with the SA cut out.

Who else makes thick leather hide saddles, i.e. standard racing saddles in the 60s?

Brooks is fine for me--it was comfy the first ride, and still is 2000 miles later (300 mi / week), but I would like something sub-400 grams without paying for titanium to go with my could-be-under-16 pound new CF bike. I don't want the thin-glove-leather padded stuff either.

PS BillyDonn, I don't think you have a Brooks butt. If you had one, you would have said by 2 weeks out that you loved the saddle, it felt like it was custom made for your tush, and this thread would have closed in April. I'd keep looking if I were in your shoes.

Like my Terry Liberator Race Gel is fine for 30-40, then gets uncomfy. At 40, Brooks is fine. 50, 60, 70, 80, no problems. My legs give out before my butt does.

+1
Well said. I'm afraid billydon is not one of the lucky ones born to ride a Brooks.

Yes. Time to move on to something else.

Episode 57- Monday June 15- just 15.5 miles

Dear Diary,
Had my last short ride prior to the big tour today. Tomorrow is a day of complete rest and driving to the tour starting site to camp overnight. I feel pretty darn good about my physical preparation.

As to the perfect and ideal distance riding saddle for me, perhaps one can never be sure until one actully does it. I have been riding the B-17 regularly lately, rating it 8.5 to 9 for comfort (same today). I have ridden it over 1000 miles with at least decent comfort and have been pretty conservative about applying oil etc to it during that period. So leave the B-17 behind now? No thanks... it will definitely get ridden this week, probably along with its cousins the Imperial twins... and maybe a modern saddle too. We shall see... it should be interesting. (Rides for five days will average over 60 miles, with longest around 70).

I will be riding the "new" 2005 LeMond built from a frame and parts recently.

Final ritual before leaving: the oiling of the saddles.

More Data Points
 

I have 3 different B-17s on 3 different bikes.

The first, a Honey Brown, was comfortable right out of the box. 60 miles on the first ride, and instant love.

The second, a dark Green, was hard as a rock. In doing the initial application of Proofide on the underside, it was very difficult to pull the sides away from the rails far enough to get a finger in there, unlike the other two. After 1400 miles is still not as comfortable as the first. Comfortable, yes- I did a century on it on Sunday- but there are still times when I'm aware it's there.

The third, another Honey Brown, was pre-owned and already had 10-15 hours use. It was somewhere between the first two in terms of comfort, although it's coming along nicely.

My guess is that these are organic products, with a good bit of variability in the leather, unlike synthetic saddles with variations eliminated from the manufacturing process. Those who report "Instant Nirvana" may simply have gotten one with a fortunate combination of variables, combined with compatible personal geometry. Others may have gotten one like my green one, which was obviously cut from the obstinate hide of a rangy West Texas steer.

The only thing I consider a flaw in the B-17s is the shortness of the bearing portion of the rails. I like a saddle adjusted well to the rear, and the B-17 doesn't allow much range of adjustment. I'm a fan of Thomson seatposts, which have no setback, and on two of my bikes have had to go to the setback Thomson model to get the position I like.

BTW, am I correct in assuming that the 3-character code on the bottom of each saddle is a model/date of manufacture code? Mine are OG8, OH8 and OK8. ("O" for model, "G" for month, "8" for year?)

There will never be a vinyl saddle that smells as good as a Brooks!

Like I told you early on - mine took well over 1,000 miles to become "mine!"

Some of the break in was not pleasant - buttttt, hindsite, says it was well worth it.

And, it continues to get better.

Since Brooks manufactures its saddles just outside of Birmingham, England, chances are it's the hide of a rangy hereford.


I wouldn't know :lol:

Congrats on the ride! I see you're hiding the saddle you finished on in the photo. Always the tease. ;) You don't look any worse for the wear, not do I see any bloody knees or elbows, so I guess you came through the ordeal in one piece. I look forward to how you fared, and if the saddle was all you hoped it would be all those months ago.

We're dyin to hear how it went!:)

Episodes 58 through 62- Tour de Nebraska 2009- 320 miles

Dear Diary,
I have arrived home from my big ride without harm or incident. What a blast and what a great sense of accomplishment! I am about to finish my first year of riding and have totalled about 4500 miles or so. There was great scenery too with the lush rolling hills of northeast Nebraska! My training prepared me pretty well and I am especially glad I did the two-day 111 mile mini-tour ride a couple weeks before. But on to some specifics...

