I am not that far along yet. I have two college student daughters at home and one freeloading sponge fiance in the basement. He is actually a good kid. Just needs a break while shedding student loan debt. I am 100% in favor of helping them get established with as little debt as possible.

Yeah, that's the thing: My older son, whom we've been helping, dropped out after the first year of school. We managed to pay that off in full right away so at least there is no debt.

"Some kids go too far away too soon and never live with or near their parents again."
I'm going to miss mine one day, thinking of them all grown up and out in the world. Its too quiet when thier both gone now and hopefully one day they'll realize how much i enjoyed thier friendship. Everyones situation is a little different and wish you all the best with your own.

Happy St. Patricks Day :thumb:

My youngest stayed till he completed college plus a bit longer to get established at work. Then he bought a condo and moved out. Today he has my former job..:rolleyes:

The oldest works overseas contracts. He's welcome to stay a short while if he's back in the country. He came back after a 5 year contract in Japan and stayed for almost a year before heading out again.

My son just announced that their third is on the way so he is thinking of moving to the burbs (better public schools all the way through HS). I like having them 5 minutes walking distance.

My point of view is that I agree with everyone else and their individual point of view. Reminds me of a friend who was running for office and used the slogan "I agree with you."

[QUOTE=Doohickie;14167345]There is more to the story that I am not going into detail about here. But his situation is probably a little different than most.

I'm actually proud that he was able to support himself (barely) while he was up there; he never once asked for money.

I think his coming back is the right thing. I am a little nervous about the decision to put him up when he gets back; it may turn into a longer term thing than I intend. In his situation, though, alternatives are potentially pretty dire, so given the choice, I will choose being taken advantage of.

The thing is, most kids grow up, move out, move on and take care of themselves. For people with kids like that, more power to ya. However, there can be conditions beyond your control that keeps a kid out of that upward trajectory. It's a tough call, really, whether to offer help, and how much help to offer. I very well could be making a mistake. Offering no help at all may be a mistake. Maybe I made an unrecognized mistake 17 years ago which has influenced the current situation. It's hard, when faced with the undesired outcome, to figure out the best way forward.

My son's situation is not drugs, but let's say, shadoman, that your son moved out, then got into drugs. If you could see the downward spiral he was on, would you truly say, "Well, you shoulda been ready to go, 'cause there's no coming back"? Or, if you were in a position to assist, would you?

These are the kinds of questions I am trying to answer right now. When the kids work out, it's easy to say the hardass way was best. In the relationship with my son, the time I got all hardass on him only made the situation worse.


Hi Doohickie,
We had a situation where our son lived wth his girlfriend for a year, married her, bought (with our help) a house, had a baby and a year later was separated and back home "for a little while." That little while became 3 years and frankly was awful.
An adult child who had already been away for a few years is different than one who never left. And when we made suggestions or offered polite criticism once he was back, all hell broke loose! It was at the point where I wanted to give him 2 months to find his own place, and my wife was against doing that, that he met wife number 2 and moved in with her! What a relief that was!
I don't want to bore you with the next 10 years, but he ended up somewhat of a mess (basically had a breakdown) and we ended up bringing him home again. While that was no panacea by any means (:(), it got him on the road to recovery. For thew last five years he has been mentally healthy, very happy, and recently re-married with our second grandchild scheduled to arrive in September (when our son will be a month from 44, and our grandson 20). Our son went from being the Chief Nuclear Medicine Technologist at a very prestigious hospital to being a car salesman, and is happier than a pig in s..t. And we are thrilled with how his life has turned out.
So, today we are still extremely close with him, take vacations with him/them, and life is good. The point is we have to love them, provide guidance, mainly when asked (!), and hope they end up happy and healthy. All else is BS.

Best regards

This is a really interesting thread covering an issue I'm conflicted about.

On the one hand I left home early, made my way in life and never looked back. I married, raised a family and had a reasonable career. The downside was my life was on the west coast and my parents on the east coast. My siblings, on the other hand, struggled to get traction as adults. Both were in and out of my parents house multiple times. My mother was an enabler, my father wanted tough love. It ruined their marriage. Neither sibling, a brother and sister, had a great life. My brother died of alcoholism in his 30's and sister died of an what was called an accidental overdose in her early 40's. Not an experience you'd want as a parent. Did my mom's enabling contribute? Would my dad's desired tough love early in their lives have been better? No way to know now but it definitely influences the way I think about parenting.

I have two daughters, one in college and the other on her way this fall. Both are excellent students in rigorous academic environments. My wife and I have done as much as we can to ensure they get the best education possible. We are considering selling our family home in the burbs this summer and downsizing to more of a resort area. We're conflicted about it and have the obvious concerns about the girls finding gainful employment after they graduate. If they were to come "home" to the new area their employment options would be limited. Would it be better for them if we stayed here? I'm inclined to make the move as it will be a better lifestyle and financial situation for my wife and I. That said it's a risk.

So this is a topic that has my attention. I think it's unfortunate that the "norm" for many is what's been called a nuclear family where the kids pursue a successful career at the cost of being geographically close to their family. For good or bad that's what I did. But I also watched my siblings fail in a way that didn't make sense and believe the safety net of "home" may have contributed. This parenting stuff is serious s**t at times.

Wow!! Looks like P&R suddenly.

Wow, good points made. I also worry about our daughter's future. I guess every parent does. The fact that my wife and I are older, in our mid 50s while she is just 12 complicates matters. Will we be here if she needed us later in life? What if she marries a jerk and has to start over? I look at career paths that would provide the most security for her, while she wants to save the dolphins. I can't choose her way, she has to find it. I want her to be happy, but I also want her to be secure. At some point we as parents do have to live our lives too. It's a fine line. I feel for every parent that worries about their child's welfare, especially after a time it was hoped that they would have found their place. I really feel there are no right answers. There are too many variables that can affect any situation. We do the best we can and our children have to take it from there.

One thing I've had to learn is this: Our kids are not us. There are personality parallels- my older son is similar in temperament to me; my younger son is more like my wife. As a result, I have more friction with the older son, my wife and younger son sometimes get testy with each other. I get along better with my younger son and my wife gets on well with the older son. (Basically, opposites attract.)

So when my older son went away to college (like I did) I figured he could handle it (like I did) because he got straight A's in high school (like I did). If I'd gotten poor grades I would have expected to get chewed out. So that's what I did when my older son faltered. But... he isn't me. Although he and I are a lot alike, he has his mom's propensity for anxiety and even panic attacks. So when I gave him the tough love it started an avalanche of self-doubt and depression for him. It took him literally years to get over it and he's still not all the way yet. But for him, tough love turned out to be the absolute worst thing I could have given him.

Until it unfolded, though, there really wasn't any way to know. You act on your own experiences and up to when my son dropped out of college, he'd never failed at anything. I didn't know how he would react to tough love, or whether unconditional support would have been better for him. Funny thing about parenting- you get new things thrown at you. If you treat your kids like you at that age, you might think it's the right thing, but it's exactly the wrong thing.

Amen, Brother. I learned that the hard way, too.

My son Tom is 31 and was dealt a really sh**ty hand in his first year at University aged 19. It started with some eyesight problems which were eventually found to be caused by brain tumours near the crossover of the optic nerves and the pineal gland. Radiotherapy got rid of the tumours but he has been left partially sighted and needing daily hormone injections and cortisone tablets.


Despite this he returned to university after missing a year, got his degree and found employment. Been made redundant a couple of times but persevered and got new jobs. He left home about 6 years ago to live in a house-share with friends in a more lively part of town, where the public transport was better (he can't drive or cycle anymore due to his eyesight).



Last October the landlord sold the house so Tom decided it was time he looked for a place of his own and looked for an apartment to buy. We said that to help him save some money why not move back in with us until he found an apartment.


He did this and we've loved every minute of having him around. He fills the house when he's here.


This week we've been helping him decorate his new apartment and he'll be moving out again in a couple of days. While we know it's good for him we'll both be sad to say so long again but happy to see him move forward.

Very true Retro. One of my daughters moved back home, with her four rabbits. Actually I kind like having her around. She is a good person.

"Life is what happens while we're busy making other plans." -- After nearly 36 years of marriage my wife and I are getting divorced. I plan to buy her out of the house (I like my house). It will be nice having some company. My daughter and her rabbits will be a nice distraction.

This is not what I had planned for this stage of my life, but I am playing the cards that I have been dealt.

[QUOTE=eja_ bottecchia;15406749
This is not what I had planned for this stage of my life, but I am playing the cards that I have been dealt.[/QUOTE]

Very true eja_bottecchia, Re: Playing the Cards: My wife divorced me after 24 years and in retrospect it was a wonderful gift (though it didn't seem like it at the time, for sure).

I was able to move out of St. Louis and into Southern CA, had fun dating several wonderful women, finally found the perfect one for me (yes, she is a cyclist!) and am now living happily ever after.

Re: Kids, They are out on their own and doing fine (one is a dentist in Kansas City, the other works for U.S. Government Intelligence in Wash. DC) but unfortunately, and even though I tried to bring them up right, neither is a cyclist.

Rick / OCRR

Aw, crap. I'm sorry to hear that. You've got the right attitude, though.

We're about to be empty nesters.

My daughter is fiercely independent, but she might take a job locally as an intern for the opportunity it presents. At $100/week, that means living at home with us. Am I OK with that? I'd be thrilled.

The son is about to head off to college himself, so if she doesn't return, empty nest it is.

I think the way it works for me is this. If my kid is responsible, hard working and disciplined, I know that the living at home arrangement is temporary, and I'll embrace it. If I suspect my kid is irresponsible, lazy and undisciplined, I suspect that the arrangement is at least semi permanent, and I'll hate it. It's my job as a parent's (well, at least a goal) to prepare my kids to be self sufficient and happy. I'd feel as if I failed them.

I also think there is also a cultural component ... children are expected to live at home until they marry in a lot of places.

A guy I ride with, who's from Mexico, is running into that right now. He's moving into his own place at 25 and his parents are kind of upset about it.

Tried it myself when I got out of the navy. Dad tolerated it for a couple of months then threw my sorry ass out. Best thing he could have done for me.

