Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

What I Least Expected: Fear

Search
Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

What I Least Expected: Fear

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-03-12, 08:32 PM
  #1  
I need more cowbell.
Thread Starter
 
Digital Gee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 8,182

Bikes: 2015 Specialized Sirrus Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What I Least Expected: Fear

This is a difficult post to write (and post). It's embarrassing, frankly.

I'm having a problem with my new bike: fear. It's really a first for me; although I had some fear when I first went clipless back on the Roubiax, it went away pretty quickly.

Then I set bikes aside for about 2-3 years. As most of you know, I got bit by the bug again and took the plunge on a beautiful Masi - best bike I've ever owned.

Then, on my first ride, I tombayed. Nothing spectacular, just a bit of knee scraping, and it was also in a parking lot where I was in little danger.

I've taken the bike out only twice (business travel has gotten in the way), and both times to a MUP around a small reservoir nearby. Oddly, despite all the foot traffic, roller bladers, strollers, etc., I did not have much fear.

Since then, several things have happened.

One, I've been reading all the posts on 50+, and there are so many that have to do with riders getting hit, riders being hard to see, etc. There have been quite a few accounts of people falling, or getting hit, and breaking bones, etc. The cumulative effect on me is that I have started thinking, "Wonder when my time will come?"

Two, I live in a really crowded neighborhood, with streets that have lots of crap on the right side of the lane, and few, if any, bike lanes. It's a lot of stop and go at lights, and there are PLENTY of cars.

Three, I'm simply not comfortable with these darn M520's. I can't understand it - I rode 3,000 miles on them before. I darted in and out of traffic in a different but still car-crowded urban neighborhood.

Four, I'm not quite comfortable on the bike. Not in a physical way, it fits fine. More of a "simply getting used to this bike" kind of way.

I feel like I've regressed or something!

All of which has stunned me because I hadn't anticipated it whatsoever. I find myself having to talk myself into taking a ride. Then, throughout the ride, I am focused so much on making sure I'm going to clip out in time for the light, and how close that car was to me, that I am not enjoying it like I used to.

Although I haven't had a legitimate panic attack, it feels like I'm on the verge.

Bike stores are closed tomorrow, Sunday, but I think early next week I'm going to see about getting a platform adaptor for the pedals, and not riding clipless for a while. That and a mirror of some sort. The only rides that I can imagine right now that would be pleasurable would be somewhere there is no traffic whatsoever. And no people, no other bikes, no nothing.

Not likely I'll find a place like that!
__________________
2015 Sirrus Elite

Proud member of the original Club Tombay
Digital Gee is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 08:40 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
NCbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I would suggest you put a pair of good platform pedal on the bike and get some miles on it. You can always come back to the clipless once you are more comfortable.
NCbiker is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 08:50 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Mobile 155's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex
Posts: 5,058

Bikes: 2013 Haro FL Comp 29er MTB.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1470 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 45 Times in 35 Posts
Do what you have to do DG. I use a helmet mirror everyday except if I happen to be racing. Bar end mirrors seem to work pretty well for some. I don't have the traffic problems you do but there is one street downtown I avoid simply because of the number of right hooks I see on that street. But that doesn't stop me from finding another way to get to point B.
Mobile 155 is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 08:51 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
CbadRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the bridge with Picard
Posts: 5,932

Bikes: Specialized Allez, Specialized Sirrus

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
SPD platform/clipless pedals. It's a nice, big platform pedal with an SPD clip on one side. I have them on my hybrid bike.

As for the panic attacks, don't dwell too much on "what if's". You could get hit by a bus while walking or have a drunk driver hit you while you are driving.

Choose the route with the least traffic. If that doesn't work, can you drive to a MUP where you would be able to ride without having to deal with cars?
__________________
Originally Posted by Xerum 525
Now get on your cheap bike and give me a double century. You walking can of Crisco!!

Forum Guidelines *click here*
CbadRider is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 08:56 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Shall we all start posting about our non-cycling relatives and friends who have sedentary lifestyle diseases? Then you can be rightfully afraid of sitting on the couch.

I won't belittle your fears, they are real. Sure, you've lost some strength, fitness and balance during your hiatus, but those will come back. In a year or so you will wonder what you were so concerned about. Put some platforms on the Masi and get rolling. Heck, go full retro and get some toe-clips and straps. (They are much more secure than platforms alone.)