Overview of the Ride:

June 17- 60 miles on the B-17- Platte Center to Tilden, NE
June 18- 65 miles on the B-17- Tilden to Bloomfield, NE
June 19- 60 miles on the B-17- Bloomfield to Ponca, NE
June 20- 73 miles on the B-17- Ponca to West Point, NE
June 21- 60 miles on the Imperial Narrow- West Point to Platte Center, NE

To begin, I felt that I really should start the ride on the regular B-17 saddle, which has been the subject on so many of my past ride posts. Aside from a small hot spot on the soft tissue during the first day, which was easily corrected by better and more liberal use of chamois butter, the B-17 performed very well and was comfortable. I just didn't feel any need to take a risk by changing something that was working well for me, so I left well-enough alone. During the first two days or the tour the saddle definitely was transformed and softened up A LOT... very definitely a breakthrough.

When I had finished day four of the tour I knew I was soon going to be finished so I felt that taking a chance on a saddle change was safe and justified... so I bolted on the Imperial N... i.e. the narrow B-17 with cutout and laces. This particular saddle had worked for me on numerous local rides and on an earlier 50 miler locally, and I also like its looks with the cool red laces and all. Despite this being a hard day's ride with lots of hills and threatening weather, the Imperial N worked even better than the B-17! It too had gotten some neatsfoot oil prior to the ride, and was softer than when I rode it previously. But the main element is the width. I just feel that the narrow width of the saddle is a little better fit for me than the regular width B-17.

Saddles available but not used: Specialized Avatar 143, Brooks Imperial regular width.

I will have some concluding thoughts on this whole process later. For now, here are a few select pictures:

Ed. note: pic five is scheduled pie stop at a rural country church.

Agreed...swapping saddles in a search for comfort, and still rating them for butt pain after 800+ miles of "break-in" :eek: sounds like epic fail to me.


However, given that the OP is new to riding, perhaps it's just a case of tender tush...two or three more years of consistent riding may toughen him up.


FWIW, I've tried a variety of saddles over the last few years, including some plain carbon fiber models. As long as they fit me for width, and are narrow enough in the nose, I don't really notice them at all.*



* With the exception of TT saddles...for those, the extreme position throws thoughts of "comfort" out the window. I finally found some relief this season with the Adamo saddle, but I'm keeping the team proctologist on retainer, just in case. :D

Why do you say this is an "epic fail?" What does that mean, anyway?

For those of us who liked reading it, it was a success, and an example of what our experience might be. It will help me with making saddle choices.

If you already have a method that is not an "epic fail," why not explain it? Something more than "I don't really notice them at all." For example, how do you tell they fit you for width, if the saddle is not a
Specialized?

When I was first getting into road riding, I had "sore butt" issues on longer rides. So I tried a variety of saddles in an attempt to find one that was comfortable.

Like most beginners, I made the mistake of first trying a "cushy" saddle...only to find that those put pressure on the nerves in the nether regions, resulting in "sleepy pee-pee" :eek:.

After that experience, I tried several varieties of cut-out saddles, still with no real relief on longer rides.

Finally, somewhat as a whim, I tried a Selle Italia SLR. At 130 grams, it's one of the lightest and most minimal of saddles made today. I expected it to feel like I was sitting astride a 2x4.

But, surprisingly, it was very comfortable from the get-go...even on longer rides. After riding it for a while, and comparing it to my previous saddles, I realized that the comfort was due to two things:

1. The Selle Italia SLR fit me very well. Apparently, I have fairly narrow sit bones, and the width of the SLR is just enough to give good support. With its minimal padding, there's no pressure on the nerves, and the narrow nose ensures no chafing.
   
2. After a year or two of riding, my butt had toughened up.

The OP is in his first year of riding, so perhaps his is more a case of "tender tush", rather than a problem with the saddle. It's also possible that his weight is a contributing factor.

And, as I said before, if it takes 800+ miles, plus various "treatments", to break in a saddle...that sounds like failure to me. Modern saddles that are properly sized and padded require no break-in at all.


As for how I "fit for width" when looking for saddles...I try to find saddles that are about the same width as the Selle Italia, with minimal padding, and a narrow nose. I avoid wide saddles, "comfort" saddles, and heavy saddles.