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-   -   Foot Angle (https://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus-50/839383-foot-angle.html)

Terex 08-18-12 08:24 PM

If you want form that elicits comments of envy and develops massive power, sit on a Keiser spin bike, or your bike on a trainer or rollers, in front of a mirror, and focus on keeping an absolutely still upper body while doing massive efforts. Oh, and you've got to do this a lot. And ride a lot too, of course.

Riding at your absolute top effort, in a fixed position, more quickly develops beautiful, efficient form than trying to do the same thing on the road, even on a fixie. It's similar to the over speed efforts used by swimmers in a forced current pool or using elastic cords.

Having a power meter, or some indication of power (as with the Keiser spin bike) really helps. The power doesn't lie. Even if you're really in tune with your body, power measurements give you the ability to track your progress, and a measure that you can continually work to surpass.

berner 08-20-12 02:41 PM

I change my grip on the bars from hoods to flats behind the hoods and sometimes even ride the drops for a while. Sometimes I sit smack in the middle of the saddle but will scoot forward or up toward the nose, mostly without thought depending merely on what feels right at the moment. I tend to pedal with the foot flat which feels as if I'm pedaling heel down. My calves tend to cramp on longer rides so I've lately begun to change it up when I feel the first hints of a cramp by pedaling toe down. This seems to be working to keep cramps from beginning.

Since we all have various abilities and disabilities, I see no reason why any one particular form or technique should suit everyone. If there is a single technique for everyone it is to be as smooth as possible. The French call this "souplesse". What feels smooth for me may not be the most smooth for anyone else. This really should not be any big surprise.

Bob Ross 08-21-12 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by lhbernhardt (Post 14618532)
I would also be disinclined to accept the opinion of fitters unless they can show documented proof behind their assertions.

My fitter showed me an empirical experiment that anyone can perform & confirm on their own. At first it seems like a cute parlor trick, but anyone with a Physics 101 understanding of simple machines (i.e., levers) can probably explain why it works...and why it works for all riders.

- With the pedal at 12 o'clock and your foot toe-down, relax and let your leg fall wherever it will. Which direction does it go? That's right, it goes backwards. So if you're pedalling toe-down as your leg comes over the top, you're fighting the natural inclination of that multi-lever system we call "your leg" to move in the opposite direction that you're trying to push it. Wasted energy.

- Now try it again, this time with the pedal at 12 o'clock and your foot level; relax and let your leg fall wherever it will. Which direction does it go? That's right, it goes forwards. No wasted energy.

curdog 08-21-12 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by Bob Ross (Post 14634224)
My fitter showed me an empirical experiment that anyone can perform & confirm on their own. At first it seems like a cute parlor trick, but anyone with a Physics 101 understanding of simple machines (i.e., levers) can probably explain why it works...and why it works for all riders.

- With the pedal at 12 o'clock and your foot toe-down, relax and let your leg fall wherever it will. Which direction does it go? That's right, it goes backwards. So if you're pedalling toe-down as your leg comes over the top, you're fighting the natural inclination of that multi-lever system we call "your leg" to move in the opposite direction that you're trying to push it. Wasted energy.

- Now try it again, this time with the pedal at 12 o'clock and your foot level; relax and let your leg fall wherever it will. Which direction does it go? That's right, it goes forwards. No wasted energy.

This is a interesting experiment. Although pretty simple, it makes a lot of sense. Let's say that the foot should be level at 12:00. What about between 12 & 6? Do you think more power is generated with a flat foot or toe down?

Mobile 155 08-21-12 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by Bob Ross (Post 14634224)
My fitter showed me an empirical experiment that anyone can perform & confirm on their own. At first it seems like a cute parlor trick, but anyone with a Physics 101 understanding of simple machines (i.e., levers) can probably explain why it works...and why it works for all riders.

- With the pedal at 12 o'clock and your foot toe-down, relax and let your leg fall wherever it will. Which direction does it go? That's right, it goes backwards. So if you're pedalling toe-down as your leg comes over the top, you're fighting the natural inclination of that multi-lever system we call "your leg" to move in the opposite direction that you're trying to push it. Wasted energy.

- Now try it again, this time with the pedal at 12 o'clock and your foot level; relax and let your leg fall wherever it will. Which direction does it go? That's right, it goes forwards. No wasted energy.

Tried it and it only half worked. Yes if I am at TDC and I relax my heal would drop but even with no load the crank doesn't go backwards. Maybe that is my cleat set up or how far forward I sit on my saddle I don't know. But from TDC with a flat foot the pedal doesn't go forward by itself either.

That doesn't mean the experiment doesn't work I guess because it could also be influenced by the bike itself. But what I think we see from the link NOS88 posted all three strokes seem to work for different people. With all three strokes being represented in TDF winners. I just went through an afternoon watching spin videos and it seems as if as soon as even a flat pedal stroke goes into slightly toe down when the RPM increases towards max. I agree that the natural relaxed position at TDC and BDC on a road bike would be pretty flat. But the transition from TDC and BDC seem to change looking at the pedal strokes of both pros and non pros in online videos, and from riding in a group in my case. Looking at a simple instruction video, not giving the instructors extra credit here, it seems to be a matter of degree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z04uo...eature=related Looking at the chart there are at least two times when a rider will be slightly toe up and hardly ever heal down and yet Eddie was a heal down pedaler.

Like I said I have spent the last three months trying to keep my foot flat because some people I admire suggested it would be better for me. Looking at my Strava account it simply didn't work. I contend that it is very hard to lift on the back foot without dropping your toes and how can you "ankel" if at one point you heel wasn't above your toe? I am not talking extremes here only degrees.


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