I had mine tested last fall and it was 175. I asked the nurse where that fell and she said the normal range was 100-800. I kinda felt like she was being snotty so I didn't press any further but if that's the normal range then 175 was below average.

Seems to not be a settled thing in the medical world. I need to see my doc on Friday for a routine physical, and in anticipation for that, did some blood work. When they scheduled the tests, I asked for a testosterone test also. Kaiser allows a member to go on-line to see their test results. For "Testosterone, Total", the "Standard range" is 193-740 ng/dL. "ng/dL is "nanograms per deciliter". WOW! That's a billionth of a gram per just under a half glass of water. Those weight weenies amongst us fret over 10 grams. A billionth of a single gram is nothing.

This is what the Kaiser "about this test" says:

So? Who knows? My test came back with a reading of 283.4, not below the minimum standard range, but on the lower end. I'll talk to my doctor about it, and see if taking a supplement will help with my ride recovery. I know now that sometimes the day, or even two, after a particularly intense ride, that my legs have a dull ache when climbing the stairs at work. After a good 50-60 miler, I'm pretty wasted for the rest of the day, and sore and weak the next day. I'd sure like to recover quicker, and be able to put in back-to-back 40-50 milers. No reason, at our age, that we can't do something like that.

Because of having a prostatectomy and a return 6 years later, no testosterone for me. Prostate cancer thrives on testosterone. :)

Affirmative, very affirmative...:thumb:

Saw the doc last Friday. He let me have a Rx of Androgel. Two pumps. Saturday I applied it to the inner upper arm, Sunday to the inner thigh. Forgot this morning. I think the inner thigh will be a better place to apply the stuff. You just rub it in like suntan lotion. A bit sticky at first, but once you rub it in real good, it kinds of "goes away". Have to wash the hands pretty good afterward. He cautioned about putting it someplace where somebody could touch me, because some of it will transfer to that other person.

It told him that I wanted to try it to aid in recovery after a ride. He was impressed that I'd ride 50 miles. Always good when the doctor is happy with an exercise routine. I won't have my next real ride until Friday. If the weather cooperates, I'll push it a little bit and see how the recovery goes on Saturday. Want to get in a couple thousand feet of climbing. (He was not happy with how I am controlling my diabetes. Gotta work on that.)

"It told him that I wanted to try it to aid in recovery after a ride."

So you are taking a performance enhancing drug... Nice.

How does one find a doctor who is willing to help? Clinically I have all of the classic symptoms of low T, but the blood test comes in at the lower threshhold of normal. My family doctor referred me to an endocrinologist, who then rejected the referral based on the numbers - they were within "normal" range for a man my age - 56. My response to my doc was that I wanted to be more to the mid-range of normal, would he help me? After all, I had all or at least most of the clinical symptoms. Nope. Won't even discuss options and absolutely will not even consider a prescription. He has no other suggestions!

I find this unacceptable, so I am searching for a new doctor after 20 years with this guy. I find it ridiculous that this same physician will NOT HESITATE to suggest hormone replacement therapy for female patients as soon as they exhibit symptoms. But for men - no way. Again, I am not looking to improve my speed, my physique, etc. I am looking to feel normal again.

And for those of you that think it's funny, or that it's screwing around with mother nature, or that I should "man up" well...walk a mile in my shoes and then talk to me.

Any suggestions on how I go about finding someone to help?

Thanks.

Volo:
Tisk, tisk...Try not to skip any days. IMO you will start to notice real results after 4-6 weeks. It may not happen by your weekend ride. YMMV of course.

What I've been reading and what my doc seems to have used is 300-1000= the "normal" range.

I seems that the normal range is all over the place. It may go according to age. I've been on T shots for several months and I am up to 250 which is the very bottom of the range according to my doc. I will be getting the shots twice a month now and up the dose a bit. I must say I am doing better than I was but the doc has also been adjusting my thyroid dosage. Getting everything just right is touchy as they all together and effect each other. At least I think I am on the right track.

When I fired my old doctor and started looking for a new one I went on line and checked the reviews of the ones I was interested in. Then I started calling and the first one that a human actually answered the phone I made an appointment. I ask lots of questions and he candidly answered all of them. Then we talked about my issues. I have been happy with my choice but I am not married to the guy. If I think I need a change I will do it again. Good luck

I may have posted these links before, but am not sure so here they are again:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0607121129.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1027083043.htm

To have issues with testosterone and thyroid hormones level, your pituitary gland must be the culprit since this gland controls both of these and many more hormones?

I've been on Androgel since November. Levels went from 312 - 545. That's about 5th percentile to about 48th percentile for my age group, I think. I started taking it for depression and libido. It works. If it helps my cycling, yee haw.

This is my exact situation. My level was the the lowest normal value. I went to an endocrinologist who charged me $260 to say no. Today I'm starting a 21 day trial with a 'herbal" topical cream. It does not contain yohimbe, caffeine, ephedrine, or androsterone (sp?) which I suspect would be unhealthful. The reviews were positive.
I'm looking for improvement of energy, mood, and improvement of body composition.

Its easy to be confused with the T numbers, different tests produce different numbers. Different clinics test and lab differently and get completely different results. Even with the same test subject. And to further compound the confusion, FREE Testosterone vs TOTAL Testosterone also tests and labs different. So its also quite important to ask the doctor to test for both. I know I will next time I see my doc in May.

Yeah, Sun Yaoting only lived to 94.

Shop around for a doctor who gets vacations to Cabo San Lucas from the pharmaceutical companies.

My daughter does medical translation and she told me recently one of the PAs wrote a prescription for supplemental testosterone on the basis of a 'diagnosis' by the fellow's trainer at the gym.

Three Month Report
 

I'm now coming up on the three-month anniversary of taking testosterone supplements. Have switched from Testim to Androgel and had my dosage upped after a second blood test.

So far, I've got nothing bad to say. I'm seeing a lot of benefits and expect it to get even better as I move from three to six months. Yes, I'm riding my bike faster (about 1/2 to 1 mph overall average) but it isn't a quantum leap, and it is hard to say how much of the gain is biochemical. My time on the trainer during the winter must also get some of the credit, but perhaps there is an interaction of training x chemistry.

Have not done any long rides over 35 miles yet, so effect on endurance/recovery is unknown. Recovery from intense short efforts is definitely better.

Oh Yeah, I did lose a shootout on the MUP the other day, so the effects of the T must not be all that great:


(My legs WERE pretty tired though... and I HAD climbed some Alps beforehand... was not on my fast bike either...) :lol:

I just passed 9 months on Hormone therapy; Thyroid, Steroid & Testosterone, I notice a big difference over where I was after 6 and 7 months of therapy. What a difference in my energy levels and my riding. My hormone levels declined to virtually nothing over more than ten years during which time my riding declined precipitously. In recent weeks I started riding hills I had not ridden over in years and the last couple of weeks have each seen mileages greater than a couple of months worth a year ago. I know I can do even more but I am taking it slowly so as not to get hurt while over doing it.

Today must be the day for updates. I'll go ahead and give mine, even though it's only been about 2-3 weeks since I started using Androgel.

About the only noticeable difference is that I'm not sore the day of or the day after an intense ride. It's nice for the legs to not be "weary". But ... I still suck at climbing! Been doing more of that, since I signed up for the Strava climbing challenge with the goal of finishing in the top half. It's still difficult to pull a 1 or 2 mile, 6-7% average grade at more than about 6 mph. Not sure if it is due to lousy sleep habits, (5-6 hours per night), being overweight, (by about 20 pounds), or poor conditioning. Probably a combination of all three. Or, I just suck as a climber.

Volo:
It's probably going to take awhile to become a monster on your bike. (I'm sure you know that of course.) Improved testosterone levels may well allow you to train just a bit harder. I have noticed other benefits like more energy generally at work, etc. and I suspect you may too. More and more I can feel, and see, changes in my body composition that I really like. Good luck and post your observations from time to time.

