I really think that your tenders get broken in and your butt becomes "leathery" too. The saddle then becomes the match made in heaven that we all desire. The longer you ride the sooner both get broken in.

Keep working on both, you will get there. :-)

I have noticed that my B17 varies from day to day. It is best on warm humid days and worst on cold days. Or maybe my butt is more sensitive on cold days, who knows. In addition, the B17 seems to become more comfortable as I ride. The first 10 minutes are rough. Almost seems like the saddle warms or absorbs sweat and becomes softer. On a cold day it starts out as hard as a piece of oak. BTW, when it was new I conditioned mine per Sheldon's directions.

A friend of mine gets his in shape by putting neatsfoot oil on bottom, and proof hide on the top. Seems to know what he's doing. Still takes a while to mold to sit bones though.

A Brooks is a beautiful piece of equipment, but nothing I would put on my road bikes. I'm constantly moving back and forth on my Arionne saddle as the terrain changes. When I get a single speed cafe bike with wooden fenders, I plan to equip it with a Brooks, just for looks.

I can ride most modern saddles out of the box for 100 miles with no discomfort. Yes, my Fizik Arionnes wear out rather quickly, but my butt does not.

Good luck with your saddle and your ride! Keep losing weight and work on your core strength to increase your comfort on long rides. And ride more. The faster you finish, the less time you spend on the saddle.

Please ignore that reference. I am convinced that Sheldon (R.I.P.) actually meant for that post to be one of his April Fools jokes. <;)>
<I am editing this post by adding the smiley. Apparently at least one person took my comment more literally than I intended it. I do find Sheldon's comments about leather saddle care surprisingly out of line with my own experiences and most of what I have read on the subject, but it just proves that even as highly regarded a source as Sheldon Brown must be taken as one man's opinion. This a rare point on which I disagree with Sheldon's advice.>

I'm with skipper. Stay away from the lotions and potions and magical incantations designed to soften your Brooks saddle. It isn't supposed to get soft. It will gradually conform to the shape of your bottom and your sit bones, but it will still be hard and it will be comfortable (if you are fortunate enough to have a "Brooks butt").

Although it will always be more slick than a typical saddle, it will become considerably less slippery than it was when brand new. That will take a few weeks.

Not to worry- If I do anything like the Neatsfoot Oil treatment it will be as a last resort. I wouldn't want to contaminate the grand experiment.

Episode four- 20.4 miles.
Dear Diary: Blustery and gray weather dictated a shorter ride today. Rode upwind (15-25 mph steady...ugh!) down to the "oasis", a stand of trees with a shady bench that is kind of a landmark on the main MUP line (see pic). The first ten minutes was just mildly uncomfortable saddlewise, followed by about 45 minutes of slow grinding, during which any saddle discomfort was washed out by the general displeasure accompanied by such a slow and tedious upwind slog. I do seem to stay on the saddle a little better since last night's 1/8 inch nudge forward.

Chatted with two middle-aged guys on road bikes at the oasis... one of whom had a very sexy S-Works Tarmac. Oh la la!

The return downwind ride was jeepers fast, with extended times above 20! Unfortunately the last ten minutes of this otherwise fun return were again marred by saddle discomfort. Definitely no sign of saddle induced ecstasy just yet. Silver lining: still no sign of hamstring cramps for fourth day in a row! Still, I am spending quite a bit of time while riding thinking about the saddle beneath me, which cannot continue indefinitely. I just noticed that I have ridden eleven days in a row now, so I think a day off Tuesday (heavy work day anyway) is called for... to rest the tenders and start with a clean mental slate. I do think I'm getting closer to having the B-17 in a good position. Making another nudge forward in the adjustment tonight. I do think the B-17 leather may be getting a little flexier. Total riding time on it: over seven hours.

Before you resort to that last resort, offer your uncomfortable and uncorrupted Brooks saddle up for sale. Anywhere from 10% to whatever-you-can-stand% off from what you paid for it. That should get you a good down payment on your next new saddle. Go outside of the recommendations of the manufacturer and you may have a hard time selling a Brooks saddle. No way would I buy a used and abused Brooks saddle. I would be happy to buy a used Brooks with dimples created by someone else. My big ***** will take care of the dimples in short order. You just can't undo motor oil, ball-peen hammering or other forms of misguided mistreatment.

Thanks, BluesDawg. It is nice to have a bit of support from someone who does not think I am just another Brooks zealot or cultist. Most Brooks saddle advocates would agree that everyone deserves a happy butt. Even if it turns out not to be a Brooks Butt. I just remembered a grade school joke about a girl named Gladys.

+1

I am currently breaking in my 2nd Brooks now. My first, a honey Brooks Flyer, which is now on my Trek 700, was comfortable right from the start. I applied proofide regularly and after 3 years now it may still not quite be broken in. But as I said still very comfortable. My newest, a standard B17 well, my butt's telling me it's not so instantly comfy. Odd since the Flyer and the B17 are the same only with springs on the Flyer. But still far better than most plastic saddles. Once the weather warms more I'll probably put some proofide on the B17 also. I agree they do feel better in warmer weather. And yes they are tilted up in front. I've had the best luck tilting them up rather severly and then as they break in, lowering the nose a bit. I can feel the nose with my tender bits, but it's not uncomfortable. Finding that sweet spot is key.
As paydirt said it's as much breaking in your butt as breaking in the saddle. Give it plenty of time.

Episode five- 20.4 miles.
Dear Diary: Cool 33 degrees and just moderate wind today. Rode mostly upwind (10-15 mph wind) about 13 miles with a 7 mile downwind finish. After a two-day break from riding and another small nudge forward on the B-17, saddle discomfort seemed reduced today. I was not thinking about the saddle all the time while riding... a good thing I think. Still not sure this thing is going to be better than my previous saddle. It does look like small sags are developing between the three holes on the saddle (pic). Is this a sign of progress in break-in? Still nary a sign of a hamstring cramps for the fifth ride in a row! Total riding time so far on the Brooks: about 8:30.

Diary, do I have a Brooks butt? Do these tights make my butt look big? :o

Don't get it. Selle Italia Flite Kit Carbonio . Break in time - 10 minutes (if that). Comfortable and very light.

Having been married for 45 years I've learned to not answer some questions.

I have just over 1,000km on my B17 narrow (fixed gear bike), and I am now a Brooks convert. Just about to order a Team Pro for my Argon18 Platinum.

After years of being OK on some other saddles, I'm now converted.

It took some time, but not that long. Keep the faith !!!

There is clearly much kindness and compassion in the Over 50 Forum.

[QUOTE=Skipper;8578916]Before you resort to that last resort, offer your uncomfortable and uncorrupted Brooks saddle up for sale. Anywhere from 10% to whatever-you-can-stand% off from what you paid for it. That should get you a good down payment on your next new saddle. Go outside of the recommendations of the manufacturer and you may have a hard time selling a Brooks saddle. No way would I buy a used and abused Brooks saddle. I would be happy to buy a used Brooks with dimples created by someone else. My big ***** will take care of the dimples in short order. You just can't undo motor oil, ball-peen hammering or other forms of misguided mistreatment.

I agree with skipper...to a point. Saying that oiling a Brooks is misguided is strictly opinion. Various oiling techniques have clearly worked for enough people to justify it as a viable option. Sheldon would not have written so thoroughly on the topic if it had been an April Fool's joke. If it had been a joke, he would have said so at some point in his text. He did no such thing. But yes, I agree that some potential buyers would be less intrigued by a Brooks that had been treated with oil (neatsfoot, motor oil, whatever).
I did go by the book initially...proofhide for the first 1500 miles. Then I tried a product called Stuebbens Hamanol. It is used on horse saddles, some of which cost several thousand dollars. I figured if it's good enough for saddles used on show horses then it's good enough for a Brooks. I gave that another 1500 miles to work with no luck. That's when I chose to try the neatsfoot bath technique.

After reading many many posts on BF on the topic, I believe that rider weight plays a large part in break-in. Heavier riders tend to break them in quicker. I am 6'0" and 170 lbs. I know riders that have been comfy on their Brooks in 500 or so miles but they are 200+ lbs.

It's interesting to read this. When I got my B67, I picked one of the pre-broken in ones, so it worked quite well right from the start.

Paul

Episode six- 20.1 miles.
Dear Diary: I keep my bike inside right by my desk- to be adjusted, cleaned and, especially, admired. This has left many hours of late to soothe and cajole the B-17 into submission... soft music, mood lighting, rub her tummy with proofide again. We have to be making progress don't we?

