Was I wrong?
#26
Uber Goober
You can work rides one way or another, and it's not so critical how you do things, as to make sure everyone understands what is going on. If you tell 'em it's a non-drop ride, and then drop them, you've got problems. If you post that it's a 16-17 mph ride, then hold 21 mph, you've got problems. If you have new people out that don't know the route, you don't hand them a map, then drop them, you've got problems.
If you tell everyone, "Okay, this group is going to hold 21 mph", and then somebody gloms on that can't hold it, no problem to take on off.
If you're trying to hold a group together, you blew it.
if you're trying to make sure everyone takes a turn pulling, you blew it. It's pretty much guaranteed that in a group of several people, somebody is going to be a little faster than somebody else, and at some point, you're going to be going slower than what you COULD be going just for the sake of keeping that group together. In the local rando group, that sometimes mean that one or two people pull all day and some slower people never take a pull. If you want to stay together and want everyone to pull, speed has got to adjust accordingly.
If you tell everyone, "Okay, this group is going to hold 21 mph", and then somebody gloms on that can't hold it, no problem to take on off.
If you're trying to hold a group together, you blew it.
if you're trying to make sure everyone takes a turn pulling, you blew it. It's pretty much guaranteed that in a group of several people, somebody is going to be a little faster than somebody else, and at some point, you're going to be going slower than what you COULD be going just for the sake of keeping that group together. In the local rando group, that sometimes mean that one or two people pull all day and some slower people never take a pull. If you want to stay together and want everyone to pull, speed has got to adjust accordingly.
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
#27
Trek 500 Kid
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 2,562
Bikes: '83 Trek 970 road --- '86 Trek 500 road
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2904 Post(s)
Liked 382 Times
in
307 Posts
Really it's up to the other guy to pick the group he's comfortable with and he obviously wasn't comfortable with the pace of this one. You could have just passed him but it's probably safer just to keep protocol and have him pull out.
It's really no worse than being told to hold your line. He'll get over it.
It's really no worse than being told to hold your line. He'll get over it.
Last edited by Zinger; 11-25-13 at 01:26 PM.
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Beautiful Long Beach California
Posts: 3,589
Bikes: Eddy Merckx San Remo 76, Eddy Merckx San Remo 76 - Black Silver and Red, Eddy Merckx Sallanches 64 (2); Eddy Merckx MXL;
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
We had a club event yesterday of 1/4, 1/2 and full metric century rides. The group I went with, about 25, left at 0800 for the full that had 3-20+/- mile sections. After a mile warm-up the paceline started and as expected some people started dropping off. After the first section there was 6 of us who did a ride through the stop and kept going while others took a break. We worked together and one dropped so 5 were left by the time we made the end of second loop. This time we stopped for water replenish and off we went. Heading out we passed a couple of riders who decided to hook on the draft. At that time we had a tail wind so the new guys each took a quick pull and everything was fine. We rounded a U-turn and started into the headwind with the pace being held at 21mph. One of the new guys is up for his turn and immediately the pace starts dropping. It gets down to 17mph and is held there for a hundred feet when I YELL....pull out. The guy pulls off and we leave him in the dust.
Just wondering if I was wrong for yelling?
Just wondering if I was wrong for yelling?
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New York and Florida
Posts: 250
Bikes: Surly LHT, Trek 2100, Trek 7000 (1995 or so) Trek 7000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Me too.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13"
I find this really irritating. Is it really necessary? After all this is a biking, not a religious forum, so I don't really care if the supernatural strengthens you. I don't mean to be offensive, but I find your tag line offensive.
I find this really irritating. Is it really necessary? After all this is a biking, not a religious forum, so I don't really care if the supernatural strengthens you. I don't mean to be offensive, but I find your tag line offensive.
#30
Senior Member
Bill is one of the most collegial, encouraging and friendly posters on this forum. I'd hate to see him driven off by this stuff. Can't you just skip the signature line if it bothers you that much? Surely bright sophisticated people like yourselves can do that. Can't you?
__________________
Momento mori, amor fati.
Momento mori, amor fati.
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,473
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1743 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times
in
740 Posts
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13"
I find this really irritating. Is it really necessary? After all this is a biking, not a religious forum, so I don't really care if the supernatural strengthens you. I don't mean to be offensive, but I find your tag line offensive.
I find this really irritating. Is it really necessary? After all this is a biking, not a religious forum, so I don't really care if the supernatural strengthens you. I don't mean to be offensive, but I find your tag line offensive.
I'm not much of a joiner of groups. I have no bumper stickers or tattoos expressing my philosophies. But, it doesn't bother me if others want to share what they care about with me. I like to think I'm a part of various communities and sharing what matters is kind of a bonding experience. No criticism of your perspective. Just sharing mine. Community and all that.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,473
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1743 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times
in
740 Posts
Bill is a valuable part of "us" IMO. His contributions are always positive. Whether his religious beliefs or philosophy are congruent with mine is unimportant to me. I know a good spirit when I see one.