Maturity is finally getting where your old man is coming from.

Wife's daughter graduated from college on the ten year plan with a mountain of student debt. I tolerate her because she keeps the kitchen clean.

Eldest son (now 42) came back for a brief stay in his early 20's - just a convenience while he was making other arrangements, so NBD.

Youngest son is turning 21 next month, and something that is rearing it's head is the fact that it's OUR house and things will happen according to the standards of OUR lifestyles, not those of a 21-year-old single male. My wife and I are dealing with that, and as he's maturing nicely we expect that his remaining time at home with us will be amicable, but the inevitable restrictions (no, you and your friends cannot occupy our family room for the entire evening watching movies and drinking beer ;)) should make it obvious that other living arrangements are to THEIR benefit. The same will hold true if either of them finds the need to return to the nest. It's OUR nest, and they are VISITORS and will need to respect our space - we don't need to, nor do we intend to respect our home as THEIR space. Their presence (even with the younger who hasn't yet launched) is a temporary, transient and hopefully short-lived situation that we, as parents are happy to arrange, just as we would if we were to loan them a piece of yard equipment or some money for a security deposit on an apartment, or any of the dozens of other things we do to help our kids get launched. But the message is, and should be continue to be "you're moving on, right? -and that's sooner rather than later, right?" :)

Reverse empty nester?
I tell my son that I'm going to reverse empty nest on him. Thats where I retire from work sleep on his couch till noon and eat all his pizza. Than have the balls to ask him for 10 bucks for gas so I can go out with my friends and play cards.
He now has a better paying job than me and lives where it's warm.

The amount of $ required to move out on your own is far different than when I was young. In my part of the world rent requires not just a job, but a good paying job. Having said all that my wife and I always told our grown children they were welcome to move back any time, our home is still their home. Both have made it very well on their own and out earn both my wife and I!

A slight twist, my oldest wants us to move in with her and her family, very sweet of of her. My wife and I feel very lucky with our two kids.

Boy I remember that one! I was out of the Army and college but just getting back on my feet workwise. There are some things you just can't do in your parents house. Definite advantages to having your own place. I have to remember back to our "discussions" when Dad would say "this is our house and you'll do as I say as long as your under our roof". Funny the older I get the wiser he was, wish I had realized that then. Thanks Dad for giving us what we needed. We miss you. He would have been 77 this month.

My daughter moved back home after graduating from college, while she attends law school. We paid for her undergraduate education in total, but told her she would have to borrow money and/or get scholarships for grad school. However, to help out, we told her she could live at home if she went to the law school in our town. She got a scholarship at the local law school, so she is not having to borrow too much money while living at home. I am more than glad to help her out in that way, and we are much better off financially than if we were paying for her tuition and books. She is also learning some responsibility by paying for law school costs, and it has actually motivated her to get more scholarship money. She is ranked #1 in her class after two years, so I feel that it's been a good compromise.

That said, it has been an adjustment with my daughter back home -- more so for my wife than me. My wife does not get along as well with our daughter as me, and she is much less tolerant of any disruptions due to dirty dishes, clutter, TV watching, etc. Things will be easier for us once my daughter starts working and gets her own apartment or home, but I am truly glad that decided to move back home for a while.

When my dad kicked me out at 21 it was into an environment where good paying factory jobs were still available, and I got one of them.

Wife’s daughter went into hock to get an undergraduate degree that is of little use without a graduate degree. I got an education at the same State University she attended and amassed less than a quarter of the debt doing it. (California started abandoning funding its best in the nation public universities shortly after I finished.) There are not as many good jobs available now, as were available to me. Fortunately, she and my wife are best friends, and have always been close. Bio-dad makes more than I do, and helps a little, though I wish it were more.

So. He moved back out last month. :thumb:

That brings us back to semi-empty-nestdomm. My younger son is still in the house. He graduated with his undergrad in December and starts grad school this fall. We're pretty sure he'll be living on/near campus so we'll be empty again.

Last of the kids moved out about 6 years ago, but this summer, we have one moving back. My youngest daughter is just finishing her masters degree overseas, and plans to move in with mom and dad while job hunting.

In his book 'Fatherhood' Bill Cosby asserts that humans are the only animals stupid enough to allow their kids to move back in after they have left the nest.

That said, we are looking forward to having our baby back for a little while.

My Daughter and I both went to the same University (University of California) - although I got in-state rates, and for half of her time she was out-of-state. After a bachelors, I ended up with about $10K in debt, she had 5X that amount when she graduated. OTOH, she is expecting a starting salary which is about 5X what I got 35 years ago, so it may not be that bad.

My degree was in engineering. I graduated (Long Beach State) into a soft job market that it took me six months to get a job in that field. Her degree from Northridge was in sociology, and she ran out of money for a graduate degree. She just got a job in that field since this thread died it's first death, after almost five years of selling cosmetics in a department store, which she was doing to help pay for college.

Are you kidding me about parents kick their kids out of the house these days . Too many parents have this idea they just want to be friends with their kids .

can't believe my son is moving out for college in the fall and breaking up the family :cry: