Tire liners
09-30-13, 01:42 PM
#26
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Two problems with tire liners:
1) Some (like Mr Tuffy) can have sharp edges and can themselves cut tubes. The "Stop Flats" brand is softer and doesn't seem to have this problem.
2) They can add a lot of rolling resistance and slow you down significantly. I recently swapped tires and took out my tire liners and my average speed increased by over 1 mph.
In general, I think you're better off with a tire that has flat protection built in. That being said, if you install them correctly and don't mind the loss of speed, they can help reduce flats.
Cheers,
Charles
1) Some (like Mr Tuffy) can have sharp edges and can themselves cut tubes. The "Stop Flats" brand is softer and doesn't seem to have this problem.
2) They can add a lot of rolling resistance and slow you down significantly. I recently swapped tires and took out my tire liners and my average speed increased by over 1 mph.
In general, I think you're better off with a tire that has flat protection built in. That being said, if you install them correctly and don't mind the loss of speed, they can help reduce flats.
Cheers,
Charles
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10-07-13, 07:28 AM
#27
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1. How often do you puncture? Maybe twice per year for me so I feel no need to experiment with tire liners. If I punctured twice per week, I'd feel differently.
2. The mechanic who recommended the tire liners - does he use them? I assume that he rides in the same conditions you do. If he doesn't feel he needs them, I wouldn't feel they were necessary for me to use either.
2. The mechanic who recommended the tire liners - does he use them? I assume that he rides in the same conditions you do. If he doesn't feel he needs them, I wouldn't feel they were necessary for me to use either.
10-07-13, 02:34 PM
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Just saw this thread.
I run 700x25 gatorskins with tire liners on my bike. So far, this year, after 6,200+ miles I had one slow leak that went flat overnight. It was a piece of wire that lodged into the tube after getting through the tire and liners.
I've pulled some pretty nasty things out of my tires also, the roads where I ride have a lot of debris and chip/seal. Just my experience. Last year I ran over 7,000 miles with only two flats.
BTW, I do replace my gatorskins when they get worn.
Just my experience and most of my friends use them also; except when racing. I do check my tires on a regular basis for debris and carry a pair of tweezers in my saddlebag to remove lodged rocks, glass, etc.
Richard
I run 700x25 gatorskins with tire liners on my bike. So far, this year, after 6,200+ miles I had one slow leak that went flat overnight. It was a piece of wire that lodged into the tube after getting through the tire and liners.
I've pulled some pretty nasty things out of my tires also, the roads where I ride have a lot of debris and chip/seal. Just my experience. Last year I ran over 7,000 miles with only two flats.
BTW, I do replace my gatorskins when they get worn.
Just my experience and most of my friends use them also; except when racing. I do check my tires on a regular basis for debris and carry a pair of tweezers in my saddlebag to remove lodged rocks, glass, etc.
Richard
10-07-13, 03:31 PM
#29
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There's nothing magic about liners - and they're not really that tough. You can verify this by poking a thumbtack right through one (way easier than I bet you thought).
All they do is put a little more solid material between the outside tire surface and the inside innertube surface - so if you have a 2mm thick tire and a 1mm thick tube you have 3mm of barrier. If you add a 2mm liner you have 5mm of barrier and can withstand attacks from 4mm thorns - which is the same as 4mm of tire and 1mm of tube.
Folks who ride in areas with high puncture risk would benefit from increasing the barrier thickness - liners can help with that, and they can be re-used when you get new tires.
All they do is put a little more solid material between the outside tire surface and the inside innertube surface - so if you have a 2mm thick tire and a 1mm thick tube you have 3mm of barrier. If you add a 2mm liner you have 5mm of barrier and can withstand attacks from 4mm thorns - which is the same as 4mm of tire and 1mm of tube.
Folks who ride in areas with high puncture risk would benefit from increasing the barrier thickness - liners can help with that, and they can be re-used when you get new tires.
