Interesting (and great!) side benefit from firm saddle- no more leg cramps!
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 37
Bikes: Trek 7000 with modified bars, bar end mirrors, rear rack, clamp on forward bar grips, and Brooks B68 saddle.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Interesting (and great!) side benefit from firm saddle- no more leg cramps!
I'm 72 and been riding a Trek 7000 with modified riser bars for several years now. Previously I had a soft foam Avenir seat, and I could count on having really severe leg cramps from riding, always occurring at night, in bed! These cramps were vicious, and I came to consider them the price I had to pay for loving to ride bikes! :
But about a month ago I got a Brooks B68 saddle on the advice of what I read in these forums... There's no doubt the thing is firm (hard, actually!), and I really haven't ridden with it far enough or long enough yet to '"break it in", as they say. -But surprisingly enough the hardness of this seat causes me no pain at all while riding, nor after it either! And after using this saddle daily for a month now, the leg cramps have not occurred once!!
I have no idea why this should be, and y'know, I don't really care 'why' either! (I suspect it may be my brain telling my ass "Hey, we paid $123 (incl shipping) for this thing, so you'd damn well better not nurt!!!
But whatever the reason, I'm just happy to have such a comfortable improvement...! (I know the Brooks saddle thing does not work for everyone, so I'm just glad to be within the majority for which it does! )
Having said that tho, I should mention that because of occasional back problems I'm the type who sleeps on an extra-extra firm mattress, and when entering a room if I can't find a firm seat I'll either stand or ask the host if they have any wooden kitchen chairs around! I even prefer those hard fold-up metal chairs to any kind of cushy sofa or chair! So bear this all in mind before you take into consideration my appreciation of the Brooks line and run out and buy one of these saddles for yourself...
But about a month ago I got a Brooks B68 saddle on the advice of what I read in these forums... There's no doubt the thing is firm (hard, actually!), and I really haven't ridden with it far enough or long enough yet to '"break it in", as they say. -But surprisingly enough the hardness of this seat causes me no pain at all while riding, nor after it either! And after using this saddle daily for a month now, the leg cramps have not occurred once!!
I have no idea why this should be, and y'know, I don't really care 'why' either! (I suspect it may be my brain telling my ass "Hey, we paid $123 (incl shipping) for this thing, so you'd damn well better not nurt!!!
But whatever the reason, I'm just happy to have such a comfortable improvement...! (I know the Brooks saddle thing does not work for everyone, so I'm just glad to be within the majority for which it does! )
Having said that tho, I should mention that because of occasional back problems I'm the type who sleeps on an extra-extra firm mattress, and when entering a room if I can't find a firm seat I'll either stand or ask the host if they have any wooden kitchen chairs around! I even prefer those hard fold-up metal chairs to any kind of cushy sofa or chair! So bear this all in mind before you take into consideration my appreciation of the Brooks line and run out and buy one of these saddles for yourself...
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I wonder if it's the saddle per se or a slight difference in seat angle, height or fore-aft postion. I ran into a cramping issue for a while several years ago and inadvertantly cured it by a slight saddle position change, but I can't pinpoint exactly what it was. I recently cured (so far) a right knee issue with a significant saddle position change based on what I learned on the web through a google search on knee issues.
Over the last ten years I've gone to progressively harder and narrower saddles as my body adapted and I increased my ride times. My last mountain bike saddle (WTB) cost coincidently $120 and weighs in under 200 grams. Very comfortable.
Back about 10 years ago I did an extensive web seach on the B68. I could find no one who did not like it. I almost bought one from a site where you got your money back if you found it uncomfortable. I believe they gave you a year to make up your mind. I actually called and talked to the retailer to make sure I understood.
I wound up building up a new Ti road bike and decided on another saddle at much less weight and which my local dealer let me try a week with a full refund. I liked it so much I bought a second for my mountain bike. Unfortunately it couldn't take the pounding so now I have a spare.
A friend of mine uses the same saddle to do the Rondenaire series. He's been to Paris twice doing the annual 1200 kilometer ride.
I do a lot of standing myself (always have, even in airports) and prefer hard chairs as well. Probably why you made it to a healthy 72 and me to 71. I migrated to a softer mattress recently as I developed a hip ach with the hard stuff.
Best thing for back issues are push-ups and leg raises plus general weight training helps. Mountain bikeing on single-track helps the upper body a lot as well. A test of a group of pro mountain bikers found a high upper body bone density. Road bikers generally suffer from poor bone density.
I'm using drop bars on the road. I tend to be what they call tight-jointed, but my weight traing keeps me flexible and joint-pain free though I did suffer lower-back pain before I stated weigh training in my mid 40's.
Al
Over the last ten years I've gone to progressively harder and narrower saddles as my body adapted and I increased my ride times. My last mountain bike saddle (WTB) cost coincidently $120 and weighs in under 200 grams. Very comfortable.
Back about 10 years ago I did an extensive web seach on the B68. I could find no one who did not like it. I almost bought one from a site where you got your money back if you found it uncomfortable. I believe they gave you a year to make up your mind. I actually called and talked to the retailer to make sure I understood.
I wound up building up a new Ti road bike and decided on another saddle at much less weight and which my local dealer let me try a week with a full refund. I liked it so much I bought a second for my mountain bike. Unfortunately it couldn't take the pounding so now I have a spare.
A friend of mine uses the same saddle to do the Rondenaire series. He's been to Paris twice doing the annual 1200 kilometer ride.
I do a lot of standing myself (always have, even in airports) and prefer hard chairs as well. Probably why you made it to a healthy 72 and me to 71. I migrated to a softer mattress recently as I developed a hip ach with the hard stuff.
Best thing for back issues are push-ups and leg raises plus general weight training helps. Mountain bikeing on single-track helps the upper body a lot as well. A test of a group of pro mountain bikers found a high upper body bone density. Road bikers generally suffer from poor bone density.
I'm using drop bars on the road. I tend to be what they call tight-jointed, but my weight traing keeps me flexible and joint-pain free though I did suffer lower-back pain before I stated weigh training in my mid 40's.
Al
#3
Time for a change.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Posts: 19,913
Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
I would presume that the Soft saddle was allowing some restriction to blood circulation and the nerves around that area and changing the saddle has aleviated that problem. The fact that the saddle is firmer-and probably narrower- would have had a lot to do with this. Couple this with a possible change of saddle tilt and position and you have the probable answer. Which one I would not hazard a guess at but you have now given those suffering from leg cramps another thing to look at and adjust besides adding electrolites to their diet.
Glad to see you have cured your problem- and just hope the Brooks keeps working for you.
Glad to see you have cured your problem- and just hope the Brooks keeps working for you.
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.
Spike Milligan
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.
Spike Milligan
#4
Life is good
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not far from the Withlacoochee Trail. 🚴🏻
Posts: 18,209
Bikes: 2018 Lynskey Helix Pro
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 522 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
10 Posts
I used to get leg cramps at night. Did a bit of research and determined that it had nothing to do with the bike. My body was low on potassium after riding. Added potassium to my diet (yogurt, dates, tomato/V8 juice, etc.) and haven't had problems since.
If the Brooks is too hard (it would be for me ) get a comfortable saddle and try the potassium fix.
If the Brooks is too hard (it would be for me ) get a comfortable saddle and try the potassium fix.
__________________
The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. - Psalm 103:8
I am a cyclist. I am not the fastest or the fittest. But I will get to where I'm going with a smile on my face.
The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. - Psalm 103:8
I am a cyclist. I am not the fastest or the fittest. But I will get to where I'm going with a smile on my face.
Last edited by RonH; 08-05-10 at 06:19 PM.
#5
gone ride'n
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 4,050
Bikes: Simoncini, Gary Fisher, Specialized Tarmac
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
My riding leg cramps went away when I started using Nuun and drinking more (water that is).
#6
Council of the Elders
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 3,759
Bikes: 1990 Schwinn Crosscut, 5 Lemonds
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
Good comments above, but "Leg cramps" is pretty general. Was it the quads, hammies, calves... all of the above? Any significant saddle discomfort while riding the old saddle?
It is certainly true that many, many people think a big fluffy saddle is the key to comfort, but it ain't so IMO. Is the new Brooks narrower than the old fluffball, per chance?
It is certainly true that many, many people think a big fluffy saddle is the key to comfort, but it ain't so IMO. Is the new Brooks narrower than the old fluffball, per chance?
#7
Rod & Judy
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montrose, CO
Posts: 567
Bikes: Specialized S-works E-5, Davinci joint venture , CoMotion Pangea
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
Fifty years ago I went from a "soft tractor" seat to a leather Persons, never looked back!
