Saddle height query
 

Looking for some advice on saddle height.

I'm riding a 56cm road frame with SPD (NOT SPD-SL) pedals. I have been trying for the last 6 months or so to get my saddle height in a better place. I thought it was more or less there, until yesterday, when a friend took some photos of me riding. As they were on an iPhone, they are Live photos and I've managed to string the ones that were taken in quick successions together to create two videos.

I would really appreciate it if someone could have a look below and tell me what they think?

Many thanks in advance.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a76baea22.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c5357dcd2.png
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1cdc13414b.png
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5e32856307.png
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7def9e9ad9.png
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...979c8e6e9e.png

There are folks here who know a lot about bike fit. I am not one of them.

However, these are my quick observations:

The photos are not at an ideal angle, but what I am measuring is 135° for the extended position, and 93° for the (approximately) minimum position.

In general, > 140° or so would indicate the saddle is too high.

If I am guessing the position of your femur's greater trochanter correctly, then your saddle might be a bit too far forward. (Have someone competent check that.)

My gut response also was that your seat is too far forward. But it might just be picture angle. Good luck

What is your body telling you? You don't mention any gripes. Maybe you just don't like seeing yourself in pictures! <grin>

A lot of people want their saddle further back. I don't. You need to determine if you do or don't. But don't just move it because someone told you to. Do it because you are trying to solve some real issue you are having.

Possibly you have room to go up with your saddle height. (which will also move your saddle back) But if you aren't having issues and don't need to solve a lack of performance, I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks for all the responses. I should have been clearer why I was posting. I had the saddle too low for a long time and fixed it at the beginning of this year. I wasn't in any real discomfort before but the new position feels a lot better. I used the LeMond, but this came out too low - not sure what's going on there. I then used the 'other' method (which I cannot remember the name of) which measures from the pedal axle instead of the b/b to take into account the length of the cranks. This was better but still off. What I have ended up with is the LeMond method + some. Odd. It feels fine to ride but I sometimes feel like I could be extending just a bit more. Then I just think that's me thinking about it too much.



Would you say that the saddle should maybe come up then?

As for the fore/aft, yes, the saddle is far forward. It is almost at the 'max' on the rails. This was because I was sitting on the nose beforehand. The only explanation I can think of for that is that the stem is too long for me, but I had a 100mm on originally and the problem existed then too. I have a 110mm on now and prefer that. Is it simply a matter of 'training' myself to sit correctly on the saddle when it is further back?



This is very true. My original reason for posting was because I feel like it could maybe come up a tiny bit. I have a very experience family member who I tend to go for for advice. He seemed to think it was an alright height, but when I watch him pedal he has more leg extension than me.


Also, another question, if I was to slide the saddle back, would that mean I would need to increase/decrease saddle height at all? Trying to work out in my brain how they would affect each other.

Thanks!

Nope. I think your height looks good, at least from the photos.

Mark where it is (height, fore-aft) and then (if you are experiencing any balance issues, or hand/wrist numbness), maybe move your saddle back 5mm.

(If you do move it back on the rails, it will slightly lengthen the reach to the pedals, so increases the effective saddle height very slightly.)

Balance is often best achieved if you can draw a straight line from the center of your bottom bracket, through the seat tube and post, and intersecting with your femur's greater trochanter.

As mentioned by others, this is well into the realm of personal preference. I see nothing obviously wrong about your fit.

What issues do you hope to address?

Here is a website (which sells a $5 PDF that has more details) that might be of help: https://bikedynamics.co.uk

The idea is that instead of using arbitrary ad hoc formulae for things like saddle height, it is better to put the rider on a trainer and then take some stills from movies and measure distances and angles that way.

People tend to want to put the saddle a bit higher than what is ideal. Tour de France riders are famous for lowering their saddles by the third day or so.

This wasn't directed at me, but is related to what I was saying.

In general, what you want to do is get the saddle height and fore/aft position correct, and then worry about the handlebars. Ideally, you want to be balanced on the saddle in such a way that you put almost no weight on your wrists and hands. Then pick a stem that gives you enough extension so that you feel comfortable and can maintain the balance, and if you are interested in being aero (I am not), you want the bars as low as you can go (within reason). It seems a bit counter-intuitive, but the higher the bars, the more weight you are going to be putting on them. You want your arms to be about 90° from a line whose endpoints are defined by your spine, and the elbows at least slightly bent. Yours are quite bent, so you can probably move the saddle back if you need to without having to replace your stem.

The main point is you want to avoid correcting for a stem (or top tube) that is too long by shoving your saddle too far forward (unless you really do prefer to ride like that).

Something I've noticed is that saddle height, or more accurately saddle to pedal spindle (or bottom bracket) distance, varies depending on your usual cadence, and what you do with your feet. The faster you spin, the closer you have to be to the pedals. On the other hand, if you pedal slower with long powerful strokes, you need more leg extension.

So it's not just a matter of how you fit into the geometry at rest, you have to be moving in a usual way and make adjustments with respect to that.

To me, is seems you may be pedaling a bit too "toes down." If that's the way you "naturally" want to pedal, it may be OK. But, that could explain why you found the .883 and 1.09 (pedal to saddle) formulas to be too low. For me, those put me 1-2cm too high, because I prefer to pedal more "heels down" (due to all the walking I do delivering mail). Did you try the "heel on pedal" method?

I'm glad someone else has mentioned that because that is exactly what I thought. I have tried correcting my pedalling but I just can't 'not' pedal toes down. I know it's not ideal, but it doesnt cause me any problems and its what my body finds most comfortable so I have just stuck with it. But yes, I have often thought that because my heel is therefore 'higher up', the saddle height methods come out too low.

I agree with this also. I tend to spin quite fast. I have another experienced friend who was/(is) a very good time trialist. He is roughly the same height as me but has much more leg extension when he pedals. He does indeed tend to 'crank' a big gear with a much lower cadence.

It's an interesting point which I hadn't thought of before so thank you!

I've never had any real problem with the saddle fore/aft but was aware I sat quite far forward. I'll try moving it back. I too am not interested in 'aero' so don't mind playing around with handlebars/stems etc. I agree that saddle fore/aft should be determined before stem length. Interestingly, on my winter bike I have a long nose saddle which is set further back in a more 'neutral' position and I often feel like the bottom bracket is too far in front of me, so maybe it's just a personal thing.

I'll have a play and see what I think!

The only reason I asked was because I SOMETIMES feel like I can't quite get enough power out when climbing etc. and sometimes feel like I could extend a TINY bit more. I'm talking about raising the saddle by about 2mm here. But then I wonder whether I'll even notice that?



Useful - I will have a look at that.

That's reassuring to hear because I've never had any real discomfort so didn't want to muck around with it too much.



I will have a play around (having first marked where everything is currently) to see if I can get anything better. Thanks.

Your legs look like they are still quite bent at the bottom of your stroke. They should be straight, or very nearly so.

To quote Sheldon Brown on the topic: