Sam12345

Im wondering how much rise Ill get from a 0degree stem, compared to a 7degree stem would the front end rise 1cm? 0.5cm? Its a 19.5m headtube and I have 1cm space under it and I think its too low for me Obviously I dont want to go to high with this adjustable stem that I've ordered as it will look odd... Is it possible to get another steerer, or Do I need to replace the whole forks?

Today I notice my neck had less pain compared to a lower one I had been using but I also shortend the reach aswell...

What headtube sizes do you 6ft 3 riders use?

oldbobcat

The head tube length is irrelevant, but you need the stem length to compute rise.

sin(7 degrees) = 0.12186934340514748111289391923153. That means a 12 cm stem will give you 1.46 cm of rise. That's parallel to the head angle though, not perpendicular to the horizon. If you need perpendicular, you need to know the head angle.

Kontact 

This tool will allow you to figure out whatever you want using the specs listed with different stems:
Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net

What do you mean by "headtube sizes"?

Sam12345

my old frame was more comfortable for my neck, shoulders, I think it had a high head tube,It was either a 57 or 58 frame. my Planet X is 19.5cm headtube with a 59top tube, 60cm frame

Kontact 

That's "Head Tube Length" on geometry charts, and it is a slightly elusive concept now that headsets can be internal or external and doesn't reflect on fork length. For what you are asking, "Stack" on geo charts is more useful because it is the height of the top of the head tube above the BB.

19.5 might be low, or it might not include some things important for comparison. I don't know what Planet X bike you have.

Iride01 

On the geometry charts, frame stack is what will tell you if one frame model will get you a higher bar height compared to the effective top tube length or the frame reach. Head tube length won't tell you that reliably across the different models and sizes.

Forks are usually pretty expensive for new. And you'll have issues trying to find any to give you more bar height than the range the frame was designed for. It'd be better if you just got a bike or frame that has the higher frame stack with the reach or effective top tube length you want. Otherwise you are going to make that bike look like the Aflac duck when it stretches out its neck to quack.

oldbobcat

Your neck pain might be the 59cm top tube's way of talking to you. If your old bike was comfortable, I would measure it and try to figure out why. Try to adjust the new bike to match the old one as closely as possible. The measurements most relevant would be saddle to bottom bracket or bottom of pedal stroke, saddle setback (from bottom bracket), handlebar drop (vertical height of saddle minus vertical height of brake hoods) and actual reach (saddle to brake hoods). I advocate taking handlebar measurements at the brake hoods because handlebars and hoods are all shaped differently, i don't know the width and reach of your bars, and the hoods is where you'll do most of your riding. As for saddle measurements, I advocate measuring at the part you sit on. Some riders sit on the nose and others push their pelvis to the butt end.

oldbobcat

Head tubes may have gotten marginally shorter as fork blades got marginally longer, to accommodate modern fat tires. On the other hand, that space may have simply been taken from where the crown accommodated the brake bolt. And regardless, we're only talking about a few millimeters. But measuring the two bikes as I outlined in my most previous post should show you where it went sideways.

Sam12345

I have the same saddle, with the same setback and height, the old frame was a form victuer, 2011 It had 3cm of spacers on top. Was either a Size 57 or 58. I dont know how big the headtube was though, I had a 140 stem on there, sometimes a 130. if it was 20.5 then it would be 20+3cm 23cm total height, compared to my 19.5+5mm+1cm = 21cm, I have a planet X Rt-80 now 60cm https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/planet-x-rt-80-2017/

oldbobcat

So I take that you don't have the Form Victeur anymore. Did it look like this?

Sam12345

Thats right, I crashed and it eventually cracked so I shop, and came to the planet X forgot to mention I have the same bars too...

Kontact 

I don't think forks have gotten longer - I think the crowns have gotten smaller because they don't need to mount a rim brake caliper.

On the other hand, head tubes now include the 2-3cm that used to be taken up by external headsets. So a frame with an external headset might have a 14cm headtube, while an otherwise identical frame with internal bearings would be 16cm.

Sam12345

Also that first spacer, I think was 1.5cm I had 1.5cm of spacers on top of that

oldbobcat

Fair enough on fork blade length. But I haven't seen an external headset on a new mainstream carbon frame in almost 20 years, and the Forme Victeur shown certainly doesn't have one. But I've seen your point.