10-07-13, 06:02 PM
#30
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There's nothing magic about liners - and they're not really that tough. You can verify this by poking a thumbtack right through one (way easier than I bet you thought).
All they do is put a little more solid material between the outside tire surface and the inside innertube surface - so if you have a 2mm thick tire and a 1mm thick tube you have 3mm of barrier. If you add a 2mm liner you have 5mm of barrier and can withstand attacks from 4mm thorns - which is the same as 4mm of tire and 1mm of tube.
Folks who ride in areas with high puncture risk would benefit from increasing the barrier thickness - liners can help with that, and they can be re-used when you get new tires.
All they do is put a little more solid material between the outside tire surface and the inside innertube surface - so if you have a 2mm thick tire and a 1mm thick tube you have 3mm of barrier. If you add a 2mm liner you have 5mm of barrier and can withstand attacks from 4mm thorns - which is the same as 4mm of tire and 1mm of tube.
Folks who ride in areas with high puncture risk would benefit from increasing the barrier thickness - liners can help with that, and they can be re-used when you get new tires.
Don in Austin
10-14-13, 07:29 AM
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Just saw this thread.
I run 700x25 gatorskins with tire liners on my bike. So far, this year, after 6,200+ miles I had one slow leak that went flat overnight. It was a piece of wire that lodged into the tube after getting through the tire and liners.
I've pulled some pretty nasty things out of my tires also, the roads where I ride have a lot of debris and chip/seal. Just my experience. Last year I ran over 7,000 miles with only two flats.
BTW, I do replace my gatorskins when they get worn.
Just my experience and most of my friends use them also; except when racing. I do check my tires on a regular basis for debris and carry a pair of tweezers in my saddlebag to remove lodged rocks, glass, etc.
Richard
I run 700x25 gatorskins with tire liners on my bike. So far, this year, after 6,200+ miles I had one slow leak that went flat overnight. It was a piece of wire that lodged into the tube after getting through the tire and liners.
I've pulled some pretty nasty things out of my tires also, the roads where I ride have a lot of debris and chip/seal. Just my experience. Last year I ran over 7,000 miles with only two flats.
BTW, I do replace my gatorskins when they get worn.
Just my experience and most of my friends use them also; except when racing. I do check my tires on a regular basis for debris and carry a pair of tweezers in my saddlebag to remove lodged rocks, glass, etc.
Richard
Thanks!
10-18-13, 05:11 AM
#32
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With liners the only flats I've had is from the valve coming loose from the tube on Bontrager tubes. No more Bontragers for me. That is 4600 miles now on the 520. And an unknown mileage while my computer wires were severed.
10-18-13, 05:43 AM
#33
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I've found that the cars and trucks thoughtfully sweep the tire tracks of such junk. Riding there instead of the shoulders and gutters prevents a lot of flats. I average 2 flats per year or less.
10-18-13, 08:44 AM
#35
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I use Mr. Tuffy liners with Schwalbe Marathon Plus (Nokian Hakkapilita or Schwalbe Marathon Winter for three months of the year). In ten years and 50,000 miles, no flats. That exceeded my specification of matching the performance of the my car tires - over the same mileage and time, I've had two flats.
Had I not used the Mr. Tuffy, I would have had one flat.
Had I not used the Mr. Tuffy, I would have had one flat.
10-18-13, 09:35 AM
#36
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I've tried to reduce the Tuffy induced flat, by before installing them ,
taking the ends to the bench grinder and tapering the cut edge ..
then slatering in lots of Talc powder..
taking the ends to the bench grinder and tapering the cut edge ..
then slatering in lots of Talc powder..
10-18-13, 01:30 PM
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Adding weight using liners to the tires ultimately to the wheels is the worst place to do it!
It is not much a problem to the overall weight of the bicycle but it is when you have to push the pedals to make the wheels turn. You feel it particularly going up hills or taking off from a stop!
To minimize puncture deflate the tires after each ride, the tire will not deform or weaken the fabric over time!
It is not much a problem to the overall weight of the bicycle but it is when you have to push the pedals to make the wheels turn. You feel it particularly going up hills or taking off from a stop!
To minimize puncture deflate the tires after each ride, the tire will not deform or weaken the fabric over time!
10-18-13, 01:40 PM
#38
The Recumbent Quant
Adding weight using liners to the tires ultimately to the wheels is the worst place to do it!
It is not much a problem to the overall weight of the bicycle but it is when you have to push the pedals to make the wheels turn. You feel it particularly going up hills or taking off from a stop!
To minimize puncture deflate the tires after each ride, the tire will not deform or weaken the fabric over time!
It is not much a problem to the overall weight of the bicycle but it is when you have to push the pedals to make the wheels turn. You feel it particularly going up hills or taking off from a stop!
To minimize puncture deflate the tires after each ride, the tire will not deform or weaken the fabric over time!
10-18-13, 03:11 PM
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After going about 4 yrs without a flat,... the law of averages caught up with me... on one ride. Four flats. I checked both the tire and the rim between each. The tubes I had (and my daughter had) were about 3 - 4 yrs old and we went through all we had. Down to patches, but the last one made it. The tires are about 3 yrs old, but one of those years I rode the beegesus out of my cross breed and the road bike only got occasional use. I'm ordering up new tubes and thinking hard about tire liners. From everything I read,... sounds like I should order up new tires too.
10-13-14, 05:46 AM
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1. How often do you puncture? Maybe twice per year for me so I feel no need to experiment with tire liners. If I punctured twice per week, I'd feel differently.
2. The mechanic who recommended the tire liners - does he use them? I assume that he rides in the same conditions you do. If he doesn't feel he needs them, I wouldn't feel they were necessary for me to use either.
2. The mechanic who recommended the tire liners - does he use them? I assume that he rides in the same conditions you do. If he doesn't feel he needs them, I wouldn't feel they were necessary for me to use either.
10-13-14, 06:34 AM
#41
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Rim tape and tire liners are two quite different things.
10-13-14, 06:16 PM
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10-13-14, 06:23 PM
#43
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That's the tire I'm using and last Sat. I picked up a nail in my rear tire that SHREDDED my tube. SO, I've gone with thick tubes AND a liner to boot. Rolling resitance be damned! I'm not in a big hurry anyway, except fixing flats seems to be entirely TOO MUCH of a waste of my time.
10-13-14, 06:24 PM
#44
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I can't imagine not using rim tape.
10-13-14, 08:48 PM
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You never know what you may pick up in the streets. I say sheath 'em. I've been running tire liners for about a year and a half due to thorns. and my flats are almost non-existent. I do notice a slight rigidness sometimes, But I don't notice the weight. As far as liners versus built-in liners, regular liners can make inserting an innertube more complicated and difficult.
10-14-14, 06:58 AM
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The last tires that I bought were Schwalbe Kojaks. Schwalbe offers tires with various degrees of puncture prevention and Kojaks are rated on the low side for puncture prevention. As a general rule, tires with the greatest degree of puncture prevention will be rated lower relative to speed. I like the Kojaks fine, by the way, and would buy the same thing if I were buying tires for that bike today.
There is no "puncture proof", there is only "puncture resistant". I used to run Specialized Armadillos on my tandem. At that time (a decade or two ago) they were generally regarded as among the most puncture resistant bike tires but they rode like ox cart wheels. I even got a puncture while using them but it took a shard of glass the size of a bayonet to pierce them.
Anytime you're talking about tires YMMV.
There is no "puncture proof", there is only "puncture resistant". I used to run Specialized Armadillos on my tandem. At that time (a decade or two ago) they were generally regarded as among the most puncture resistant bike tires but they rode like ox cart wheels. I even got a puncture while using them but it took a shard of glass the size of a bayonet to pierce them.
Anytime you're talking about tires YMMV.
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