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New Flat Stategery?

Old 03-13-13, 03:47 AM
  #1  
JimF22003
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New Flat Stategery?

For whatever reason, I rarely get flats. In thousands and thousands of miles of riding I've only changed a tube out maybe three times total over the last six or seven years. I've been carrying around CO2 cartridges, plus a small Lezyne pump that attaches to the bottle cage, and usually two tubes. I have a small flat kit but have never patched a tube on the road.

On Sunday on a very rough road I got a flat and did the usual tube switch. With the first CO2 cartridge I got it inflated, but then let all the juice out by unscrewing the cartridge too far. The second CO2 cartridge just plain didn't work. Don't know what the issue was with that one.

So I pumped up the tube using the Lezyne pump which worked fine. I just pumped until I got tired of doing it and the tire felt OK using the "pinch" test and went on with the ride.

When I got back home I used the floor pump and found out the tire only had maybe 45 PSI in it tops. I couldn't tell a bit of difference in the ride from when I pump up to my usual 95 PSI or so. (I use wide Zipp rims that can use lower air pressure.)

I'm thinking of just ditching the CO2 stuff from now on and just using the pump. I know I can easily get more than 45 PSI into the tire with it, and even with low pressure in the tire the ride is fine (probably a bit more susceptible to pinch flats.)
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Old 03-13-13, 05:04 AM
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I've never used Co cartridges on the trail. I rely on a Topeak Morph pump which will quite easily put 110 psi in a tire. I know it's not quite as compact as your Lesyne, which I think is a very nicely made pump.
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Old 03-13-13, 05:21 AM
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Jim,
The mini-pumps are a good idea overall, but the last couple of threads in 50+ about the CO2 inflators were about the type you have to use the cartridge as the control for the gas flow. Is the type of inflator you are using now? I have the type with a trigger so I am not at the mercy of unscrewing the cartridge carefully. It is almost as small as the non-trigger type, very close in weight if those are an issue and it fits in my Avenir seat bag perfectly.

Are you removing the inflator before you unscrew the inflator so as to not lose any of the remaining gas in the cartridge? If so, I understand why hurrying to unscrew the cartridge is important, but I would give up a few ozs. of CO2 in order to have the tire's inflation high enough to safely make it home. Not a criticism aimed at anyone either. As far as cartridges and having enough gas charge I am using the 16 oz. cartridges that I buy in bulk from Amazon to avoid the $3.50 per threaded cartridge the LBS around here charge. I carry 2 spares as well as one threaded and ready in the inflator.

I saw an ad for a new mini-pump that has both a CO2 inflator and a hand plunger type pump combined, and someone here posted that they were getting or had one of these. If so how do they measure up? The hand pump could top off the pressure after a shot of CO2, I would guess. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has one, how they like this item. I carried a Silca pump on my frame in the 70's and 80's, those were good pumps but getting an HP tubular tire up to 120 psi was always tiring.

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Old 03-13-13, 06:32 AM
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I relied totally on CO2 for years with my road bikes. One 16 gram cartridge was perfect for reinflating a 700 X 23c road tire. Never had a misadventure.

After I switched to recumbents, the first flat that I had was at the front of our Screamer tandem. A 16 gram CO2 left the 20 X 1.5 tire pretty soft. I doubt it even had 45 PSI in it. I use a Topeak pump now.

Years ago I had a bike shop lady tell me how to pick out a pump. "You don't have a flat very often but, when you do, you're likely to be aggravated."
"If you're the kind of person who doesn't upset easily, it doesn't matter because you don't flat very often. You can get the smallest most compact pump you can find. It will just take longer."
"If you're prone to anger, you want the biggest, fastest, most convenient pump you can handle on your bike."
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Old 03-13-13, 06:46 AM
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Just a thought.

Writing boldly that you rarely get flats may be just what you need to trigger a large number of 'em. It's the way things go.

As for pumps, I just switched to the Lezyne from the Road Morph because it is so much smaller and neater, and it fits inside my seat-post bag rather than strapped to the outside of it. But I am thinking about switching back. I don't find it pumps up as well, and it's a little more fiddly to use than the Road Morph. Never used CO2, and never felt the need to do so. It's one more thing that can go wrong.
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Old 03-13-13, 07:00 AM
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when equipped with a topeak road morph, you're more inclined to stop and help another rider with a puncture. With just cartridges, less so.
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Old 03-13-13, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
when equipped with a topeak road morph, you're more inclined to stop and help another rider with a puncture. With just cartridges, less so.