Kontact 

I don't know that the OP's Planet X bike is carbon. Here's one with an external headset:

oldbobcat

Your problem is difficult to ascertain without dimensions or images of the original bike, or images of how you're sitting on this one. But I'm going to go out on a limb based on some assumptions. First, there's nothing in the image of a medium Victeur to suggest that your large had an exceptionally long head tube or an exceptionally long or short top tube. It looks like a nice typical open-mold racing frame that took its cues from the Specialized Tarmac of the period. But you went from a 57-58 to a 60 with a 59cm top tube, so you presumably added 1-3 cm of stack (head tube) and 1-2.5 cm of reach (top tube). So if you're using the same 13 or 14 cm stems, you might be reaching too far.

Now I'm going to present another fit hypothesis, that the handlebar might be too high. Some years ago I chanced to demo some endurance bikes from Trek and Raleigh. They guys in the shop were always ribbing me for riding with a low handlebar, so I was looking forward to sitting up a little and enjoying the relaxed geometries. So I got bikes that were roughly the same size as mine that were essentially a couple cm shorter in reach and a couple cm taller in stack. And after a few miles my neck, shoulders, and wrists were in pain. My back angle was fighting my arm length for room to stretch and my shoulders were hunched up to my ears. The handlebar was too close and high for my arm length. There is at least one professional fitter on Youtube who confirms that this can happen. You seem obsessed that you can't get your bar high enough, but the size of your old bike and your satisfaction with it seem to indicate this is not the problem.

So here are my data points, in case you're interested. I'm a puny whisker shorter than 6'. My legs are long, though, 35". I don't know my exact arm length, but they're in proportion with the legs; my ape factor is 1.06. I ride an older H2 Trek Madone, 58 cm, with a 57.3 cm top tube, a head tube of about 18.9 cm, with a 12 cm -10 degree stem with 1 cm of spacer that includes a half-height compression cone. In other words, practically slammed. I use a setback seat post and my saddle is pretty much centered over the clamp. If I'm careful about it, I can straddle my handlebar stem.

I bring this up not because I want you to be like me but to consider that your bar might just be too high. But your first job is to get the reach sussed out. If you were happy with the reach on your old bike, you need to find a shorter stem so you can duplicate it on the new one, and then experiment with height. Or you could eliminate the guess work and spend a couple hundred for a professional fitting.

oldbobcat

Ah, the gravel bike. X-large has a 59 cm virtual top tube, but a 165 mm head tube. I looked it up on the Planet X web site. I'll bet he bought an x-large Pro Carbon, 58.5 top tube and 19.0 head tube.

Sam12345

https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/planet-x-rt-80-2017/

Not my bike, but same one...

oldbobcat

I see. Not the Pro Carbon. Similar geometry in x-large though. A 20.5 cm head tube on a large Victeur is highly unlikely. That would have put it in Specialized Roubaix territory. Your new bike likely just moves the handlebar 1-2 cm out and 1-2 cm up. Presumably, you upsized because the large (57-58 cm) was just too small for your 6'3"? Did you mention your leg length?

Sam12345

91inseam I believe, saddle as been between the 80-81.5cm height




I have 1 spacer on the Planet X now as it got 2cm removed, about 2 years back.

The forme, when I had it around 2011, 2012... from there, 130/140 stem, with 1.5cm of spacers under, and the other, I think 1.5 spacer that sits on the headset

oldbobcat

Nice bike. Nothing weird about the geometry or the setup. Handlebar is definitely not too high, unless your fingertips hang down to your knees. Looks like something I'd ride if I was 3 inches taller. Except for the straight-up seatpost. I need some setback to take some of the weight off my arms. Barrel chest and swimmer's shoulders.

Kontact 

Yeah, you are sitting much too far forward. Both compared to the old bike, and in general.

Sam12345

The smp saddle, makes you sit back 1.5cm compared to the old saddle, but I did have the smp on the forme roughly 2014+

I think the forme is 73STA and the planet X 72.5degree

Sam12345

So does anyone think the formes headtube looks bigger?

Its ashame I cant find any geometry chart for it, and I forme are useless for contact

oldbobcat

No, but with the the taller cone, extra spacers, and positive flip of the stem, its handlebar is visibly a couple centimeters higher. Look at the height of the handlebar ends in relation to the head tube cluster. And you're sporting a longer stem on the Planet X. And the top tube on the Planet X is probably longer. Find a shorter stem and flip it and see. Or just flip the 13 you have on there now. That will raise the bar 2.92 cm. Relative to the head axis, of course.