Negative interactions with cars aren't all that frequent and actual contact is rarer still. The joy will return as your riding speed and skill come back to you.
B. Carfree is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 09:26 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Dudelsack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: South Hutchinson Island
Posts: 6,647

Bikes: Lectric Xpedition.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Liked 96 Times in 46 Posts
When I used to ride MTBs I had an IBS flare before each ride.

When I took up road riding, I didn't so much, even though statistically it was not quite as safe.

When I got my bent I got downright nervous before each ride. I still haven't gotten over it.

Even so, I've put in close to 500 miles on the bent over the winter.

We all get The Fear sooner or later. Maybe it will get better with time. I think the key is that what you are experiencing is very common.

I pretend I'm much safer by decking out my bike with running lights, and dressing like Bozo the Clown.

So hang in there. And HTFU.
__________________
Momento mori, amor fati.




Dudelsack is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 09:29 PM
  #7  
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Posts: 13,560

Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 22 Posts
The benefits of clipless pedals are real, but they are not remotely important enough to let stand in the way of your feeling comfortable riding a bike.
BluesDawg is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 09:35 PM
  #8  
Pedaled too far.
 
Artkansas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Petite Roche
Posts: 12,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
I felt somewhat the same way after I was bikejacked in L.A by two different gangs at the same time. The next night, I cut 10 minutes time off a 50 minute bicycle commute on paranoia alone, and that was going from my nice bike to my beater bike.

But I was not going to let fear stop me from cycling.

It took miles, but the feelings slowly went back into the now instead of into the fear, and I enjoy biking once more and don't fear.
__________________
"He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

Originally Posted by Bjforrestal
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
Artkansas is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 09:42 PM
  #9  
I need more cowbell.
Thread Starter
 
Digital Gee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 8,182

Bikes: 2015 Specialized Sirrus Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
All the responses so far have been very helpful, thanks. I was a little hesitant to post anything at all, because one part of my brain was telling the other part that I was just being silly, and that I should "man up" and just get out there.

So it's good to know I'm not the only one who's had this issue. I do think I'll temporarily swap out the clipless for platforms, because I think that's at the root of the problem more than dealing with traffic. That, and not having a mirror which I'll also fix.

I do know one thing: there's NO way I'm not going to ride, whatsoever. Not just because I've got a lot invested in the bike, either. But because I truly LOVED cycling a few years ago, I want that feeling back, and I want all the fitness and health benefits as well. So I think the answer is pretty simple: get some platforms, get a mirror, and get my confidence back.

Thanks, all.
__________________
2015 Sirrus Elite

Proud member of the original Club Tombay
Digital Gee is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 10:13 PM
  #10  
Pedaled too far.
 
Artkansas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Petite Roche
Posts: 12,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
You can do it. Fear is just the mental equivalent of a headwind.

Can you use the pedals from the Globe? They should fit.
__________________
"He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

Originally Posted by Bjforrestal
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
Artkansas is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 10:52 PM
  #11  
I need more cowbell.
Thread Starter
 
Digital Gee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 8,182

Bikes: 2015 Specialized Sirrus Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Artkansas
You can do it. Fear is just the mental equivalent of a headwind.

Can you use the pedals from the Globe? They should fit.
I thought about that. I'm going to have to see if I can find the pedal wrench I know I used to have. Also didn't know if the pedal extensions I have on the Masi would complicate things. I'm SO not a wrench!
__________________
2015 Sirrus Elite

Proud member of the original Club Tombay
Digital Gee is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 11:14 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New York and Florida
Posts: 250

Bikes: Surly LHT, Trek 2100, Trek 7000 (1995 or so) Trek 7000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm glad to see you had the courage to post what to you is troublesome feelings. Good to hear that everyone has good advice. I have pedals with clipins on one side and a platform on the other, so I can go both ways. I find as a touring guy that I just don't need the fear of not unclipping at lights and in difficult situations. I'm not exactly running at high efficiency anyway.

As to traffic, this turned me off where I was riding, and I have to spend a lot more time planning where I will ride, as I refuse to get on roads with lousy shoulders and fast traffic.

Your concerns regarding being hit by a car are well founded. You should be concerned, there are a lot of bad drivers out there. Your fear needs to be converted to vigilance. In time your confidence will grow as your skills return.

Other than that, man-up, stop whining and just ride the damn thing...
lhendrick is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 11:18 PM
  #13  
I need more cowbell.
Thread Starter
 
Digital Gee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 8,182

Bikes: 2015 Specialized Sirrus Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lhendrick

Other than that, man-up, stop whining and just ride the damn thing...
__________________
2015 Sirrus Elite

Proud member of the original Club Tombay
Digital Gee is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 11:18 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Mobile 155's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex
Posts: 5,058

Bikes: 2013 Haro FL Comp 29er MTB.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1470 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 45 Times in 35 Posts
If you have the same pedal extensions I had they have a flat side for your wrench. They were a pain to get off my Look pedals however. But the extensions and pedals will be easy to get off.
Mobile 155 is offline  
Old 03-03-12, 11:54 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Doug64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,489
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1182 Post(s)
Liked 833 Times in 435 Posts
Wen you go back to clipless pedals, you might try adjusting the tension setting to the lightest setting possible, almost to where the bolt falls out.

A couple of years ago I was saved from what I think would have been a serious crash by accidentally using pedals set up this way. I put new pedals on my wife's bike, and put her old ones on my touring bike. She adjusts the tension on her pedals so light her foot almost falls out. Several weeks later we were in the middle of a tour along the California Coast. We were both fully loaded, and I was drafting behind her when I touched her back wheel with my front wheel. As any of you who have done this knows, the guy in the back is going down. We were riding beside a ditch that was about 12 feet deep. As I was going over, I remember thinking "this is going to hurt. As I came in contact with the road shoulder both of my feet came out of the pedals and I landed on the slope into the ditch. I slid all the way to the bottom--- on top of about a foot of freshly mowed grass. If my feet had not come free of the pedals so easily, I would have probably had most of my contact with the road shoulder. In this case it worked out well. I guess if the ditch bank was mostly rocks or had not been mowed, it would be another story. As it turned out I did not even have a scratch. the point is loosen the tension!
Doug64 is offline  
Old 03-04-12, 12:26 AM
  #16  
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,873

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds. 2019 Giant Explore E+3

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1795 Post(s)
Liked 1,269 Times in 876 Posts
I think there gets to be a point where one realizes they don't have coordination, balance etc. that they had when younger.
Personally, I never had those to start with, and have ALWAYS stuck to platform pedals.

I find that during the winter, when I ride much less, the "fear factor" is much greater.
I think being off the bike for a couple years definitely makes a difference. Add a NEW bike to the equation and I don't think you are experiencing anything that abnormal.
You'd probably be somewhat paranoid if you hopped on the old bike after a couple riderless years.
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 03-04-12, 12:35 AM
  #17  
Time for a change.
 
stapfam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Posts: 19,913

Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Looking at it logically- All you have to do is train. Pedals and there are ways to get over the problem by loosening the Tension or even going back to platforms.

But the Fear of being hit. It is remote. It can happen but you have an advantage in that you know the problem is there. You will be keeping your eyes open for the car that is going to get in your way- You will spot the driver that is being erratic- you know the places where a car can pull out of a junction in front of or into you. That gives you a big advantage over the over- confident cyclist and most definitely the arrogant ones. That advantage has given you a 99.999% chance that you are not going to be hit.

Only thing is the .001% that you cannot cater for. And that could happen if you walk down to the beach to take the pics of the Local Fauna that we still have not had yet.
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


Spike Milligan
stapfam is offline  
Old 03-04-12, 12:50 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
volosong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 2,809

Bikes: n + 1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Digital Gee
...and a mirror of some sort.
Even though it is designed for a mountain bike, for years I rode with a Mirrycle MTB Bar End Bicycle Mirror. Don't have one on my current steed, and really miss it. It looks kinda dumb and Freddish, but being able to see behind with a quick glance down is quite useful at times. Only real problem is that the thing sticks out so you can't lean your bike against the side of a building on the side you mount the mirror. And ... sometimes the allen bolts loosten, so it might be useful to carry the supplied allen wrench in your seat pack.
volosong is offline  
Old 03-04-12, 05:01 AM
  #19  
Boomer
 
maddmaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,214

Bikes: Diamondback Clarity II frame homebuilt.

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16098 Post(s)
Liked 1,457 Times in 1,064 Posts
Sometimes it's good to have a bike rack on the car so that you can take the bike somewhere "nicer" to ride.
__________________
maddmaxx is offline  
Old 03-04-12, 07:01 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
John_V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 5,585

Bikes: 2017 Colnago C-RS, 2012 Colnago Ace, 2010 Giant Cypress hybrid

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 408 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 85 Posts
Damn, now I feel kind of responsible for your fears after posting about the three cyclist getting hit. Although no one can really know how you feel, there have been some good suggestions here to help you overcome your anxiety about riding. Maybe the platform adapters are the first step in overcoming your anxiety by knowing that you are not connected to your bike in the event something happens.