This......... and, the ladies really appreciate it, and it's cool to watch the younger guys jaw drop, as you pump it up to 115 or so.
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Old 03-13-13, 07:33 AM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
when equipped with a topeak road morph, you're more inclined to stop and help another rider with a puncture. With just cartridges, less so.
Yup. If it wasn't for helping other riders, my portable pumps wouldn't get much use.
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Old 03-13-13, 03:44 PM
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The beauty of C02 inflation devices is the repeat business it generates for the shop. Over time I realized a better margin from those cartridge sales than from just a pump. Loved selling them, customers loved them because once mastered they were easy to use and gave full pressure. Me? I had one, never used it. Carry a Zefal frame pump, have for 40 years. The Morph is much better by far, but I am a traditionalist!
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Old 03-13-13, 03:59 PM
  #10  
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If you are one of those fortunate people that rarley has a visit from the flat fairy- then you had better make certain you ride with others when she does visit you. That pump that has sat on your frame for the last 18 months may not work when you want it to unless you have checked it out to see that it still works. I do not have that problem and have resorted to buying tubes in bulk.
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Old 03-13-13, 04:11 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Boudicca View Post
Just a thought.

Writing boldly that you rarely get flats may be just what you need to trigger a large number of 'em. It's the way things go.
Yup.

I tried the CO2 once and completely effed it up. Since then, I've stuck to the pump.

Someone gave me this one as a gift and it works just fine. You have to pump pretty furiously and long, but it will go to 80 PSI in pretty short order. Not sure I believe the 160 psi number, though. Maybe Popeye can do that.

https://www.topeak.com/products/Pumps/MicroRocketCB

My other bikes have the cheapo Performance Hurricane pump.

https://www.performancebike.com/webap...ssociationsCmd

That works dandy.
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Old 03-13-13, 05:03 PM
  #12  
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We use the Topeak Mt. Morph on our tandem.
Works great. 100 PSI with 100 pump strokes for our 700x25 tires. What's not to like?
Will easily pump up to 120 PSI.
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Old 03-13-13, 05:11 PM
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I tried CO2, still have the bits in a box somewhere.

Have used a Topeak Road Morph for years... the gauge is broken however.
I like a hose on the pump for some reason.

The last flat was a new drywall screw through both sides of the rear tire, it was hitting the V-brake arm pretty good. Clack, clack, clack.
I average about one flat a year. Generally the rear. The front kicks up the bit and the heavier weighted rear picks up the bit.

Even though I'm running 700 tires, I still carry a good used patched 26" tube to assist those in real need.

I powdered car tubes/tires in the early '60s, did the same with tubed m/c tires and still powder bicycle tubes at install. Tubes run cooler and do not stick to the tire or rim.

In my experience, Schwalbe tubes hold air very well, in 26/2 @ 50psi i only needed to add air once every three weeks. YMMV.

Many years ago an old roadie that was a member of the LA Wheelman told me of installing a bit of stiff wire(like a piece of spoke) bent to the contour of the tire, set to just rub a bit.
He swore that this would flick an offender out of the tire before it could work its way into the tube.
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Old 03-14-13, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
...the CO2 inflators were about the type you have to use the cartridge as the control for the gas flow. Is the type of inflator you are using now? I have the type with a trigger so I am not at the mercy of unscrewing the cartridge carefully.
That's the one. No trigger. The thing is I use the CO2 so rarely I always forget how they work That's why I'm thinking of just bagging them all together an sticking with the pump. Especially since if I make more of an effort I should be able to get 80PSI in the tires pretty easily.

