Drivetrain
#26
feros ferio

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 22,411
Likes: 1,876
From: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Don't know if it is because of my left handedness, but I mount my bike from the right side. Don't think I could from the left without falling over. I've heard various statistics that the percentage of the world's population that are left-handed is between 4% and 10%. We've had to adapt to a right-handed world. (I get on a horse from the left side; when I played baseball/softball, I had more bat control from the right side but more power from the left side; and have always kicked balls with the right foot/leg, but swing a tennis racket from the left side.)
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#27
feros ferio

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 22,411
Likes: 1,876
From: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
The drive thread of a traditional freewheel does indeed have to be clockwise, but the lockplate has to be anticlockwise. They beat this problem in cassette systems by separating the cog retention ring from the bearings, so that a clockwise thread could then be used there.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#28
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
From: New York and San Juan
Bikes: Kestrel Talon SL, Surly Steamroller, Equipe SS/FG Beater
I think that it has everything to do with standardization.
Most screws and bolts have a right hand thread. If you were developing a new product you'd like to use current standardized parts wherever you could. A screw on bicycle cog or freewheel, with a right hand thread on the right side of the bike will tighten itself as you ride.
Most screws and bolts have a right hand thread. If you were developing a new product you'd like to use current standardized parts wherever you could. A screw on bicycle cog or freewheel, with a right hand thread on the right side of the bike will tighten itself as you ride.
#29
Banned.
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,662
Likes: 1
From: Brighton UK
Bikes: 20" Folder, Road Bike
I think that it has everything to do with standardization.
Most screws and bolts have a right hand thread. If you were developing a new product you'd like to use current standardized parts wherever you could. A screw on bicycle cog or freewheel, with a right hand thread on the right side of the bike will tighten itself as you ride.
Most screws and bolts have a right hand thread. If you were developing a new product you'd like to use current standardized parts wherever you could. A screw on bicycle cog or freewheel, with a right hand thread on the right side of the bike will tighten itself as you ride.
Good point. And no good reason to ever change it, as left is worse for most.
Problems with left pedals and left cranksets caused the adoption of reverse
threading which unfortunately they ignored for square taper bottom brackets.
rgds, sreten.
#30
Actually, the drive side bearing cup is generally the fixed one, and the correct threading is anticlockwise. If this seems counterintuitive, thing about the epicyclic action of the ball bearings. Empirically, clockwise-threaded right side fixed cups on Italian and old French bikes tend to self-loosen, whereas anticlockwise-threaded ISO, English (who held the patent) and Swiss fixed cups tend to self-tighten. (Been there ... done that.)
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831
#31
Actually, the drive side bearing cup is generally the fixed one, and the correct threading is anticlockwise. If this seems counterintuitive, thing about the epicyclic action of the ball bearings. Empirically, clockwise-threaded right side fixed cups on Italian and old French bikes tend to self-loosen, whereas anticlockwise-threaded ISO, English (who held the patent) and Swiss fixed cups tend to self-tighten. (Been there ... done that.)
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,026
Likes: 26
From: Western Maryland - Appalachian Mountains
Bikes: Motobecane Fantom Cross; Cannondale Supersix replaced the Giant TCR which came to an untimely death by truck
I think that it has everything to do with standardization.
Most screws and bolts have a right hand thread. If you were developing a new product you'd like to use current standardized parts wherever you could. A screw on bicycle cog or freewheel, with a right hand thread on the right side of the bike will tighten itself as you ride.
Most screws and bolts have a right hand thread. If you were developing a new product you'd like to use current standardized parts wherever you could. A screw on bicycle cog or freewheel, with a right hand thread on the right side of the bike will tighten itself as you ride.
What were those folks thinking in the 60's. Nevermind, figured it out... the 60's.
#33
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 2
From: Newport News, VA USA
Bikes: Diamondback Edgewood LX; Giant Defy 1
I'm a righty yet I start with my left foot. I swing my left leg over the bike when I mount it. I always have done it like that since I was a kid, so it would be a long awkward time to try to change. Somehow, I don't think I'll be changing the way I mount a bike or take off.
#35
Palmer

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,165
Likes: 2,271
From: Parts Unknown
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Safety bicycles were introduced into a world of horse riders, and most horses are, in fact, traditionally mounted from the left in the industrialized countries that pioneered bicycle manufacture & riding. People naturally begin to mount bicycles the same way they'd always mounted horses. Manufacturers put the drive train on the 'off' side, away from the riders' clothing. To facilitate left-side mounting, kickstands and the mounting step on ordinary bicycles (highwheelers) are always on the left, too.
Why are/were horses mounted from the left? Because most people are naturally right handed, and in the 19th century lefties were forced/trained to be right handed, too, so back in the day it was nearly a 100% right handed world. So, if you're right handed, where do you wear your sword, Mr. Man-of-action-and-adventure? (FYI - Cavalry sabers were issued into WWI.) That's correct, you wear your sword on your left hip. Now think about it: If you mount from the right, swinging your left leg over the horse's haunches, the sword...can and will wind up between your legs!
Now you know.
Why are/were horses mounted from the left? Because most people are naturally right handed, and in the 19th century lefties were forced/trained to be right handed, too, so back in the day it was nearly a 100% right handed world. So, if you're right handed, where do you wear your sword, Mr. Man-of-action-and-adventure? (FYI - Cavalry sabers were issued into WWI.) That's correct, you wear your sword on your left hip. Now think about it: If you mount from the right, swinging your left leg over the horse's haunches, the sword...can and will wind up between your legs!
Now you know.
Last edited by tcs; 06-05-13 at 08:01 PM.
#37
Safety bicycles were introduced into a world of horse riders, and most horses are, in fact, traditionally mounted from the left in the industrialized countries that pioneered bicycle manufacture & riding. People naturally begin to mount bicycles the same way they'd always mounted horses. Manufacturers put the drive train on the 'off' side, away from the riders' clothing. To facilitate left-side mounting, kickstands and the mounting step on ordinary bicycles (highwheelers) are always on the left, too.
Why are/were horses mounted from the left? Because most people are naturally right handed, and in the 19th century lefties were forced/trained to be right handed, too, so back in the day it was nearly a 100% right handed world. So, if you're right handed, where do you wear your sword, Mr. Man-of-action-and-adventure? (FYI - Cavalry sabers were issued into WWI.) That's correct, you wear your sword on your left hip. Now think about it: If you mount from the right, swinging your left leg over the horse's haunches, the sword...can and will wind up between your legs!
Now you know.
Why are/were horses mounted from the left? Because most people are naturally right handed, and in the 19th century lefties were forced/trained to be right handed, too, so back in the day it was nearly a 100% right handed world. So, if you're right handed, where do you wear your sword, Mr. Man-of-action-and-adventure? (FYI - Cavalry sabers were issued into WWI.) That's correct, you wear your sword on your left hip. Now think about it: If you mount from the right, swinging your left leg over the horse's haunches, the sword...can and will wind up between your legs!
Now you know.
Whenever I mount my bicycle while I am wearing my sword, I am so glad the drivetrain is on the right!

(Nice response, by the way)
#38
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
From: New York and San Juan
Bikes: Kestrel Talon SL, Surly Steamroller, Equipe SS/FG Beater
[.
Why are/were horses mounted from the left? Because most people are naturally right handed, and in the 19th century lefties were forced/trained to be right handed, too, so back in the day it was nearly a 100% right handed world. So, if you're right handed, where do you wear your sword, Mr. Man-of-action-and-adventure? (FYI - Cavalry sabers were issued into WWI.) That's correct, you wear your sword on your left hip. Now think about it: If you mount from the right, swinging your left leg over the horse's haunches, the sword...can and will wind up between your legs!
Now you know.[/QUOTE]
If I remember correctly from a Logic class I took in college, since most of us have moved on from the sword weilding days of yore, your argument is illogical.
I've concluded that there is no logical reason for a drive train to be on the right side except for the fact that it has always been done that way which is in itself illogical.
Why are/were horses mounted from the left? Because most people are naturally right handed, and in the 19th century lefties were forced/trained to be right handed, too, so back in the day it was nearly a 100% right handed world. So, if you're right handed, where do you wear your sword, Mr. Man-of-action-and-adventure? (FYI - Cavalry sabers were issued into WWI.) That's correct, you wear your sword on your left hip. Now think about it: If you mount from the right, swinging your left leg over the horse's haunches, the sword...can and will wind up between your legs!
Now you know.[/QUOTE]
If I remember correctly from a Logic class I took in college, since most of us have moved on from the sword weilding days of yore, your argument is illogical.
I've concluded that there is no logical reason for a drive train to be on the right side except for the fact that it has always been done that way which is in itself illogical.
#39
Palmer

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,165
Likes: 2,271
From: Parts Unknown
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
If I remember correctly from a Logic class I took in college, since most of us have moved on from the sword weilding days of yore, your argument is illogical.
Last edited by tcs; 06-06-13 at 12:11 PM.
#40
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
From: New York and San Juan
Bikes: Kestrel Talon SL, Surly Steamroller, Equipe SS/FG Beater
I didn't study logic. I studied engineering. If Ignaz Schwinn's right hand man had walked into his office in, oh, 1923 and said, 'Hey, boss, nobody wears a sword any more, and less than 10% of the American public rides a horse on a regular basis. For no compelling reason, and eliminating any backwards compatibility, let's retool the factory and put the drivetrain on the left and the kickstand on the right", Mr. Schwinn would have replied, "Collect your things. You're fired."
#41
Horses have sure messed things up for us of the "enlightened age". Why the house set-back distance from the street? That wasted 20-25 feet of grass that has to be watered and mowed constantly? Because in the days when everybody rode horses, the housewife did not want visitor's stinky horses tied up right next to the house. They wanted the smell away from the house. How many people still ride horses? Yup. So, why do we still have a set-back?
#42
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 96
From: San Diego
Bikes: 1989 Schwinn World Sport. 1994 Diamond Back Response Elite MTB. 1964 Schwinn Typhoon. 1974 Bridgestone Sprinter, 2015 Scott Sub 10 Citybike.
Horses have sure messed things up for us of the "enlightened age". Why the house set-back distance from the street? That wasted 20-25 feet of grass that has to be watered and mowed constantly? Because in the days when everybody rode horses, the housewife did not want visitor's stinky horses tied up right next to the house. They wanted the smell away from the house. How many people still ride horses? Yup. So, why do we still have a set-back?

#43
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 30,225
Likes: 649
From: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
#44
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
From: New York and San Juan
Bikes: Kestrel Talon SL, Surly Steamroller, Equipe SS/FG Beater
No, I didn't overlook it. I just don't think it's a legitimate excuse for denying left handed riders the option of having a left hand drive bicycle. I also don't believe standardization is as important as it once was. Todays factories and todays machinery being computerized can just as easily cut a left handed thread as a right handed one. We're not talking nuts and bolts here but rather cogs and hubs. I also believe that bicycle manufacturers offer an infinite amount of options today. I don't think that offering a left hand drive bicycle would be that big of a deal. They make golf clubs for left handed players don't they? Why discriminate against lefthanded bicyclists.
#46
feros ferio

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 22,411
Likes: 1,876
From: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
I have seen more than one home brew fixie w/ left side drive, and, of course, a cog lockring. This makes decent sense from a safety standpoint, because now braking becomes self-tightening. The drawback is that the pedals will self-loosen unless the cranks are retapped to restore the correct clockwise threading on the right side crank.
One of my friends encountered the same problem when he converted his crossover drive tandem to aluminum cranks, thinking he could simply use three right side cranks and one left. Three of his pedals kept threatening to fall out until he retapped the cranks.
One of my friends encountered the same problem when he converted his crossover drive tandem to aluminum cranks, thinking he could simply use three right side cranks and one left. Three of his pedals kept threatening to fall out until he retapped the cranks.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#47
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 30,225
Likes: 649
From: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
No, I didn't overlook it. I just don't think it's a legitimate excuse for denying left handed riders the option of having a left hand drive bicycle. I also don't believe standardization is as important as it once was. Todays factories and todays machinery being computerized can just as easily cut a left handed thread as a right handed one. We're not talking nuts and bolts here but rather cogs and hubs. I also believe that bicycle manufacturers offer an infinite amount of options today. I don't think that offering a left hand drive bicycle would be that big of a deal. They make golf clubs for left handed players don't they? Why discriminate against lefthanded bicyclists.
That changes my answer: I'm thinking it's because the people who market bicycles don't think they could sell enough to make it profitable. My son, for example, is a lefty and, to tell the truth, I've never noticed which side he mounts his bike from.
#48
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 30,225
Likes: 649
From: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
I think that I've seen left side drive freestyle bikes advertised but I don't remember the brand. The idea is they allow grinding against the curb on the right without damaging the drive train. If I google "left side freewheel" I wonder if anything will pop up.
#49
Palmer

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,165
Likes: 2,271
From: Parts Unknown
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
#50
rebmeM roineS

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,231
Likes: 366
From: Metro Indy, IN
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
I don't know if there was a logical reason or a flip of the coin. Either way, once the chain was on the right, standardization took over and kept it there. It's bad enough that I can choose between top-pivot or bottom-pivot, top-pull or bottom-pull front derailleurs; I'm glad I don't also have to add left- or right-chain to the decision mix!
__________________
Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer




