HELP! Tired of being left in the dust . . .
#51
I need speed
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51 is very very young from a 'can I get faster' standpoint.
#52
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Thank you so much for all the help! I am encouraged to spend more time in the saddle, read Joe Friel's book, and push myself out of my "comfort zone" and get out during the week (that's the good part
This forum is so wonderful, I'll hang around and see if I can help others as much as you have helped me !!
trqtort (turquoise tortoise - maybe I should change it to speedtort? - they say that words are a powerful thing
This forum is so wonderful, I'll hang around and see if I can help others as much as you have helped me !!
trqtort (turquoise tortoise - maybe I should change it to speedtort? - they say that words are a powerful thing
#53
Feelin' ten again!
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Four years ago when I started riding I was in the 10 hour century group also - at least I finished! I started adding intervals to my trainings and to make it easy I would sprint from one telephone pole to the next and then slow down for 3 poles and repeat over a couple of miles. My speed has now built up to an average of 13-14 mph. At 53, I'm not interested in running with the fast group but just staying in shape. BTW, we ride Rans recumbents which made the riding so much more comfortable. Yes, we can still climb hills it just took learning a different technique. Perhaps you can ask some your fast guys to train with you?
#54
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Thank you so much for all the help! I am encouraged to spend more time in the saddle, read Joe Friel's book, and push myself out of my "comfort zone" and get out during the week (that's the good part
This forum is so wonderful, I'll hang around and see if I can help others as much as you have helped me !!
trqtort (turquoise tortoise - maybe I should change it to speedtort? - they say that words are a powerful thing
This forum is so wonderful, I'll hang around and see if I can help others as much as you have helped me !!
trqtort (turquoise tortoise - maybe I should change it to speedtort? - they say that words are a powerful thing
#55
Sore saddle cyclist
Lots of good advice here. Also work on leg strength and pedaling technique. When you are spinning or riding outside, work on pedaling technique and practice until it's automatic. While you're at the gym for spin, take a few minutes to work on quad and glute strength with weights. Here is a pretty good video on pedaling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z04uo...eature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z04uo...eature=related
Last edited by Shifty; 01-30-12 at 04:32 PM.
#56
Senior Member
Lots of good advice here. Also work on leg strength and pedaling technique. When you are spinning or riding outside, work on pedaling technique and practice until it's automatic. While you're at the gym for spin, take a few minutes to work on quad and glut strength with weights.
Welcome to the sport. Don't take this wrong, but after 1 year on the bike you're really still a noob, both in terms of technique and physiologically. The muscles you use to power a bike will continue to develop for years to come.
To get fast, get smooth. Work on putting power into the bike smoothly. You'll never go fast all day with bad technique no matter how strong your muscles are. In fact, too much strength with poor technique will just get you injured.
Take a pain inventory after your next ride. What hurts? Back, butt, feet, shoulders? Whatever it is it should be investigated. A properly fit bike properly ridden won't hurt, you'll be fatigued after a ride but you won't be in pain.
Ride more often. If you work, and can manage it, maybe commute a day or two a week.
Have fun and stay with it.
#57
Spin Meister
Trqtort, I don't think you can improve just riding on weekends. However, did you really ride 400 miles this past month, just on weekends, and take a spinning class, and not become at least a little stronger than the previous month? Were you really blown off the back of the group you rode with in a quarter mile?
It's difficult to imagine any group starting off that fast – roll-outs tend to act as warm-ups, so this is an atypical group, or you indeed have some very slow twitch muscles - for now.
If you've been at this for a year and ride mostly on weekends, then that isn't enough time in the saddle. You're petite, too. You don't have the musculature other riders can draw on, even if you are riding half centuries every Saturday and Sunday.
- Ride more when it stays lighter longer.
- Go ride hills, lots of hills - you've got them out your way. Ride hills and you'll gain strength and endurance, without gym work.
It's difficult to imagine any group starting off that fast – roll-outs tend to act as warm-ups, so this is an atypical group, or you indeed have some very slow twitch muscles - for now.
If you've been at this for a year and ride mostly on weekends, then that isn't enough time in the saddle. You're petite, too. You don't have the musculature other riders can draw on, even if you are riding half centuries every Saturday and Sunday.
- Ride more when it stays lighter longer.
- Go ride hills, lots of hills - you've got them out your way. Ride hills and you'll gain strength and endurance, without gym work.
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#58
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You make good points! It helps to gain perspective with more experienced riders' advice! You are right, I have improved over the year and am pleased with my progress so far, I am thinking now that I need to pick up my efforts to ride with the faster groups.
The big "dust drop" happened last Saturday and since then, I have posted a message to the Facebook Page for the club. I got a very positive response! Apparently, the riders were "A" riders and they said that the "B" riders hibernated in the Winter and start coming when it warms up. I even got a couple of invitations to ride a "moderately paced" ride next time. WOW, cyclists are a really cool bunch of people and I am encouraged by such a welcome from my local Club
I love the idea of doing hills, the satisfaction when you look over your shoulder and see the climb is worth the effort!
BTW, I am starting with a Trainer from the Gym tomorrow to work on weights, per your suggestions about building muscle.
I am also looking at the fact that I have been on a "calorie deficit" with losing weight. I have reached my goal now and it's time to pick up the nutrition part of cycling.
So, my next question is: What do you eat before and after a ride? I don't really mean what do you eat normally during the day (I eat pretty healthy then), just specifically about when you do your cycling?
The big "dust drop" happened last Saturday and since then, I have posted a message to the Facebook Page for the club. I got a very positive response! Apparently, the riders were "A" riders and they said that the "B" riders hibernated in the Winter and start coming when it warms up. I even got a couple of invitations to ride a "moderately paced" ride next time. WOW, cyclists are a really cool bunch of people and I am encouraged by such a welcome from my local Club
I love the idea of doing hills, the satisfaction when you look over your shoulder and see the climb is worth the effort!
BTW, I am starting with a Trainer from the Gym tomorrow to work on weights, per your suggestions about building muscle.
I am also looking at the fact that I have been on a "calorie deficit" with losing weight. I have reached my goal now and it's time to pick up the nutrition part of cycling.
So, my next question is: What do you eat before and after a ride? I don't really mean what do you eat normally during the day (I eat pretty healthy then), just specifically about when you do your cycling?
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I too use a similarly imprecise version of interval training and attest that it really does work. I just bring my cadence up; add gearing until my output seems maxed; hold speed until I really, really don't want to do that any more; and then ease back off to cruise. The only downside to this is that hills become a natural opportunity to blast away. That can be slightly annoying to others in a group ride.
#60
I need speed
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You I am also looking at the fact that I have been on a "calorie deficit" with losing weight. I have reached my goal now and it's time to pick up the nutrition part of cycling.
So, my next question is: What do you eat before and after a ride? I don't really mean what do you eat normally during the day (I eat pretty healthy then), just specifically about when you do your cycling?
So, my next question is: What do you eat before and after a ride? I don't really mean what do you eat normally during the day (I eat pretty healthy then), just specifically about when you do your cycling?
#61
Banned
Start your own club where the socializing is the theme,
Like feature stopping for a nice luncheon,
rather than demonstrations of athletic prowess.
Like feature stopping for a nice luncheon,
rather than demonstrations of athletic prowess.
#62
I need speed
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Sure. And just let your weight creep back up, lose your fitness, and pay medical bills as your body decays long before it has to.
#63
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… You'll have to work at it. Make sure that a good portion (but not all) of your riding is focused on riding outside your comfort zone. Ride a little faster than you are comfortable riding. To get faster you have to push yourself.
Yes….It takes effort to achieve, and effort to maintain. Just plain old riding around won't do it, as it will when building endurance…by regularly and routinely riding harder than is comfortable, I've made progress. You can too.
A well-known training tool is called Relative Perceived Exertion (RPE). As I understand it, it's basically a poor man's heart rate monitor for cardiovascular exercise. One assesses their perceived effort according to a verbal description, and a score from 6 to 13 is assigned to that level of effort. That score multiplied by 10 is equivalent to the heart rate. My modification is to change the scoring from 6-13 to 10-100. I then assign a score of 50 to my usual comfortable, non-conscientious riding effort (see comparison of scales below).
The mental trick I then use to ride faster is to increase my cycling perceived effort from 50 to 60. This is not too intolerable a jump, and one I can sustain for quite a while. Sometimes I then go up to 70. Once I’m “in the mode” as it were, I find it doesn’t take much mental effort to maintain the increased pace.
So thanks to the wise elders quoted above for reminding me about pushing myself. It made this morning’s commute more interesting than usual, and I hope to keep it up and I’ll monitor my progress. Hopefully my absolute exertion will gradually increase.
RPE Scale / Jim from Boston
- 6 = resting / 10 - 20
- 7 = very, very light / 20 – 30
- 9 = very light / 30 – 40
- 11 = fairly light (my 60% Max HR) / 50 (usual pace)
- 13 = somewhat hard / 60 (new training pace)
- 15 = hard / 70 (sometimes, after warm-up)
-17 = very hard (my Max HR) / 80
(lactate threshold; breakpoint between hard but steady breathing, and labored with gasping)
- 19 = very, very hard / 90 – 100 (chased by a dog)
* On RPE scale, 10 times the number is equivalent to heart rate. For cardiovascular effectiveness, one should exercise to ~ 60% of maximal heart rate: Max HR = 226 – age (for women), 220- age (men)
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-01-12 at 06:42 AM.
#64
Uber Goober
"What do you eat before and after a ride? I don't really mean what do you eat normally during the day (I eat pretty healthy then), just specifically about when you do your cycling?"
On randonneuring rides, I just gobble down crap from the convenience stores, whatever sounds good. After a few miles, chopped barbecue sandwiches are hard to beat. But Zingers, Twinkies, candy bars, chocolate mile, Gatorade, Mountain Dew, Moon Pies, Rice Krispie bars, fried pies, Zebra cakes....the list goes on.
And a couple of other thoughts. On the possibility of randonneuring, that can be a lonely endeavor if you're slow. Except that if you're female, you may find it a lot easier to round up some company. If you're interested, check with the local group, tell 'em you're interested in a 200k, but don't want to be stuck in the boonies by yourself, either. They'll either say "Tough!" or let you know how they work things to avoid that. I've spent some time riding with slower riders, Homey has also, but then again Machka has told about doing a lot of rides solo at one of her Canadian clubs, so these things vary from place to place. The second thought: look into a tandem deal, particularly in randonneuring. I say this because about half the rando guys I know own tandems, but stokers are hard to find. Put out the word that you're interested, and you may find some opportunities there.
On randonneuring rides, I just gobble down crap from the convenience stores, whatever sounds good. After a few miles, chopped barbecue sandwiches are hard to beat. But Zingers, Twinkies, candy bars, chocolate mile, Gatorade, Mountain Dew, Moon Pies, Rice Krispie bars, fried pies, Zebra cakes....the list goes on.
And a couple of other thoughts. On the possibility of randonneuring, that can be a lonely endeavor if you're slow. Except that if you're female, you may find it a lot easier to round up some company. If you're interested, check with the local group, tell 'em you're interested in a 200k, but don't want to be stuck in the boonies by yourself, either. They'll either say "Tough!" or let you know how they work things to avoid that. I've spent some time riding with slower riders, Homey has also, but then again Machka has told about doing a lot of rides solo at one of her Canadian clubs, so these things vary from place to place. The second thought: look into a tandem deal, particularly in randonneuring. I say this because about half the rando guys I know own tandems, but stokers are hard to find. Put out the word that you're interested, and you may find some opportunities there.
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"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
#65
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Speed
Accepting the frustration of riding with too fast a group, a slower groups are always an alternative. But to ride faster requires speed training. Intensity training is key. Cadence and gear ratio interval training works. There will always be a faster group, you need to know what you want from yourself. If speed is desired, I vote for interval training too.
#66
Senior Member
My local clubs (I'm a dues paying member of both the Louisville Bike Club and the Southern Indiana Wheelmen) have rides where the pace is relaxed and the ride stops at a boutique coffee shop or even a Southern cooking place like Claudia Sanders. These rides are pretty challenging. I'm usually so whipped by the time I get to the restaurant that all I get is a drink and some nibbles. How these guys can chow down a Hot Brown and not blow it on the next hill is beyond me.
These guys are in great shape. One of the ride captains is 82 and can go forever.
So, I think it is a false dichotomy where your choices are either 1) hammer until you spew, or 2) piddle until you die. There really is a happy medium.
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Momento mori, amor fati.
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#67
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FWIW. Pete Penseyres held the RAAM record and was expecting to see it challenged by Jonathan Boyer, a TdF rider, the next year. In order to try to beat Boyer, Penseyres trained hard by riding faster, not longer. When the race came Boyer decided not to race but Penseyres set a new record thanks to his speed training. The year was 1986 and the record was 8 days 9 hours and 47 min. I believe it still stands. Average speed was 15.4 mph.
Last edited by bruce19; 02-04-12 at 09:18 AM.
#68
Senior Member
FWIW. Pete Penseyres held the RAAM record and was expecting to see it challenged by Jonathan Boyer, a TdF rider, the next year. In order to try to beat Boyer, Penseyres trained hard by riding faster, not longer. When the race came Boyer decided not to race but Penseyres set a new record thanks to his speed training. The year was 1986 and the record was 8 days 9 hours and 47 min. I believe it still stands. Average speed was 15.4 mph.
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FWIW. Pete Penseyres held the RAAM record and was expecting to see it challenged by Jonathan Boyer, a TdF rider, the next year. In order to try to beat Boyer, Penseyres trained hard by riding faster, not longer. When the race came Boyer decided not to race but Penseyres set a new record thanks to his speed training. The year was 1986 and the record was 8 days 9 hours and 47 min. I believe it still stands. Average speed was 15.4 mph.
It’s only been three days now since that post, but I’ve become energized to keep up the routine as described, and it’s another incentive to get out and ride.
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Lots of good advice here. Also work on leg strength and pedaling technique. When you are spinning or riding outside, work on pedaling technique and practice until it's automatic. While you're at the gym for spin, take a few minutes to work on quad and glute strength with weights. Here is a pretty good video on pedaling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z04uo...eature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z04uo...eature=related
#71
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Where this gets confusing, and sometimes a bit misleading, is that these folks had an enormous base of riding before they worked on the element of speed. I think for the mere >50 mortal, there is no substitute for building up the base. Speed comes later, and for some of us, never at all
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Find a bike club that has speed groups, c,b,a...insane and fall in with a group that you are comfortable with. Our club rule on the "slower" groups is not to leave a rider. If we have to wait a couple of minutes it's not the worst thing.
#73
I need speed
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My local clubs (I'm a dues paying member of both the Louisville Bike Club and the Southern Indiana Wheelmen) have rides where the pace is relaxed and the ride stops at a boutique coffee shop or even a Southern cooking place like Claudia Sanders. These rides are pretty challenging. I'm usually so whipped by the time I get to the restaurant that all I get is a drink and some nibbles. How these guys can chow down a Hot Brown and not blow it on the next hill is beyond me.
These guys are in great shape. One of the ride captains is 82 and can go forever.
So, I think it is a false dichotomy where your choices are either 1) hammer until you spew, or 2) piddle until you die. There really is a happy medium.
#74
I need speed
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Where this gets confusing, and sometimes a bit misleading, is that these folks had an enormous base of riding before they worked on the element of speed. I think for the mere >50 mortal, there is no substitute for building up the base. Speed comes later, and for some of us, never at all
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Another vote for intervals. I've had a similar issue as the OP so on my solo lunch time rides I started doing short sprint intervals about every 3 miles. The sprints only last about 15 seconds but my speed gets up to 29mph. After a month of doing this I graduated from the 18-20mph group ride to the 20-22 group that often gets up to 24mph on a 20 mile ride. I still have to work to keep up but I'm rarely at the back and almost always have enough left in the tank to sprint finish.
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