I may pick up one of the trigger type inflators though to give it a try.
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Old 03-14-13, 01:58 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Boudicca View Post
Never used CO2, and never felt the need to do so. It's one more thing that can go wrong.
That's how I'm starting to feel. I'd almost rather just carry three tubes. I was surprised how well the bike rode with comparably low tire pressure.
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Old 03-14-13, 02:01 AM
  #16  
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I have and use the full-size Road Morph on my commuter bike. It's truly a great pump. I take it in my luggage if I'm car camping or on multiday supported rides. I'm too vain to put it on my road bike though
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Old 03-14-13, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JimF22003 View Post
I have and use the full-size Road Morph on my commuter bike. It's truly a great pump. I take it in my luggage if I'm car camping or on multiday supported rides. I'm too vain to put it on my road bike though
Guess I don't mind the Road Morph on my road bike. I was out last September riding 30 or 40 miles when I passed a guy fixing a flat. After making the loop, I caught up with him and he decided to stay with me because I had a pump(and a spare tube) and he didn't have any more CO[sub]2[/sub] canisters.
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Old 03-14-13, 09:30 AM
  #18  
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If someone doesn't use CO2 regularly to remember how to do it right, especially with the frustration of a flat. CO2 with a trigger is ideal for infrequent flatters. A mini pump is good to get a flat started, check for the source of the flat before putting the new tube in, and as a backup. But CO2 is key to me to getting the flat fixed and moving again - its a few seconds to get up to 110 lbs or so versus a couple minutes with a mini to get to 60-70 lbs.
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Old 03-14-13, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
when equipped with a topeak road morph, you're more inclined to stop and help another rider with a puncture. With just cartridges, less so.
Never stopped me. I always ask if they have everything they need. If they say they're OK, I ride on. If they need something that I have, like an inner tube or my last CO2 cartridge, it's theirs. I've benefitted the other way too.
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Old 03-14-13, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JimF22003 View Post
I have and use the full-size Road Morph on my commuter bike. I'm too vain to put it on my road bike though
Yup. You've hit on the biggest drawback to the Road Morph. Probably the one that keeps more people from using them. THEY ARE UGLY!
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Old 03-14-13, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
I've never used Co cartridges on the trail. I rely on a Topeak Morph pump which will quite easily put 110 psi in a tire. I know it's not quite as compact as your Lesyne, which I think is a very nicely made pump.
Agree 100%!

Been there did that with the CO2 - got annoying and was not reliable. I now always carry my Topeak! Everyone else likes to borrow it!

Note: I am one of those weirdos that always ride with a Camelbak (road or mountain riding) so I carry the Topeak in the pack. No one has to see it until I pull it out. It's not that ugly, it's just bulky and extremely practical.
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Old 03-14-13, 03:08 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by pursuance View Post
I powdered car tubes/tires in the early '60s, did the same with tubed m/c tires and still powder bicycle tubes at install. Tubes run cooler and do not stick to the tire or rim.
Is that plain ol' talcum powder?
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Old 03-14-13, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Pamestique View Post
Agree 100%!

Been there did that with the CO2 - got annoying and was not reliable. I now always carry my Topeak! Everyone else likes to borrow it!

Note: I am one of those weirdos that always ride with a Camelbak (road or mountain riding) so I carry the Topeak in the pack. No one has to see it until I pull it out. It's not that ugly, it's just bulky and extremely practical.
I have never used CO2; I have carried a Topeak Road Morph for over 5 years now. it is a great pump. I am considering learning to use CO2 as a backup. At the end of a long ride it might be nice to have the CO2 to save some effort. BTW, I won a couple of CO2 cartridges at the club meeting, and that is another reason to try to CO2. Pamestique, I wear a Camelbak too, even though I am almost 100% road. I like having a cool drink late in a summer ride.
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Old 03-14-13, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by az_cyclist View Post
... Pamestique, I wear a Camelbak too, even though I am almost 100% road. I like having a cool drink late in a summer ride.
Well since you are in AZ I give you a pass... can't imagine there are enough places to put bottles on a bike to keep you cool! I just like having the water quick and easy access, no bending down, eyes off road to get a bottle...
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Old 03-14-13, 03:42 PM
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I've never had a flat on the road, but transitioning to a road bike I'm expecting that to change, so I picked up a Road Morph based on the near universal high regard everyone seems to have for it. I'll probably mount it to the top bar, but I also have a couple of CO2 carts - belt & suspenders is my motto.

Originally Posted by az_cyclist View Post
Pamestique, I wear a Camelbak too, even though I am almost 100% road. I like having a cool drink late in a summer ride.
I read a piece recently mocking certain practices amongst cyclists that were judged as just too uncool to consider. One of them was wearing a Camelbak or equivalent. It didn't make much sense to me, and doesn't now. Having two quarts of cool water when the temp is up in the high 90's is really nice. The wife & I did a multi-day tour last summer that had the choice of a 14- or 25-mile "warmup" on Friday night. Because Marcy isn't the avid cyclist I am, we did the 14-miler. Temp was 98 at 6:00, and we both completely drained our 2-quart Camelbaks over that distance. I also found the next day that the Cambelbaks are so well insulated, I could load it up with ice and water, and when the water was gone there was enough ice left that I could transfer the warm water in my water bottles to the Camelbak and still have cool water to drink after 40 miles.
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