Luddites!

I never really got into the "pull up" part, so much as I just lifted my weight off the rising pedal. For me, the circular pedaling involved mostly just the "shoe scrape" motion at the bottom of the stroke, and a little push forward at the top. I just keep my legs fresh by varying where I put the emphasis on my stroke. I have toe clips, but I keep them loose. They're just there to keep my foot positioned. If I'd bought them now, I'd have bought those strapless toe clips, or those clipless toe straps (powergrips, I think they're called), because I'm too lazy and cheap to replace my pedals!

If I did go "clipless", I'd go with one of those pedals that are dual use, with cleats or just shoes.

The OP's discription sounded almost like I could have started writting it. I also started about the same time in 1996 and my mountain bike came with the toe clips. They worked for climbing and then I went with clipless for a while and then discovered at age 50 I wasn't doing as much climbing that I needed them, and the risk of maybe breaking some bones because I got locked up into my pedals and unable to get free in time made me rethink those clipless. I went back to the toe clips and now I ride bare bones platform pedals at age 65 on my hybrid. Whatever works for you and makes you comfortable is the way I see it.

I don't get why you felt locked in with toeclips. I agree about the hassle of tipping into them at every traffic light and the attendant anxiety of scraping them. But I've never felt locked in even when I did tighten the straps, which was only rarely to see if it did me any good (didn't, BTW).

If we're not in a race, there's no benefit to being attached to the pedals versus correctly positioned. And if Grant is correct, nearly no benefit even if you are in a race.

It's great to see all the "confessions" of the clipless renegades who've gone back not only to toeclips but to loose toeclips and in some cases platforms. I'm not a renegade, I've been in denial of the benefits of clipless at least for efficiency since they came out - I never left loose toeclips. I guess I started being an old fart in my 20's!

Aren't those hemlines due to go up again, too?

+1

I'm happy to accept that clipless is more efficient but I feel comfortable with the short strapless clips, and have no problem in getting out of them in falls. I don't take part in races - except occasional sprint finishes with friends - so riding more quickly is not an aim in terms of absolute times or beating other riders, just in improving on my own performance over time.

It's more comfortable being clipped in and a big benefit when racing where you need to sprint and attack occasionally. I haven't read Grant's book but did he really suggest there was no benefit to clipless for racing?

Page 32 of Just Ride, he says that clipless proponents say there are two advantages: more power to the pedal because it's not being absorbed by a soft, flexible shoe sole, and it's easier to apply power all around the pedaling stroke. He then goes on to claim neither of these is true, and presumably intends that race riding is included. He goes on again to say there should be a benefit while racing in terms of keeping a smooth shoe on a tiny pedal.

He does discuss why the soft shoe thing is not true. Not sure I get it and agree, as yet.

He addresses the 360 thing by saying that nearly nobody, and nobody tested in published physio lab tests of pedal forces over 360 degrees (I think he mentions muscle activity testing as well) pulls up on the upstroke, and reasons that if tested riders (usually trained racers) don't, then his customers don't pull up, so there is no occurrence of 360 degree propulsive pedal forces.

Can any of us do this and create a fallacy for Grant? Yes, I can with my loose toeclips. But I can't keep doing it long enough to make it a benefit over a decent-length ride. There may be some brief (a relative term, but for me it means much less than a mile) advantage, and if I was a racer I'd explore this to see if the trade-offs are worth it.

But yes, Grant did address the topic aand present an argument but did not present his sources, dot his i's and cross his t's. So yes, I'd grade his argument as at least a suggestion.

Your argument sounds like concern for your foot falling off the pedal or otherwise shifting position without a good retention system. I'm not sure Grant addressed this point, and I know I'd like that security feature if I needed it. Here I'd think a tightly strapped toe clip can help as well. I have tried a cleated shoe with tight straps and it does feel more secure, but there are other issues that I don't like.

+1!

Ride Safe
...and
Ride Lots!
... the only rule?
Don't Forget the Pants!

His argument is plausible for steady state riding but not applicable to sprinting or riding hard out of the saddle, which is necessary when racing. No one races on platforms.

Pulling up on the pedal with any force would likely be problematic for folks like myself. When I consciously really try to pull up on the pedal, I can feel the pull on my groin muscles, and not in any sort of good way! They're tiny untrained muscles, who's job is stabilization rather than power output, I think, in normal folks like me.

Still, just lifting the weight off the pedal on the upstroke is bound to improve one's pedaling efficiency, since the leg doing the downstroke is just putting it's power to use propelling the bike, and not in lifting the dead weight of your other leg!

The soft shoe vs. hard shoe argument is likely too complex to be dealt with by simple theories, and would need experimental data, since the involved problems of elastic vs plastic deformation and hysteresis loss would probably be "non-trivial", and different for different styles of shoe. Running shoes would be bad, since they're designed to absorb shock, and as such, would be "lossy", but the way one is pedaling would likely make a difference, with low impact "spinning" suffering no significant difference in energy loss, while a more "mashing" power pedaling might, maybe possibly but unverifiably without experimental proof, suffer a noticeable loss of performance.

Mind you, my first and third paragraphs are just me, talking out of my... alternative orifice. The second paragraph and this one, are the only two I can claim to be unbiasedly factual!

Me too. I find old rat trap pedals give my feet/shoes plenty of grip. I like being able to move my feet around a bit. I really enjoy riding more with no attachment to the pedals.

I'm 63 and so I was riding a loong time before I switched to clipless; however I would never go back. I feel like I have more power and more of my energy goes into propelling myself and not wasted trying to keep my feet on the pedals...either going uphill or down a steep downhill. Yep, I fell once many years ago but no problems in the last twenty years or so.

However, I did remove my computer a couple of years ago and like the freedom of that. Also, about once a year I accidentally forget my helmet. I LOVE the feeling and I feel like a boy again. Not recommending...just my opinion.

From the OP a week later:

Been riding bare-pedal all week now and, although maintaining proper positioning on the pedals requires a little more concentration, I'm still liking it more than riding with my feet strapped into cages. My sneakers are also staying a lot cleaner!

I think some of the people who have commented are misreading my original post. I do not ride "clipless" pedals. I've just shed my clips for plain old flat, plastic "rat trap" pedals.

I'd suggest upgrading to metal pedals as soon as you can.

I have found the bearings and seals in plastic pedals tend to be rather poor. They're cheap for a reason.

While you will get good service out of them for a while, they will deteriorate quite quickly, and aren't worth the effort of servicing.

Metal pedals, especially if they have a decent, aggressive profile or studs for sole grip, can also bite hard on the shins, so there needs to be some caution there.

Thanks, Rowan.

I do a lot of bicycle recycling, so I have a wall full of metal pedals, many brand new. For some reason, I just like the plastic better. And even after 16 years and thousands of miles (both on road and off), I'm only on my second set!

Clipless for energetic rides, toe clips or flat pedals for casual days or local errands.
Variety is spice.

Getting back to the title-50 and scaling back--At 52 I had a bypass and I thought that would slow me down or even stop me- It didn't but then a couple of years later and prostate reared it head and I thought that was it. I did scale back but a year later realised that I was nowhere near as fit as I used to be. Mainly a mental problem as I was old now and with a few medical scares behind me I was not pushing hard up the hills- milage was not there and why should it be.

Decided on a Kill or cure and set a target of re-doing the hardest ride I had ever done. I had done it before and it had been hard then so it was down to 6 months hard training and gym work. Did the ride successfully but it hurt even harder than before. But the adrenalin was still flowing so retrain for the following year- and the next- and the next. 2006 and I was 59 and I called it a day on that ride and took the "Easier" option of going road.

Problem now is that at 65- I have got into the "I am old so why should I push" syndrome again. Time to find a target for next year and train for it. However it will not be that hard ride I last did in 2006- that is just a step too far now.

So scaling back. Why**********??

You still have plenty of years to get those rides in-Ask dnvrFox and a few others. Now when you get Old(er) you may have a reason to slow down a bit- but not yet.

I am a 55 Y.O. youngster here and I have actually stepped up somewhat this year. 2000 through 2012 was a decrease of 16 major surgeries for me, 3 on my spine and 13 on the abdomen/ small intestine. Now that things have evened out for me health wise, save renal failure setting in, I am riding every day and my average speed has crept up to 16 mph from around 12 when I started back last year.

Adjusting my diet to save wear and tear on the kidneys has allowed me to feel like riding more and riding better. I have shed 34 lbs since April and will ride a metric century shortly. The mental part has been helped here at the 50+ forum, the senior (in years, respectfully) members like Denver Fox, Zonatandem and others that have kept their health at a higher level inspired me to keep riding and our members like Blues Dawg, Beverly and others have shown me you can even beat cancer and use riding to keep you sane. This aspect is much larger than you can imagine, having others riding and conquering things you thought impossible just 2 years ago can help you to realize your goals and go beyond them, too.

Scaling back is a necessary part of our aging and I try and use common sense to govern my exercise and my diet, not go to extremes I could not sustain. I let riding be a joy for me, not a training burden as if I was racing like the mid-late 70's again. Oh, And I do ride clipless now and this years N+1 didn't hurt my positive mental state either.

Bill

Not even Grant Peterson!

I prefer clipless and use regular SPD's. It makes some difference, but not a huge amount. Doohickie is still a bit faster than I am. Heck, we often ride with a guy whose favorite bike is a Schwinn cruiser and he is one of the fastest guys in the group.

On my city bike, I use dual pedals with a platform on one side and keep the left foot unclipped for stop and go riding. If I ride a bike with just platfrom pedals it doesn't feel right, I'm just used to feeling my feet connected to the bike.

Does Grant Peterson actually ride his bikes? I wouldn't have thought he would have had enough time, what with running his business and preaching from on high.

>>>So scaling back. Why**********??<<<<<

Whooooooaaaa, Nellie!!!!!!!

"Scaling back" wasn't meant as slowing down or riding less! I was just referring to the fact that I am re-evaluating certain aspects of my riding and making some adjustments to keep it interesting! If you look back to the beginning, you'll see that this whole thread started as a tongue-in-cheek announcement that I have shed my toe clips.

At 49, I am riding more than ever, and I never stop thinking about the next tour, the next commute to work, or the next ride around the block. I don't think anyone needs to "scale back" in the way you interpreted my thread title. Sorry if I didn't communicate that well!

OP

FWIW, I've seen a couple of experiments using strain gauges to measure up- and downforce on the pedals, and they found that the upstroke contributes almost nothing. People think they're pedaling in circles, but mostly what they do is unweight their feet, and not even that for long.
In my own case, I have bikes with toe clips, Power Grips, clipless and flat BMX pedals, and there's no consistent correlation between what I'm using and how fast I go. But I'm just a gentleman cruiser these days, so YMMV.

On a recent ride over my favourite, very hilly route, my chain unshipped while I was out of the saddle and struggling up a short 24% slope. I was not moving fast at the time (!) and managed to unclip from my Look Keo pedals quickly enough to put my foot down and avoid leaving bits of my body on the road and, even worse, having my manly parts crushed by the top tube. I'm pretty sure that if I was riding with old toe clips and straps I would never have been able to unclip quickly enough.

I love clipless and find them very easy to get into and out of.