I had a very similar experience when it came to riding with clipless pedals. After the four falls (in one day) I had practicing clipping in and unclipping, I put the platform adapters on the road bike and road it that way for about two weeks. I set the tension on the platforms to the highest setting so they won't come out if I twisted my foot. In the meantime, I would practice the clipping and unclipping motion on the platform adapters while riding in regular shoes, each time I came to a stop or made a U-Turn. At the end of the two weeks, I was doing the clipping in and out motion without thinking about it, even though I was still riding on the platform adapters. This really helped build my confidence to the point that I took off the adapters and started riding clipless and have not looked back. I still use the adapters on the road bike when doing my Saturday club rides since it is a slow, casual ride that involves a lot of clipping in and out for too darn many stop lights and stop signs. The numerous stops don't bother me, as far as the clipping in and out goes, it's just that I don't feel like unclipping right after I just got done clipping in a block away.

As for being involved in a crash with a vehicle, that can happen even when you are in your car or walking down to the corner store. As a prostate cancer survivor battling leukemia, I have found that you don't worry about what you can't control. if you do, it will drive you nuts. You can't control the actions of others but you can control yours. You can practice clipping in and out of the pedals, as I did. You can ride on less crowed roads until you feel more comfortable riding in traffic again. You can drive to the MUP with your bike on a rack, as I do, if you feel uncomfortable riding the bike there.

Just hang in there, it will come to you. Just don't let your anxiety override your love for cycling. Besides you just bought that bike and it would be a shame to let it sit in the garage collecting dust and spiderwebs.
__________________
HCFR Cycling Team
Ride Safe ... Ride Hard ... Ride Daily

2017 Colnago C-RS
2012 Colnago Ace
2010 Giant Cypress
John_V is offline  
Old 03-04-12, 07:02 AM
  #21  
Don from Austin Texas
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,211

Bikes: Schwinn S25 "department store crap" FS MTB, home-made CF 26" hybrid, CF road bike with straight bar, various wierd frankenbikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
There is no law that says you have to ride clipped in. I have thousands of miles on platform pedals and steel-toed work shoes. I have a nice pair of shoes and SPD pedals. The SPD pedals are on a replacement bike that belongs to a riding partner who got her bike stolen. She keeps telling me that she needs to pay me for them or give them back to me and I keep telling her I don't care -- I never learned them and probably never will. I go on group rides with people 40 years younger riding their Cervelos and I am not the first to roll in, but I am far from the last. Down the road and if you are bored and looking for a challenge or you want to race you can take off the platforms. Here's my favorite platform pedal: https://www.treefortbikes.com/product...m-Pedals,.html
Don in Austin is offline  
Old 03-04-12, 07:09 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Northwestrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Posts: 2,470

Bikes: Surly Long Haul Trucker, Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo, Dahon Mu P 24 , Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Rodriguez Tandem, Wheeler MTB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
platform pedals.
Northwestrider is offline  
Old 03-04-12, 07:12 AM
  #23  
Galveston County Texas
 
10 Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Posts: 33,222

Bikes: 02 GTO, 2011 Magnum

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1350 Post(s)
Liked 1,245 Times in 623 Posts
40,000 miles with these. I don't ride without a mirror.



From a bike messenger in NY
https://www.messengermirror.com/
__________________
Fred "The Real Fred"

10 Wheels is offline  
Old 03-04-12, 07:24 AM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Capitol Hill, Washington, DC
Posts: 1,503

Bikes: Specialized Tricross Comp, Custom Steel Sport Touring, Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0 SL

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by CbadRider
SPD platform/clipless pedals. It's a nice, big platform pedal with an SPD clip on one side. I have them on my hybrid bike.
+1 M320s. I have been riding them for years. Until you get comfortable again ride on the platform sides in the stop and go areas and clip in only when you are comfortable.
donheff is offline  
Old 03-04-12, 07:25 AM
  #25  
Watching and waiting.
 
jethro56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Mattoon,Ill
Posts: 2,023

Bikes: Trek 7300 Trek Madone 4.5 Surly Cross Check

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I suggest next weekend or whenever your schedule allows, go to somewhere there's a long paved trail.(During the week would be better if it's busy) and just ride as much as you can for as many days as you can. You've put four things on your plate. Riding, new bike, traffic and clipless. Tackle them one at a time with traffic being after the trip(s).
jethro56 is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.