#33
Beicwyr Hapus
Reading this non controversial thread it appears that some Americans are as easily offended as some Austrians.
#34
Trek 500 Kid
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 2,562
Bikes: '83 Trek 970 road --- '86 Trek 500 road
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2904 Post(s)
Liked 382 Times
in
307 Posts
It's inspirational motivation for anyone who chooses to use it. As such it's appropriate in a signature in a 50+ forum.
Last edited by Zinger; 11-25-13 at 06:50 PM.
#35
just keep riding
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Posts: 13,560
Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times
in
22 Posts
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13"
I find this really irritating. Is it really necessary? After all this is a biking, not a religious forum, so I don't really care if the supernatural strengthens you. I don't mean to be offensive, but I find your tag line offensive.
I find this really irritating. Is it really necessary? After all this is a biking, not a religious forum, so I don't really care if the supernatural strengthens you. I don't mean to be offensive, but I find your tag line offensive.
#36
just keep riding
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Posts: 13,560
Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times
in
22 Posts
If this were a timed competitive event, then perhaps you were wrong. The rider was trying to improve his own time. Does Cavendish ask for permission to join a sprintline being formed by an opposing team? Isn't it the group's responsibility just to deal with it?
It kind of smacks of the Cinzano treatment if this were a competitive event.
It kind of smacks of the Cinzano treatment if this were a competitive event.
From the OP's description of the ride up to that point, it seems clear to me that this was a group you could ride with only if you could keep up the pace. This guy was clearly not up to the task. You can't really have a polite conversation about expectations while riding in a fast paceline, so yelling to "pull out" seems to me a very appropriate way to let the guy know the score.
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Posts: 734
Bikes: rivendell romulus terratrike rover
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The signature line adds some depth to our understanding of the person. I don't think we need PC police to take that away from us.
Charlie
Charlie
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,843
Bikes: Trek Domane SL6 Gen 3, Soma Fog Cutter, Focus Mares AL, Detroit Bikes Sparrow FG, Volae Team, Nimbus MUni
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 896 Post(s)
Liked 2,065 Times
in
1,081 Posts
You can work rides one way or another, and it's not so critical how you do things, as to make sure everyone understands what is going on. If you tell 'em it's a non-drop ride, and then drop them, you've got problems. If you post that it's a 16-17 mph ride, then hold 21 mph, you've got problems. If you have new people out that don't know the route, you don't hand them a map, then drop them, you've got problems.
If you tell everyone, "Okay, this group is going to hold 21 mph", and then somebody gloms on that can't hold it, no problem to take on off.
If you're trying to hold a group together, you blew it.
if you're trying to make sure everyone takes a turn pulling, you blew it. It's pretty much guaranteed that in a group of several people, somebody is going to be a little faster than somebody else, and at some point, you're going to be going slower than what you COULD be going just for the sake of keeping that group together. In the local rando group, that sometimes mean that one or two people pull all day and some slower people never take a pull. If you want to stay together and want everyone to pull, speed has got to adjust accordingly.
If you tell everyone, "Okay, this group is going to hold 21 mph", and then somebody gloms on that can't hold it, no problem to take on off.
If you're trying to hold a group together, you blew it.
if you're trying to make sure everyone takes a turn pulling, you blew it. It's pretty much guaranteed that in a group of several people, somebody is going to be a little faster than somebody else, and at some point, you're going to be going slower than what you COULD be going just for the sake of keeping that group together. In the local rando group, that sometimes mean that one or two people pull all day and some slower people never take a pull. If you want to stay together and want everyone to pull, speed has got to adjust accordingly.
#41
Senior Member
Just a noob's point of view: Looking at everyone's input about protocol and the OP's description of the scenario, I'm sure you're quite right in your actions.
Sure would take the stress relief (and most of the fun) out of cycling for me to be in his clips. Was sorta interested in finding the local clubs to try group rides at pace. Not anymore. Attitudes are probably plentiful in a pace line.
Sure would take the stress relief (and most of the fun) out of cycling for me to be in his clips. Was sorta interested in finding the local clubs to try group rides at pace. Not anymore. Attitudes are probably plentiful in a pace line.
#42
Trek 500 Kid
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 2,562
Bikes: '83 Trek 970 road --- '86 Trek 500 road
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2904 Post(s)
Liked 382 Times
in
307 Posts
Just a noob's point of view: Looking at everyone's input about protocol and the OP's description of the scenario, I'm sure you're quite right in your actions.
Sure would take the stress relief (and most of the fun) out of cycling for me to be in his clips. Was sorta interested in finding the local clubs to try group rides at pace. Not anymore. Attitudes are probably plentiful in a pace line.
Sure would take the stress relief (and most of the fun) out of cycling for me to be in his clips. Was sorta interested in finding the local clubs to try group rides at pace. Not anymore. Attitudes are probably plentiful in a pace line.
#44
just keep riding
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Posts: 13,560
Bikes: 2018 Black Mountain Cycles MCD,2017 Advocate Cycles Seldom Seen Drop Bar, 2017 Niner Jet 9 Alloy, 2015 Zukas custom road, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times
in
22 Posts
Just a noob's point of view: Looking at everyone's input about protocol and the OP's description of the scenario, I'm sure you're quite right in your actions.
Sure would take the stress relief (and most of the fun) out of cycling for me to be in his clips. Was sorta interested in finding the local clubs to try group rides at pace. Not anymore. Attitudes are probably plentiful in a pace line.
Sure would take the stress relief (and most of the fun) out of cycling for me to be in his clips. Was sorta interested in finding the local clubs to try group rides at pace. Not anymore. Attitudes are probably plentiful in a pace line.
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,843
Bikes: Trek Domane SL6 Gen 3, Soma Fog Cutter, Focus Mares AL, Detroit Bikes Sparrow FG, Volae Team, Nimbus MUni
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 896 Post(s)
Liked 2,065 Times
in
1,081 Posts
Just a noob's point of view: Looking at everyone's input about protocol and the OP's description of the scenario, I'm sure you're quite right in your actions.
Sure would take the stress relief (and most of the fun) out of cycling for me to be in his clips. Was sorta interested in finding the local clubs to try group rides at pace. Not anymore. Attitudes are probably plentiful in a pace line.
Sure would take the stress relief (and most of the fun) out of cycling for me to be in his clips. Was sorta interested in finding the local clubs to try group rides at pace. Not anymore. Attitudes are probably plentiful in a pace line.
You might find yourself enjoying a nice tight paceline with friends at some point, or perhaps not. Don't sweat it, just ride and enjoy.
#46
Cycle Year Round
And there is a little box in preferences that one can block out all signature lines if one chooses. Some are too easily irritated.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#47
Cycle Year Round
Just a noob's point of view: Looking at everyone's input about protocol and the OP's description of the scenario, I'm sure you're quite right in your actions.
Sure would take the stress relief (and most of the fun) out of cycling for me to be in his clips. Was sorta interested in finding the local clubs to try group rides at pace. Not anymore. Attitudes are probably plentiful in a pace line.
Sure would take the stress relief (and most of the fun) out of cycling for me to be in his clips. Was sorta interested in finding the local clubs to try group rides at pace. Not anymore. Attitudes are probably plentiful in a pace line.
Riding a paceline is a great deal of fun, but you have to know when to drop out. The rest of the guys in a paceline are fine if you only hold speed for a couple seconds and then drop back. The stonger guys do not mind pulling longer. The idea is moving the entire group as fast as possible, without safety issues. What is not fine is slowing the entire group down and causing safety issues.
Give a paceline a try in a century, just understand when to pull out.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D'uh... I am a Cutter
Posts: 6,139
Bikes: '17 Access Old Turnpike Gravel bike, '14 Trek 1.1, '13 Cannondale CAAD 10, '98 CAD 2, R300
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
9 Posts
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13"
I find this really irritating. Is it really necessary? After all this is a biking, not a religious forum, so I don't really care if the supernatural strengthens you. I don't mean to be offensive, but I find your tag line offensive.
I find this really irritating. Is it really necessary? After all this is a biking, not a religious forum, so I don't really care if the supernatural strengthens you. I don't mean to be offensive, but I find your tag line offensive.
Your thinking if you just huff all up and look like a real jerk... yelling at someone FOR NO APPARENT REASON.... the OP of this thread will see just how wrong it is. Once again... good point. That really did look like someone acting in poor taste. Thanks for sharing.
#49
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Providence, Rhode Island and Martha's Vineyard, Mass.
Posts: 14
Bikes: Scott CR1, Kona NuNu, Gary Fisher Hoo Koo e Koo, Pinarello Treviso
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13"
I find this really irritating. Is it really necessary? After all this is a biking, not a religious forum, so I don't really care if the supernatural strengthens you. I don't mean to be offensive, but I find your tag line offensive.
I find this really irritating. Is it really necessary? After all this is a biking, not a religious forum, so I don't really care if the supernatural strengthens you. I don't mean to be offensive, but I find your tag line offensive.
#50
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Providence, Rhode Island and Martha's Vineyard, Mass.
Posts: 14
Bikes: Scott CR1, Kona NuNu, Gary Fisher Hoo Koo e Koo, Pinarello Treviso
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts