Hi!

Ive been cycling on and off the past 6 years, except the last two. Been mostly riding bikes thats considered too small. Ive had a couple CAAD10s and a Giant TCR size L. Dident really like the Giant TCR, so I went back to a CAAD10 size 60. However, this summer I bought a Giant TCR size XL, and after 350km, I still hate it. It feels too stretched. Too much weight on my hands duo trying to fix the reach by moving the saddle forwards. Also feels like I dont get on top of the pedal if I move the seat back. The bike is stock except for the bars which ive swapped to Pro PLT ergo size 38 (40cm total width). My first thought was that duo to lack of fitness, I simply have to adapt to the bike, but im not so sure anymore.
Any last suggestions before I sell it for a smaller bike? I really loved the geo of the CAAD10 size 60.
My specs:
85kg
192.5cm
94cm inseam
197cm arm spa
Usual saddle height is 82cm

Sounds like you really ought to consider going to a good bike fitter. The issues you describe can be eliminated with proper fit measurements, then buying and/or adjusting a bike accordingly.

You don't look stretched out at all. But your position on that bike isn't the best.

Your biggest issue is probably your desire buy those race fit bikes when you don't really want a race fit. Or if you do, then you are going to have to do some work when you are off the bike to exercise your core muscles that get no exercise when you are on the bike. Glut bridges, pushups and other exercises for the shoulder girdle, glutes and lower back have done well to keep me comfortable in a much lower and aero position than what you are in the picture. It wasn't a big issue prior to retirement. As I was very active in all sorts of things. But retirement has me less active. So muscles need a good exercise program. I do recommend a gym membership. Though I get by doing my own thing. But it takes determination for some of us. And gyms sometimes can be a incentive to exercise.

If you do want a more upright position that your picture suggests, then look for road bike models that have a higher frame stack and are not considered race fit bikes.

I do want a race fit! I actually prefer to ride in the drops than on the hoods on this bike, because the reach feels more natural. I am otherwise pretty fit, I regularly workout, including core. I can easly do the take-hands-of-the-handlebars test without falling forwards. Just havent ridden a bike the past 2 years. So I thought it could be why I feel bad on the bike.Like I mentioned, ive usually ridden bikes that are considered too small, which have made me have more drop, but also less reach

Then perhaps you just haven't ridden enough and frequently enough. 3 times a week is minimum if you want to slowly get back into cycling shape.

You aren't in a aero position. You need to have more bend in your elbows. Which will put more acute angle on your hips. I have some issues at the first of my riding season staying comfortable when aero due to the beer belly I get over the holidays.

The other way to get more aero with about the same bend in your elbows as you have now will be to get a way longer stem and/or bars with more reach. And you'll still have to be more sharply angled at the hips. And then you'll really be stretched out. I'd actually suggest you get a size bigger bike if you want to go that way to be aero. Stretched way out is what I always was prior to getting my Tarmac. Keeping that large bend in the elbow has taken a lot of work for me to get use to.

Some discomfort might be from where you have the STI's. They might need be further up on bars. And or the bar might need to be rotated more to point toward your rear axle or lower. Different bars are different though. Looks like you have the rear of your palm on the hood and bars. Which isn't a good thing. IMO. Changing up that will probably make you less aero. But that can be solved by getting that bend in your elbows. Or really stretching you out. And taking some spacers out from under the stem.

On those short reach shallow drop bars, you should be pretty aero even when on the hoods. That's one of the reason I like the short reach shallow drop bars. They let you be aero when on the hoods. If you have everything else correct. And like the position.

Just for full disclosure. I'm not a fitter. However for all my life I've been able to make myself comfortable on any bike I've had. You can do the same if you just move things around and see what that does for you. However the first ride might feel odd. So you have to do many rides to really determine the effect. Only if things start going numb or are painful do you need to act immediately to change something back to where it feels okay.

If you don't have the patience to wait. Then find a fitter if there is one in your area. But realize you might have to go back a few times for tweaks. So find what they do for that. Some think the first fit they give you is the right fit, whether you like it or not.

I'm going to use resultant angles since I feel those are easier to understand.

A 148,6 degree knee angle gives our a resultant angle of 31,4 degrees (180-148,6=31,4). That's pretty steep. While the optimal knee angle for aerobic performance seems to be 25-35 degrees, there's also mobility to consider. In my experience if your seat is too high for your mobility, the first symptom is going to be feeling stretched out.

It's quite possible that an individual doesn't have the mobility to reach the optimal seat height range. That's ok, no harm no foul.
But there are also factors which contribute to mobility on the bike, two of the main ones being reach and drop from saddle to handlebar and the combination of the two. When you reach for the handlebars, you'll optimally begin the movement by rolling the pelvis forward. That will then stretch the back muscle chain, which will then reduce the amount of potential leg extension. The more you roll the pelvis forward, the less mobility you'll have for leg extension. If your back is straight up, you'll have a lot more leg extension mobility than when your torso is at 90 degrees (to make an emphasized point).
For example my road bike has more drop than my touring bike and to compensate I've had to set the seat 1cm lower than on the touring bike.

How does this relate to you? You have A LOT of saddle to bar drop. But you don't seem to have all that much reach. Your back is slightly rounded so the pelvis isn't rotated as much as your drop would optimally require. It could be due to multiple reasons but since we're guessing, I'd say it's either due to saddle shape (not being able to roll pelvis more forward) or the more likely option, lack of mobility.

Also if I do a quick calculation regarding your inseam and seat height using the current most optimal seat height formula (103 % inseam), assuming your cranks are 175mm, your seat should be around 2.5cm lower. Adjust accordingly if your cranks are a different length.

And then there's the heel on pedal method where you put your heel on the pedal and if you can pedal without any wobbling of the pelvis, you're pretty close to a correct seat height.

Suggestions:
Drop your seat height by 2.5cm and verify with the heel on pedal method. When you drop the seat by that much you'll need to move the seat back 1cm.
Since this is a pretty big drop in seat height, there is a good chance you'll feel like you're riding a children's bike when you do this, but give it some time. Don't raise it back up immediately. Getting used to adjustments takes time. One potential adjustment that'll take some time to manifest is ankle dynamics, ie. you'll rely less on ankle plantar flexion to compensate for too much seat height. Dropping the heel isn't a bad thing and I'd imagine it's more natural for taller riders to have more of a dropped heel pedaling style rather than dropped toes style. But I could be wrong about that. It is for me though (inseam 96.5cm)

If you're still feeling too stretched, flip the stem up. Getting lower is a marathon, not a sprint. You can't go lower than your mobility allows for. Also, drop any ego you might have about being able to go lower since you've done it before. Mobility changes over time. If you've spent less time on the bike due to fit issues, your mobility might be lower than it was and needs to be built up again.

If you're STILL feeling too stretched after all that, shorten the stem. Usually I'd recommend going shorter first but you don't look stretched.

Me too! Do you have long arms, as I do? They look a bit long in the photo.

I might experiment with lowering your bars. Quite often raising your bars is the answer but I believe that there are also cases where lowering them can also be the answer.

In addition to lowering your bars, focus on rotating your pelvis forward as much as possible while maintaining a neutral-ish spine. You look a little upright to me at the saddle.

This has the potential to move your shoulders forward in space and, thus, reduce the amount that your arms have to reach to the bars.

Ideally, I think that you want your bars low enough that your glutes start to pick up tension.

If you don't possess the flexibility to do this, you'll know in a hurry.

Yes, my armspan is 5 cm longer than my height. I will try lowering the bars! As I mentioned earlier, im used to having more drop, duo to riding frames considered too short by manufactureres size charts. So more exposed seatpost and more drop

Just three months ago I lowered my bars 10 mm more. It was because I was feeling a little too much of my weight on my hands. And it did help reduce that feeling of weight on my hands. However I fully expect that if I slack up on the exercise I do off the bike, that the core muscle groups that hold me cantilevered out past the saddle will just get weaker and then I'll start noticing the weight on my hands again.

Also, in your picture, it sort of looks like you are resting the rear center portion of your palm on the bar just behind the hood. That's never a good thing. At least not for me. It makes my hands numb fast if I do that. I only let the pad below my thumb rest on the hood and maybe a part of the bar behind the hood.

You have long arms and legs and a short-ish torso. Uncurling your back will get you an extra centimeter in reach. Think of what your PE teacher tried to teach you about good posture--open chest and extended spine--and adapt that to sitting on a bike. Then re-evaluate your stem. Start with lowering it. It's pushing your center of gravity into the back seat. Then, if you think you're still reaching too far forward, get a shorter one.

Looking at your picture - and skipping all the previous comments - I think you need to drop your elbows a little bit, maybe more. Possibly not to level.

Also a 60cm frame for reference. 1.86m, 1.91 wingspan, saddle height 78cm.


your hands are covering the shifters/bars so hard to tell if you have a flat ramp out to the hoods. that helps me.

Fit looks good to me, too. If you feel like there's too much weight on your hands, move your saddle back. Yes, you'll feel less able to stomp on the pedals, so don't stomp on the pedals. Get used to pedaling in a slightly different manner. Push forward at the top and pull back at the bottom. Smooth it up.

You should also straighten your back. With your saddle further back, you'd look more like one of these riders: Numb Hands - Bike Forums
Also see: Riding Position Discovery - Bike Forums and

if saddle comfort permits, roll your hips on the saddle rather than bending from the waist. This will help facilitate a flatter back when in a lower upper body position.

Split rail or deep center groove or with center cut-out = those saddles are all I ride now.

Slight update! I bought a Pro stealth 142 saddle, and dropped the handlebars to nearly slammed. Feels way better now. Less weight on hands, feel it more in my hamstrings too, oddly enough.

As is often stated - It is a process. Frequently driven by saddle changes. And other things as one progresses in fitness, or ages, or both.

Roll On smartly. with a smile.

Fitting online is always an iffy thing, because we're also so different in general physiology, strength, flexibility and our power output (how it's produced not the amount...)
A look at your numbers and your bike position/posture has me considering a couple things...
Saddle position is #1 when it comes to adapting a rider to their bike. The bike shown doesn;t seem to have a longish TT, so over-reach doesn't seem to be an issue.
with the numbers you give... inseam,span, saddle height (82cm, which I assume is center BB to saddle top along the ST...)
so your saddle height would seem in the ballpark for your inseam and general arm/leg/torso dims and relationship
So
I would also look at , first, your saddle setback...
saddle position is #1
I never use saddle nose to determine setback, especially now with the huge variations in saddle lengths.
I use the sitzbones point on the saddle - which is usually the center of the rear widening of the saddle which supports the bones... and then measure forward to where a plumb vertical line intersects the center of the BB - that's saddle setback...
so given your measurements I would prolly start with a 'setback' of 30cm . And going slightly back from that would not be unusual.
...pushing the saddle forward, to take weight off the hands, is often counterproductive.... having a more 'centered' saddle position (which for many seems 'back') actually allows the pedal power stroke to start earlier, more near the top of the pedal stroke. which also helps to counter the weight of the rider on the saddle...
When your cadence rpms are in what would be considered the general riding range (> 100) the power stroke becomes more even...
In conjunction with considering the saddle setback, I would also suggest adding a bit more elbow bend in your posture...
IE, I'm 176 cm , but have very long legs and arms, so my saddle setback is 29.3 cm, my inseam is 87 and saddle height is 77-78 cm, and I use 172.5 cranks (crank length is not a critical thing, I can ride 170 & 175...)
Very short torso like me usually have a very difficult time with 'reach', but I don't. because my saddle setup frees me up to have a light touch to the bars... I don't 'cave' onto the bars...

I also use a very pronounced elbow bend (except when I'm 'cooked', then the eblows straighten some and I have to think actively about maintaining a bend...)

As I remember TCRs did not have a long TT or reach, but did have a lower stack, more 'race' fit that what is called 'endurance' fit these days...
Ride On
Yuri
EDIT: I also don't carry much excessive mass in the torso, I'm 67 kg... You don;t seem to have a torso mass issue.
A 1cm change is quite a bit, so I always recommend making changes in small increments, >5mm, and then riding for a few days, before making another incremental change...