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Pedal Forward, any good?

Old 01-26-15, 03:51 PM
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OH~Treker
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Pedal Forward, any good?

Hi all,
Recently had my right knee "scoped" for the 2x. At the end of my regular riding season in Oct I was having lots of pain, found 2 meniscus tears and lots of arthritis.I was wondering if there is any one out there with knee arthritis that has gone the pedal forward route and is it beneficial? I don't want to go recumbent but was wondering about an Electra Townie 21 spd. I know they are slow but I am going for the longevity of the knee. I am 61+ and commute a couple of times a week to work(14 mi. r/t) in addition to my fun rides. Any experience with this situation would be appreciated. Thanks, John
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Old 01-26-15, 04:09 PM
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I have a friend who has one who really likes her Townie. Many people ride crank forward bikes and like them a lot.

What I don't have a good answer for is if they'll help your knee issues. REI and other bike stores carry them, so I suggest a test ride.

(I'd suggest putting recumbents back on the table, but it's only a suggestion. )
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Old 01-26-15, 06:17 PM
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My cannondale adventure 2 has a slight pedal forward design, though not nearly as much as a townie.
I don't have knee problems so I can't comment on pain relief in that area, but a pedal forward position will relieve some stress on the knee.
How much you need will be a product of trial and error. I too would re-consider a recumbent.
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Old 01-26-15, 06:42 PM
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At a guess, a crank-forward would change the point in your knee bend where the pressure ends up, and that may help. Or, it might be worse. It will definitely be slower. Gonna hold off on the bent until you're too old to enjoy it? Although to be honest, the same thing would apply to a bent - might work fine, might be worse.
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Old 01-26-15, 07:57 PM
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I haven't read or heard of crank forward or recumbent bikes being particularly better for knee issues than conventional bikes.
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Old 01-26-15, 09:51 PM
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Hi, I have arthritis in both knees. I have not ridden pedal forward bikes. I have found that having the seat rather high helps a lot. Also, riding a lot has helped me. I ride mainly on flat land, no hills here, and I don't push my pain threshold. I ride once or twice a day. I have an exercise bike too. My Orthopedist says moving the joint helps. I also strengthen my legs by lifting weights. I do sets of twenty straight (unbent) leg lifts with ankle weights. I do them a couple times a week. I do them in three directions. This is supposed to strengthen the muscles around the knee and they act as a shock absorber.

I have had both knees scoped. I think if you have arthritis that it is bad operation. It was for me both times.
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Old 01-26-15, 10:29 PM
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IME, The biggest factors as far as knees go, are overall leg extension, and leg angle at peak load. This cuts both ways. Many riders lower knee pain by raising the saddle so the knee is more open at peak load, but others have issues if they allow the leg to straighten too much at the bottom of the stroke. In some cases, a shorter crank can help, or more use of the ankle to drop the heel at the top, and reach at the bottom, which combine to reduce total knee movement.

But the biggest factor is to reduce pedaling force by avoiding low rpm/high force pedaling, especially pushing a higher gear in climbs. Do your knees a favor and get a bigger cassette or granny gear, and learn to spin more.
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Old 01-27-15, 08:05 AM
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I've had arthroscopic surgery on both knees (2007? and 2010?). My physical therapy was to ride my bike on the trainer every day. The first session was about 6 hours after the surgery.
After 4 weeks my Sports Medicine doc (who is also a cyclist) said I could get back out on the road.
Never even looked at or considered a pedal forward bike. I've always been a roadie and still am at 70 y/o.
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Old 01-27-15, 01:26 PM
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Sometimes people with knee problems benefit from short cranks. They require less knee bend at the top of the pedal stroke. The idea is to spin more to compensate for the reduced leverage - like eating the elephant in more, smaller bikes rather than fewer large bites.
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Old 01-27-15, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by OH~Treker View Post
Hi all,
Recently had my right knee "scoped" for the 2x. At the end of my regular riding season in Oct I was having lots of pain, found 2 meniscus tears and lots of arthritis.I was wondering if there is any one out there with knee arthritis that has gone the pedal forward route and is it beneficial? I don't want to go recumbent but was wondering about an Electra Townie 21 spd. I know they are slow but I am going for the longevity of the knee. I am 61+ and commute a couple of times a week to work(14 mi. r/t) in addition to my fun rides. Any experience with this situation would be appreciated. Thanks, John
It's best to avoid standing on your pedals to increase joint life due to overloading of the joint. Go to a lower gear and stay seated. Believe it or not..........
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Old 01-27-15, 03:13 PM
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The reason I like the pedal forward design is because of balance issues. A few years ago I was diagnosed with vertigo. Horrible dizziness that makes getting out of a chair a dangerous activity. Most days I have no issues, but it comes and goes and these days is usually mild. With a pedal forward bike you can have full leg extension yet touch the ground without having to leave the seat. With my bike it's the balls of the feet that make the contact, but with a townie your entire foot can make flat contact with the ground. This is a great innovation for cyclists who have lost some steadiness due to age.
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Old 01-27-15, 03:56 PM
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The greatest knee saving value, in my experience, has been a good bike fitting. I've gone through two sessions - two hours each - and she's checking and adjusting everything, from shoe inserts and cleat position to seat height and handlebar size, position and height/reach. She added some extenders to move the pedals outward away from the frame a bit - made a world of difference to my knees. We've still got to wait for the right stems to come in and we'll put the new ergo brake levers on the new wider bars, pad the everlovin' hell outta the bars and I'll be good to go. I can't say enough in favor of a good bike fitting.

I had meniscus repair on my left knee. My body's inflammatory response to the surgery jump-started arthritis in the knee. I went from mild arthritic changes to intermediate- to high-grade changes in the knee - basically a lifetime's worth of arthritis in six months. It doesn't hurt to pedal, though sometimes I need one or two canes to walk - go figure. I'll be starting out on an extended tour (well, extended for me - one or two months) in April and I have high hopes for the ride!
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Old 01-28-15, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by OH~Treker View Post
Hi all,
Recently had my right knee "scoped" for the 2x. At the end of my regular riding season in Oct I was having lots of pain, found 2 meniscus tears and lots of arthritis.I was wondering if there is any one out there with knee arthritis that has gone the pedal forward route and is it beneficial? I don't want to go recumbent but was wondering about an Electra Townie 21 spd. I know they are slow but I am going for the longevity of the knee. I am 61+ and commute a couple of times a week to work(14 mi. r/t) in addition to my fun rides. Any experience with this situation would be appreciated. Thanks, John
Yes, my wife inherited weak knees, some arthritis. I got her on a crank forward bike and she's been pain free, though at a fairly social pace and no real hills for a year. Crank forward is not designed for hill climbing. She has since gone to a lightweight 20 speed upright dutch-style, but every once and while she'll go back to the crank forward if she feels her knees are barking. They're great bikes but finding one that isn't a heavy weight bloated cruiser is a chore, your options are fairly limited.
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Old 01-28-15, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
Yes, my wife inherited weak knees, some arthritis. I got her on a crank forward bike and she's been pain free, though at a fairly social pace and no real hills for a year. Crank forward is not designed for hill climbing. She has since gone to a lightweight 20 speed upright dutch-style, but every once and while she'll go back to the crank forward if she feels her knees are barking. They're great bikes but finding one that isn't a heavy weight bloated cruiser is a chore, your options are fairly limited.
Specifically, what bikes are she using?
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Old 01-28-15, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
Sometimes people with knee problems benefit from short cranks. They require less knee bend at the top of the pedal stroke. The idea is to spin more to compensate for the reduced leverage - like eating the elephant in more, smaller bikes rather than fewer large bites.
+1 As someone with meniscus tears and osteoarthritis in both knees, short cranks are a life saver. IMO CF (crank forward) won't do as much good as switching to shortie cranks.
On a recumbent you'd have to resist the temptation to do leg presses- with your back against a seat you can apply more force to the pedals than on an upright.

High cadence, low gearing.

Last edited by delcrossv; 01-28-15 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 01-28-15, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by avidone1 View Post
Specifically, what bikes are she using?
Her crank forward is an '05 DX Giant Suede, before they bloated that model into a chunky bike. Her Dutch style is a Electra Mixte Ticino 20D, lightweight frame and 10 speed cassette in the back Ticino | Electra Bikes . For obvious reasons the 20D Ticino is hard to find built up, we special ordered and are very happy with the bike. The quality, weight is a real joy.
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Old 01-28-15, 12:55 PM
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One thing crank forward bikes seem to have in common, is the seat tube angle is incompatible with the angle all Front derailleur makers assume that the seat tube will Be


IE that 72/73 degree range .. So in order to get the gearing Low enough so you are not needing to Push to big a 1 by crank Gear , as your Lowest.

a rear wheel substitute with one of the Hybrid Internal gear hubs with a external Cassette driver (8x3, 9x3)

gets you that High-Middle-Low, of a triple crank, in a frame that wont accept an actual triple chainring crank shifted by a front derailleur.



YES the stop with your feet flat on the ground is a comfort for many Riders who are less secure tippy-toeing at stops,

or needing to slip off the saddle to reach the ground on upright bikes with most BB heights .

[FWIW Bromptons Folding bikes Made for Urban use have a pretty low BB so a Stop and putting your foot down while seated

is pretty easy , though so is 'tagging the pedal' in a corner so One cannot pedal thru sharp corners .. coast, inside pedal up, and all is well.

Last edited by fietsbob; 01-28-15 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 01-28-15, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
One thing crank forward bikes seem to have in common, is the seat tube angle is incompatible with the angle all Front derailleur makers assume that the seat tube will Be


IE that 72/73 degree range .. So in order to get the gearing Low enough so you are not needing to Push to big a 1 by crank Gear , as your Lowest.

a rear wheel substitute with one of the Hybrid Internal gear hubs with a external Cassette driver (8x3, 9x3)

gets you that High-Middle-Low, of a triple crank, in a frame that wont accept an actual triple chainring crank shifted by a front derailleur.



YES the stop with your feet flat on the ground is a comfort for many Riders who are less secure tippy-toeing at stops,

or needing to slip off the saddle to reach the ground on upright bikes with most BB heights .

[FWIW Bromptons Folding bikes Made for Urban use have a pretty low BB so a Stop and putting your foot down while seated

is pretty easy , though so is 'tagging the pedal' in a corner so One cannot pedal thru sharp corners .. coast, inside pedal up, and all is well.
A problem easily solved by an E type derailleur, or my go to solution for bikes in this category, IGH.
And I think the angle is way slacker than 72 degrees.
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Old 01-28-15, 01:23 PM
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I think My Old Stumpjumber seat tube is Lower angle than that.. 68 or so..

( went IGHub/IGCrank on my Brommy)


But Im thinking the pedal Motion of crank forward
is perhaps pushing you back and forth on the saddle , may get a Red Bottom after a while
so the low friction skin cream application may be useful ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 01-28-15 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 01-28-15, 02:07 PM
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Any bike can be converted to a "crank forward" design. All that needs be done is change the seat post to a "layback" stye that allows the seat to placed more over the rear wheel.

I converted mine by installing a 7/8" SOLID stainless steel bar bent roughly 85 deg. at one end to move the seat back. With the pull back bars my bike is as comfy as an easy chair to ride!!
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Old 01-28-15, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
+1 As someone with meniscus tears and osteoarthritis in both knees, short cranks are a life saver. IMO CF (crank forward) won't do as much good as switching to shortie cranks.
On a recumbent you'd have to resist the temptation to do leg presses- with your back against a seat you can apply more force to the pedals than on an upright.

High cadence, low gearing.
+1 --> Short cranks and low gearing for higher cadence is the ticket to less pressure on your knees.
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Old 01-28-15, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
+1 --> Short cranks and low gearing for higher cadence is the ticket to less pressure on your knees.
I think that would only work if you could lower your bottom bracket. In my case having the seat up enough to get near my max leg extension makes it easier to pedal. If I put shorter cranks on it wouldn't I need to raise my seat to get the same extension?
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Old 01-28-15, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
I think that would only work if you could lower your bottom bracket. In my case having the seat up enough to get near my max leg extension makes it easier to pedal. If I put shorter cranks on it wouldn't I need to raise my seat to get the same extension?
Yes, saddle height is generally set with reference to the bottom of the pedal stroke.
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Old 02-02-18, 11:29 PM
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Crank Forward Conversion

Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
Any bike can be converted to a "crank forward" design. All that needs be done is change the seat post to a "layback" stye that allows the seat to placed more over the rear wheel.

I converted mine by installing a 7/8" SOLID stainless steel bar bent roughly 85 deg. at one end to move the seat back. With the pull back bars my bike is as comfy as an easy chair to ride!!
I'm late to this discussion. Any photos of your conversion? Would love to see the details. Thanks! -- Christine (I'm 61).
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Old 02-04-18, 02:54 PM
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Yes, high cadence is the only thing. You want to be climbing at 90+ and over 100 on the flat. If you don't have a computer with cadence, get one. It'll take some months to get used to doing that, but once you have you'll have a long life of cycling ahead of you.
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