For those of you taking Androgel, I have a question about where you apply the gel. Just received my first Rx refill yesterday. This prescription came in a baggie with a "medication guide" sheet enclosed. The first tube I got several weeks ago did not come with this sheet. On that first tube, after some experimentation, I found the easiest place to apply the gel was on my thigh. I noticed that the gel would quickly liquify and drip onto the sheets or whatever if I wasn't quick about rubbing it in. However, the "medication guide" shows to apply the gel on one's stomach, shoulders, or upper arms.

Should I follow this guide and apply the gel where they say to, (stsomach, shoulders, or upper arms)... or is applying it to my thigh okay?

- - -

p.s. Have a century ride on Sunday, (Tour de Cure), so will see how this stuff really works and how I feel on Monday. Last Friday, I took a 55 mile ride, and bonked at mile 42 because I didn't eat and also got sunburned in several places. Was wasted the rest of that day and most of Saturday. Didn't realize that the sun was so intense or how hot it really got. With the wind, it didn't seem that hot, but back at the car, the thermometer read in the high 90's.

Can't advise you on application sites as I don't use any T replacement/supplement, but the ads on TV warn to choose a site so that women and children do not come in contact with the application site. Obviously, there are posters here far more qualified to advise you.

I have used the thigh occasionally but I stick mostly to the prescribed areas you mentioned. I assume there is more possibility of rib-off onto clothing on the thigh so be sure to at least let the alcohol evaporate well before putting your pants on.

Only did the metric century yesterday. The hills were front loaded with 3200 feet of climbing in that first 60 miles. After that, it was dead flat through the urban jungle. After a mile or so, I got tired of having to stop for a red light every couple of blocks or after every five minutes. Couldn't get any rhythm going. That was awful, so I turned around and finished up. My average speed was pretty good considering all the hills we had to climb, so I knew I didn't really take it easy. My Strava Suffer Score of 202 with 75 points in the red also shows me that I wasn't goofing off too much.

Today? I feel great! Slept well last night, and no "aches and pains" today. I'm ready to go again on another moderate-length ride. This stuff just might be working.

p.s. I'm sticking with the thigh for now. Seems to be the easiest and most convenient place for me.

I would look that doctor right in the eye and tell him or her they are FIRED!!
Its your life and you are responsible for it, not your doctor. I have fired three doctors in my life time so far. I got the idea from my father who became unhappy with his doctor who was treating him for a knee issue. I was with him at the time as he needed help walking. I was never so proud of him when he uttered those words. Some doctors act like they are gods and don't want to be questioned. When I interviewed my current doctor I had many questions about how my treatment would be handled, and was happy with his answers so I said clearly, OK doc, your hired. He looked at me a little quizzical, smiled and said thanks. Good luck.

Since everyone seems to be updating I guess its my turn.
I am nearly back to where I was almost 4 years ago when my thyroid abandoned me. The only thing I haven't gotten back is my Heart Rate. My max sustainable HR was 166 and now it closer to 144 barely on a good day. I am doing 70 to 85 miles rides twice a week where I used to do them three times a week and quicker.
There is a bid difference in my attitude and in general I just feel better about life and people don't seem to piss me off as much or as easy. I will have another blood test in two weeks and will have my psa's tested too.
By the way I found out how the "normal" numbers are derived. The people to test the blood take an average of all the tests for a certain test and determine the high and low for these #s. So, doctors send people with a suspected ailment and from those results comes the parameters. It is not taken from the healthy average person. So if you are on the low side of the scale, it means of its from all the sickly peoples tests. I want to be on the high end myself.

Already happened here. I am on Testim due to my remaining testicle shutting down (left one ripped from my body due to cancer). Weekly self checks are in order. I the boys start feeling a bit soft, let your doctor know.

Later,

The literature in the medication states to place it on the shoulders/chest. As I use two tubes, both sides get a tube. It takes about five minutes to dry, but still sticks to my shirts sometimes.

Later,