btppberk

I'd like to buy a new bike but I'd like it to be a racier bike rather than an endurance. I know that it all depends on the body and the bike, and that a bike fit before purchasing is the way to go, but what's a rough rule of thumb for how flexible you need to be to comfortably fit a race geometry without a big stack of spacers?

Russ Roth

Touch your toes? I actually haven't heard of a real standard.

This is mine from the start of the season, I've since flipped the stem which probably dropped it another .5-.75 on an inch, nothing major though. Its still higher then my track bike and I ride that in the drops but the track has shorter cranks that keep the knees from hitting the gut and only have to maintain the position for 4000 meters at most. The race I ride the hoods and can comfortably do so for 3-4 hours. There is a limit of how much stack height you can have with a carbon steerer tube, usually 1.5" for a 1 1/8 steerer so there is that.

GAtkins

I am a 57 year old clyde and ride both a race and endurance geometry to equal levels of mediocrity.

Glenn

Carbonfiberboy 

I was completely comfortable on my race bike, sitting on it in the shop on their trainer, perfectly comfortable. I was in my mid-50s. I'd ridden a race bike in my teens though it was a French-fit bike, really all there was back then. I wasn't a couch potato. I was active, skied, hiked. could easily touch my toes, had been riding French-fit bikes for 5 years before purchase. (French-fit = bars level with saddle.) First time I rode it on the road, I knew I'd bought a rocket ship.

Carbonfiberboy 

I trained for downhill but only raced one. Long time ago. I could put my knees in my armpits. Just now tried that. I'm about 2" away from getting them solidly in there - I'm too fat. Sit on a chair, spread your legs, reach down between your legs, put your fingers under your heels and pull down. One should be able to pull ones shoulders down between one's knees.

My guess us that your early pain was cramping. Doesn't take much to reach overuse if one hasn't been doing something similar. My wife an I joined a gym in 1979 and have done weight and aerobic training consistently since then. Weight training is fabulous for flexibility if one does everything full range of motion. Plus I did skilled manual work until I retired 10 years ago. I had to work out at the gym just to be able to do what I had to do. After I started riding again at 50, I'd work until 5, then hit the rollers for an hour, then go to the gym for another hour. I don't recover fast enough now to be able to do that most days.

Iride01 

What's the saddle to handlebar drop on the bikes you currently ride? Try bikes that give you something lower than those bike and come with a big stack of spacers new out of the box.

Then as you ride and get used to being at one level, take a spacer or two out and get used to that.

I typically find that as my beer gut gets bigger during the winter, I don't get as low and spend more time on the top of the hoods. By late spring, I can stay in the drops much longer. I've still got a spacer I'm toying with the idea of removing. But I think I'll need a shorter stem to do that comfortably.

woodcraft

It's not just saddle/bar drop, but short wheelbase steep angles and stiff construction making for a harsher ride,

so you want to have enough fitness to have the body provide the shock absorption.

btppberk

Thanks for the help. That's a good idea. I could take a spacer out from my current bike and see how that goes. Would I have to adjust anything else?

My problem is my flexibility, though I'm working on that. In the meantime, my current bike is driving me crazy and I'd like to upgrade. I suppose I could buy the bike I aspire to and get refit in a few months when I am more flexible.


Interesting. I didn't know that. It seems my current bike--which is an 9-yearold race bike with a bunch of spacers--has a shorter wheelbase and about the same angles as many race bikes now.

btppberk

I'm trying to get a rough approximation of how my current bike fit would compare to a new bike. Does it make sense to calculate its stack with the added spacers to get an approximate stack/reach ratio?

Iride01 

You might need to change something to adjust your reach. Stem will be my choice for my set of circumstances. But you might not need to change anything else. At least not for the time you might want to try it out. You could scoot the saddle up a little to compensate some. Whether that is a long term solution or not is dependent on other fit factors.

The spacer gets put on top of the stem when you remove it. If you have never played with stem height on threadless headsets and aren't too spiffy with other DIY items, then let a mechanic at a bike shop or someone that has done this before show you the first time.

btppberk

I'm glad your body adapted. But I'll pass on a month of searing pain! Nice bike though!

btppberk

Thanks for the tips and good idea about the mechanic! I'll follow your advice on getting their help.

Iride01 

When I said , I meant scoot it ithe the horizontal direction of up which is also known as forward.

aceSSone

IMHO, Unless you have back or neck problems most ppl can ride a road bike. Looking through your eyebrows instead of the natural full face forward helps the neck. It's more about your position on the bike that helps make it comfortable. I like to give my take on how to ride a road bike when I do fits.
Try this:
Stand up, bend over at the waist until your back muscles are relaxed and your core takes your torso weight. About 75°- 80°. Hold your arms out with 90° elbow, like you're on a road bike. Lift one foot. Feel how your torso weight is transferred through your core and legs to the floor (the pedal). That's pretty close to what your full speed position should feel like. Say in the 53x15.
Greg Lemond wrote "The Complete Book of Cycling" and stated during his cycling clinics riders couldn't get in the proper position if the seat tube angle was greater than 73°, (page 132). Most bikes today don't have 73° seat tubes. They (mfrs) are more interested in tight race geometry which means 74° seat tubes it gets worse the smaller they go, it also depends on size and manufacturer. Just look at their geometry charts. The position is related to the BB. When they stand the seat tube up, they also move the BB back. A lot of ppl don't take frame geometry into account. They're more worried about brand status.
Keith Bontrager, frame builder wrote an article called The Myth of KOPS. When he builds custom frames, he centers the rider center of gravity over the down pedal power stroke.
The position I describe does just that. My training recommends a saddle setback of 10% of saddle height. But there is a variation bc of saddle length.
In order to get this position the saddle center needs to be at 73° and the bars need to be moved back. Being back lets you spread the work out more on your quads, the power stroke starts sooner and gives you a better saddle anchor and torso weight anchor to power the pedals from. The fads of long stems and forward saddles in combination with the new geometry really ruin the power position I describe. I believe most riders are on a bike that's too big for them. The top tube prevents getting back far enough. And then shops that do KOPS move the saddle farther forward. That moves your CG closer to the front which weights your hands and prevents weight transfer to the pedals.
Keith Bontrager, frame builder wrote an article called The Myth of KOPS. When he builds custom frames, he centers the rider center of gravity over the down pedal power stroke.
The position I describe does just that. My training recommends a saddle setback of 10% of saddle height. But there is a variation bc of different saddle lengths.
So the best way to get a stack measurement to prevent a lot of spacers is to get a dynamic (pedaling at speed in describe position) stack and reach fit. When you do, have them keep the saddle center at 73°.
I just describe what I think. Try it, if it works for you, even better. I'm 5'6" so a small bike. Today's bike geometry is not for short riders. The position and fit I describe is the same for tall riders but their frames are closer to 72° 73°, so they have a built in advantage.

Hope that helps.

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm exactly the same way. That said, it's obvious over in the rolling hills thread that racers have moved on from this and now favor a forward position to open the hip angle, which improves breathing and aero, though at the cost of some comfort. The tougher you are and the better shape you're in, the more discomfort you can handle. Just how it is. I think some of us can remember back when racers rode box rims for climbing because they're lighter. Now they run heavier deep rims because their climbing speeds are so high. Aero has taken over. That said, most cyclists aren't strong enough to take enough advantage of these positions and equipment to make them worthwhile. IMO.

shelbyfv