I want to make sure my thinking is sound...

My current bars, Cowbell 2 by salsa, have a 76mm reach... It does feel a bit far for my fingers to wrap around the DCLs when I'm in the drops.

So, I'm thinking of going with a Zipp Service Course C, a bar with 70mm reach. I think that'll address my hand wraparound comfort on the DLCs.

Now, I'm effectively shortening my reach by 6mm changing out the bars..I feel I can extend there a bit already, so in order to compensate going up 10mm (From 90mm to 100mm) with the stem is the way to go?

That'll net me +2~mm (with a 17 degree stem?) while getting my hands more comfort in terms of reach I'm thinking.

I'm trying to figure out rise as well...my bars will be up a little higher if I go with a -17 100mm stem? I was told that -17 = a 0 degree stem, meaning perpendicular to the head tube...I'm not quite sure how to translate this yet...I came across this drawing and I almost got it...I'm hazy on what -6 versus -17 stem angles will do:




Ok...I used an online calculator and I came up with this...

My current versus proposed config:

Stem Angle: 20.0° 37.0°
Difference: 17.0°
Stem Height: 59.0 mm 69.6 mm
Difference: +10.6 mm
Stem Reach: 74.3 mm 76.4 mm
Difference:+2.1 mm
Spacers: 30mm 10mm



This is if I go with a 17 degree 100mm stem and remove 20mm of spacers

DCLs? Whatever they are, I'm guessing you're talking about reach to the brake lever that's a stretch for your fingers, and in that case, altering the bar reach will not necessarily do anything for that, as the radius of the bend is the critical feature, not reach. Reach to the levers is a function, primarily, of the lever design. Altering positioning of the levers on the bar can help, and you should probably play with that if you haven't.

Another option is to see if the lever reach is adjustable, a feature which some Shimano levers offer, either through an internal adjustment or addition of a shim. This will move the lever rearward and closer to the bar.

Whether you need more reach to the bar is a separate issue, and one I'll leave alone for now since I don't think it's related and because I'm confused by the numbers you've got going there, anyway.

DCL = Dual Control Lever... Brake/Shifter... and yeah, you're right! Thanks...

I don't think you can shim Shimano 6800 levers, I'll have to check for an internal adjustment. I would like a little more reach, I'm feeling crowded in the drops and I'm bearing too much weight on my hands in that position.

Okay, but what about those funky "stem reach" numbers you came up with, 74.3 and 76.4? Obviously you know stem extension is almost exclusively in whole 10mm increments-- you noted you have a 100mm-- so what are you measuring to get those numbers?

I used an online calculator which accounts for stem angle, stack height, etc... so it's effective reach:


Bike Stem Calculator - Brightspoke

I currently have a 90mm. It looks like with a 100mm 17 degree stem I ought to be able to get a little more reach and eliminate some spacers because I'll effectively have the same height.

Oh, I gotcha...because you're looking at angle. Of course; sorry for my mental slip, there.

It's all good...

If I'm using the calculator correctly it seems that I could get rid of almost all my spacers and increase the stem reach by going with a 100mm @ 17.0°:


Stem Angle: 20.0° 37.0°
Difference: 17.0°
Stem Height: 59.0 mm 59.6 mm
Difference: +0.6 mm
Stem Reach: 74.3 mm 76.4 mm
Difference:+2.1 mm (-6mm = -4mmof effective reach)
Spacers: 30mm 10mm


But....by going with those handlebars I'm losing 6mm of reach at the bends...The Zipps have 70mm reach my current bars have 76mm...So, I'd actually lose 4mm of effective reach using a 100mm stem.

If I bump the stem up to 110mm @ 17.0° I get this:


Stem Angle: 20.0° 37.0°
Difference: 17.0°
Stem Height: 59.0 mm 75.6 mm
Difference: +16.6 mm
Stem Reach: 74.3 mm 84.4 mm
Difference:+10.1 mm (-6mm = +4mm of effective reach...)
Spacers: 30mm 10mm


and I'd gain 4mm reach...


I'm going to call Zipp...Ha!

Ok...Zipp said my calcs are spot on...

there are bends of tops of bars with quite short ramps , these days ,

since the Lever bodies got longer to get all that shifting mech in them

you already got Compact Bars?

Dimensionally the bars I bought are even more compact...I have Cowbell 2 at the moment. I went with a Zipp cockpit...their SSR bar, and my fitter told me to get a 6 degree 100mm stem...between those, my new seatpost with 20mm setback (versus 16mm) I should be able to fine tune things....Overall the change I'm making is subtle but reflective of the fact that I'm in the drops for 60% of my riding since I've been fit.

A -17° stem is very close to level, depending on head tube angle. A 0° is perpendicular. Many people run 6-7° stems and angle them up or down (flipped). I run slammed -17° stems because I have short legs and my head tubes are already a bit too long. A +17° stem looks like something for an MTB. Same stem, just upside down. I think your reasoning is sound. I have to experiment with stems to get one that feels right with new bars or new stem angle on a bike. I buy cheapie forged stems to start with, maybe trade up, maybe not.

A great tool for visualising:

Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net



I've narrowed down to a 10 degree 110mm stem... that pretty much will preserve the ratio between stack height and reach that I already have... Thomson X4

If you put in my numbers you can see that...

I'll gain about 8 mm reach, and I'll lose 18mm in spacers, I just received the new handlebars and the gap between the levers and hooks is closer...which is what I wanted..

With the longer stem I'm hoping my steering will be less twitchy as well...

I'm pretty psyched about the new cockpit...

Why haven't I seen it mentioned yet that to consider new bars based on a 6mm discrepancy from ideal is money and time wasted? It is. I changed from Dimension bars with a 100mm reach, to Civia Emerson's with an 80mm reach and consider it money well spent. One could probably move their seat forward (its likely too far back anyway, most are) and get the wanted 6mm! Or you could get Tektro levers for small hands, or you could HTFU (I can say that right?) and/or do Yoga or something to increase your flexibility on the bike. Buying new components, however is not likely to produce any real benefit. Except to the economy. FWIW.

H

Anecdotal effluvia. Besides, you didn't pay attention, but hey! Thanks for the enlightenment.

What are your numbers actually? The numbers you posted from Brightspoke calculator are all over the place (20 degree vs. 37 degree?). Trying to interpret the dimensions of the stems you gave so they make any sort of sense, going from a -17 degree 90mm stem to a -10 degree 110mm stem and removing 18mm of spacers you will have a gain of 25mm in reach and lose 3mm in stack.

Sorry...it's evolved.

HT angle is 70 degrees...

To begin...I had handlebars with 76mm reach. I've wanted to swap them out with bars where due to the radii of the hook they actually end up closer to the paddles. I went with the Zipp SSR bar...that has a 70mm reach. It's easier to wraparound the levers now...

I also want to be able to stretch a bit more when in the drops, not much....so:

I've went from a 90mm, 0 degree stem with 30mm spacers to a 110mm stem with 10 degrees of rise and 12mm of spacers.

I've also incorporated a seatpost with 20mm setback versus the 16mm I have...Carbon for comfort reasons.

This tool is pretty good: https://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

Didn't you say you had a 17 degree stem? Anyway, with the new numbers you provided, you are still gaining 17-6mm in reach with the new stem...

Why are you changing saddle setback?

I had decided against the 17 degree stem... New one is 10 degrees.

I want my weight distribution more towards the rear when in the drops, currently I've been scooting back quite a bit on the saddle. I want better shock absorption than the aluminum post I have at the moment as well. This is an optional change at the moment though.