Today's ride in the wind (strong) and the cold (34 deg.) could easily have been skipped but I have already skipped Th and Fri due to work and weather... so out I go. Did not see a single other cyclist on the MUP in 1 1/2 hours. I am preoccupied by cold feet and SM (snot management) most of the time and, again, did not concentrate on the saddle too much. Though not a long or particularly enjoyable ride, it was a good one conditioning wise: one of those you are glad you did when it is over.

The B-17 seems to be yielding a bit to the the manly ministrations of my massive glutes and quads. I do swear I am beginning to feel some give or flexiness down there! My main problem still seems to be sliding forward on the saddle. If I could stay back on it, it might be great! I stopped briefly at 15 miles and took three turns on the screws on the Thomson to point the nose more upward... and may have gone too far. But it did seem to help some. I will know more tomorrow, when warmth is forecast and a longer ride is possible.

Still no hamstring cramps. What is the world coming to?

billydonn, Why not skooch the saddle forward another 1/8 inch? You could be sliding forward because your leg and pedalling geometry are a bit more efficient a bit more forward.

Road Fan

You are wise my friend. I actually just did that and was going to mention it in the next episode. It's about the fourth nudge forward now. I believe the LeMonds are known for their longish top tubes, so this all may make some sense. Thanks much for the thought!

The nose of my B17 is tilted up noticeably. I like it tilted as much as possible, but not so much that the nose presses into my sensitive areas (ahem).

Can we see a photo showing the tilt of the saddle?

Sure... pic one is from bottom showing how much more forward adjustment is possible... maybe another 1/2 inch. Pic two is tilt and molding on wall is horizontal.

I am very puzzled by the Sheldon comment about using motor oil on a bike saddle.
Motor oil can cause a condition called oil acne. It's caused by having your skin in contact with petroleum oil.
I wouldn't want that anywhere on my body, let alone the nether regions. Also, the skin on your crotch absorbs toxins faster than the skin on other parts of your body. I learned about this stuff from safety training back when I was a maintenance mechanic in a large factory.

I recently acquired a B-17 and it has been comfortable from the get-go.

Thanks for the pictures. I do see that you now have the nose tilted up slightly. That should help with the sliding forward while the new saddle is so shiny and slick.

About the fore-aft positioning of the saddle. You mentioned the Lemond having a long top tube. How does the distance from the saddle at the center of the seatpost to the center of your handlebar tops compare with the same measurement on your other bikes?

Not only that, but how does the position where your sit-bones contact the B17 compare to where they contacted it on the saddle you had before teh Brooks? The main point here is whether the distance of your contacts behind the BB is the same pre-brooks and after. Your body hasn't changed, so whatever was biomechanically right still is.

Presumably that previous set-up was comfortable. If so, it probably represents the natural geometry of your pedaling. I would think the Brooks should be located to allow you to replicate that positioning, by vertical and fore-aft adjustments. Then adjust the tilt of the Brooks to optimize sensitive bits contact versus the effect of gravity in pulling you forward on the saddle.

My V-O faux-Swallow is coming along nicely using this strategy.

[QUOTE=skijor;8609618]A lot of interesting points here. The word "misguided" is certainly strong, perhaps too strong. There are three practical questions, IMO: what technique helps get the saddle usable, what techniques may affect the longevity, and what is the effect of any of these techniques on Ebay value.

The Proofide-only school is not going to reduce future value, because you've done almost nothing, and you've followed Brooks' instructions. The jury is certainly out on whether it helps break-in, or perhaps mutual acclimation is a better term. I also firmly believe it will not compromise longevity, and in my experience with some trashed used saddles, increases useful lifetime.

Non-Brooks treatments (motor oil, other oil, "active softening," and possible water soaking) have a diverse and spotty history. I don't do them, but I'm not feeling desperate. Certainly there are reassuring anectotes and frightening anecdotes. Question is, which outcome will I have? As Harry Callahan said, do you feel lucky? So it appears thay might accelerate acclimation, but might compromise durability and value.

I certainly don't challenge Sheldon's (or anyone elses) sincerity or accuracy of description. I do wonder if others who have tried his method have had identical results or if it differs, and if their procedures were identical.

Weight as a factor is an interesting hypothesis, and needs some user data to gain insight about it. It certainly seems like it should be true. There is a BF user who is with Brookds, Andrea Men. He set up the Brooks Imperial pre-release user trial, using C&V members as testers. I would think his view would be based on historical product data, and hence represent a lot more cases than the (at most) several dozen cases you''d get on BF.