R
R
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If a hard saddle is all it takes to cure leg cramps, I am going to figure out how to mount a brick on my seat post! Or try to find a stone one similar to the one on Sheldon Brown's site.
Unfortunately based on my past use of the Thoork saddle, about as hard as they come, the better riding position from the new saddle makes more sense.
Unfortunately based on my past use of the Thoork saddle, about as hard as they come, the better riding position from the new saddle makes more sense.
#9
Banned
I didn't have leg cramps from soft saddles, but I did experience numbness in the genitals, and long with severe friction burns in the groin area. Switching to a harder, slicker, leather Brooks saddle alleviated a lot of the aforementioned conditions to the point of being barely noticeable.
#10
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 37
Bikes: Trek 7000 with modified bars, bar end mirrors, rear rack, clamp on forward bar grips, and Brooks B68 saddle.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Good comments above, but "Leg cramps" is pretty general. Was it the quads, hammies, calves... all of the above? Any significant saddle discomfort while riding the old saddle?
It is certainly true that many, many people think a big fluffy saddle is the key to comfort, but it ain't so IMO. Is the new Brooks narrower than the old fluffball, per chance?
It is certainly true that many, many people think a big fluffy saddle is the key to comfort, but it ain't so IMO. Is the new Brooks narrower than the old fluffball, per chance?
Riding the old Avenir, not only was the foam the problem, it was also its ~grabby~ lycra covering!! The foam felt soft at first, but gradually would compress to form pressure on your seat bones. And the lycra would grab at your clothes, making it almost impossible to shift around on the saddle and even making it difficult to mount/dismount. It was also wider in the front part and would chafe at my legs while pedaling.
The B68 of course, being firm and smooth leather, does none of these things! -And one can move on it quite easily, without feeling all that resistance! I find pedaling now delightfully easier... The Avenir's rear seat area was indeed a bit wider than the Brooks B68 and also higher and squishier, but the nose part, where much of the problems with riding with it occurred, is certainly very much wider, softer, and more highly padded!
AFA adjusting the seat angle goes, on my bike I can't do that... The '07 Trek 7000 has a shock seat post with a fixed-angle top where you slide a railed saddle into clamps. You can move the seat fore and aft to your liking, but cannot change the angle one iota. (Which is okay with me, I like the angle that's provided well enough...)
Last edited by Chazzlee; 08-06-10 at 07:59 AM.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
[QUOTE=Chazzlee;11242822]My calf muscles would seize up and turn into vise-grip quality cramps! Only escape was to grit my teeth, tough it out, and force my leg as straight out as possible! After several looong and painful moments it would subside!
I found it helps to extend you foot/point your toes as well.
Al
I found it helps to extend you foot/point your toes as well.
Al
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
2 Posts
If the cramps were just in the calf muscles, I would tend to suspect that a difference in saddle position (most likely culprit is height) is the reason for the reduction in the cramping. There is a good chance that your old setup allowed you to pedal in a manner that overloaded the calf muscles and they fatigued earlier than other leg muscle groups. This is much more prone to happen if you lack flexibility in the calf muscles. Keep in mind that while hydration and mineral depletion is often thought of as THE reason for cramps, it is not always the case. Overuse of muscles can cause cramps too.
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If the cramps were just in the calf muscles, I would tend to suspect that a difference in saddle position (most likely culprit is height) is the reason for the reduction in the cramping. There is a good chance that your old setup allowed you to pedal in a manner that overloaded the calf muscles and they fatigued earlier than other leg muscle groups. This is much more prone to happen if you lack flexibility in the calf muscles. Keep in mind that while hydration and mineral depletion is often thought of as THE reason for cramps, it is not always the case. Overuse of muscles can cause cramps too.
Al
#14
Council of the Elders
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 3,759
Bikes: 1990 Schwinn Crosscut, 5 Lemonds
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
Well done fellow diagnosticians. I think we have gotten to the bottom of this.... not to discredit the comfort improvement of the Brooks, of course.
#15
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Freehold, NJ
Posts: 37
Bikes: Trek 7000 with modified bars, bar end mirrors, rear rack, clamp on forward bar grips, and Brooks B68 saddle.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Anyway, another solid week or so of riding, and not a cramp in sight!
-Wunnerful, wunnerful!
(And if you know who said that alla time, you really do belong here in the geezers group!!)