Folder Suggestion
 

I sold all two of my folders a couple years ago (yeah, I know, big mistake, but I had to pay the bills that were due).
Anyway, I'm sure things have changed since I was last here,
I'm looking for an inexpensive 16 inch wheel folder that I can toss into a side box of my truck. The 'TANK MINI 16' I had would be perfect, but, I cannot find another one.
Who makes a good sub $200 folder (as much "sub $200" as possible) with 16 inch wheels? Or, is such a critter a myth these days?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT:

Is the Citizen Bikes "TOKYO" model any good?

Most people are not too excited about that bike. It seems really low end.

Thanks,
Yan

I agree, the citizen Tokyo isn't a highly rated bike. A Dahon Curve, or (my personal favorite) the 8 Speed Downtube Mini would be much better options.

In this case, you truly do get what you pay for.

I don't have the Tokyo but I do have the larger wheeled steel framed Miami and can tell you that the frame is solid and a decent bike overall. There are corners that are cut to make it so affordable but in general it's proven to be a reliable bike, well worth $200.

Incidentally the Tokyo's 16" wheels are 305, not 349 like the 16" wheels fitted to a bike like the Brompton.

I've had some experience with the Citizen Tokyo. That model fits your budget.
Not sure of it's long term reliability/performance. Only had mine for a few months.

My first encounter w/ Tokyo's was when I visited my brother in California; he has
3 of them for the use of his big family. Borrowed one and taught it was okay for
what it cost. Even did some off road riding with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUUC...6zPoymgKaIoDLA

On one overseas trip; Jetblue wouldn't let me check in my Brompton in a cardboard box.
Bought a used Tokyo and squeezed it in my luggage. Rode it around for a few days and
the bike was okay. Sold it afterwards since I was moving and didn't have room for a 3rd bike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR2T...6zPoymgKaIoDLA
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2826/...56e235a6_z.jpg2013 Citizen Tokyo in a suitcase by 1nterceptor, on Flickr

You cannot expect much from a sub $200 bike in 2015, even less In a Folding bike .

at that price PRC is who makes them and the QC , being a cost to cut, may be overly tolerant of Poor fits and workmanship.

I love my Tokyo and have taken it on several 50+ mile jaunts since I got it with the only upgrades/tweaks being a side mirror, bottle holder I had from a past bike, and a pair of Schwalbes. The gearing is low and I mean low. First gear will get you up the steepest incline you can think of while sitting down. The 6th gear will max you out at roughly 15-18mph while pushing a decent cadence. It is a cruiser, not a racer. The fold is reasonably small and the hinge seems to be tight and easy to adjust if it ever loosens. That said it feels very solid with no detectible flexing. The bike is a little on the heavy side, but it is managable.

For rider size reference I am 5'9" and 125lbs.

http://i.imgur.com/ihFb29P.png

I don't own a Tokyo but from what I have read in some of the reviews, the folks at Citizen actually tune the bikes they sell before shipping them out to their customers. That means that the shifter and the brakes are adjusted properly, and the bearings roll freely so that there is no binding. If that means anything to you, then it is a bike you should consider, and it is within your price range.

I actually own a 16" folder that is similar to the Tokyo called the Swift. See avatar. Not to be confused with the Xootr Swift. I think the Tokyo is superior to my bike.

Gears are always an issue on 16" wheel bikes. The gearing on a Tokyo is 23.1-46.1 gear inches, in the top gear at 80rpm ( a normal cadence ) you will go 11mph. Please check these figures at Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator

Thanks,
Yan

Ed,

Every factory tunes bikes during assembly. I estimate 85% of our bikes do not need any brake adjustment, and 30% don't need rear derailleur adjustment ( the rear derailleur is more sensitive to cable stretch ). I do not believe Citizen has facilities in the USA to tune anything.

I think most issues with Citizen are derived from using a low end factory, I used a low end factory in 2003 and we switched to a high end facility within a year.

Thanks,
Yan

When you say truck do you mean big truck? I carried along a folder when I was trucking, but mine was a 20" - I did not carry it in a side box, but it lived in front of the passenger seat in the cab of the truck. That cheap little singe speed big box folder was one of the main things that got me back into bicycles after so many years of being distracted by motorcycles - and it saved my sanity a couple of weekends when my dispatch stranded me far from home for the weekend.

Point is, if you can find room for it, opening your search to include 20" folders gives you more options, as well as making the gearing choices less critical to get some top speed out of the bike.

Unless things have improved over the last few years since I last wrenched at a bike shop the overwhelming majority of new bikes coming from 'the factory' (my more recent experiences having been with Trek, KHS, Bianchi, Marin, Jamis, Masi, Breezer, Colnago, Fuji, Mercier, Dawes, Motobecane, Windsor and Specialized) were not tuned at all. If non-cartridge bearings were fitted to the bike then they almost always were over torqued.

I can say all our bikes are tuned ( set up ) at the factory. Honestly, I was not so sure about the front brakes on big wheeled bikes, since they are not normally installed in the production line. I would agree that non sealed BB's are a risk during assembly.

Thanks,
Yan

I got to agree... if you can move up to 20" wheels, you're probably more likely to find something really rideable in your price range.

I think a Brompton is probably the best riding and most compact 16" wheeled folding bike, but it sure isn't sub-$200, even if used...

I was a shop rat at my LBS for years. After awhile, I noticed they were bringing out the Park DAG-2 rear derailleur hanger alignment tool on every new frame right out of the box. I watched one after another that every single one was misaligned, didn't matter what company or cost - everything from a cheap mountain bike to a $5K Specialized road bike. A DAG-2 is the first tool I use on any indexed system frame after seeing this, because if the alignment is screwed up, the shifting probably is too. I'd be curious if BassNotBass saw the same thing.

bargainguy,

How long ago was this?

Thanks,
Yan

I got my bike mechanic certification in '09, and I was a shop rat for 5 yr. before that, so what, '04? I still stop in at the shop regularly - friends with the owner - and they're still aligning every RD hanger; nothing has changed in that respect.

Now keep in mind this is only bikes being sold through the typical independent dealer channels. Not implying your bikes are misaligned because I have no experience with them.

It's a funny thing, tho. When I first picked up on their RD hanger alignment, I got curious and asked what other maladies brand new bikes have. Wheels out of true was the second biggest complaint. Overtightened everything was number three.

Hi Dr.Yan,

What I was referring to about the bike tuning that Citizenbike does before shipping a bike to a customer is the fact that a bike mechanic goes over the bike to make sure it is properly adjusted for the new owner. This is not my personal experience as I stated in my previous post that I do not own any of their products. I am going by what an actual Citizenbike owner said on a review. They also install any components added to the order such as upgraded seats or rear cargo racks before shipment.

I believe you when you say that the factory does do a tune up upon assembly but a bike mechanic from a local bike shop told me one time that adjustments still have to be made to most bikes that arrive at the shop since these adjustments can "drift" during shipment or because of environmental differences between the point of origin and final destination, etc.

Lastly, I reiterate that I don't own any of Citizenbike's products but the general consensus is that they are good quality products within their price points. They're obviously for a different market than most of the higher end products talked about here on the forum.

Regards

I can guarantee the hangers are straight when they leave the factory, they get bent in shipping. We also had that issue many years ago. We made a few minor changes, the rear of the bike has extra padding and I have very few hanger issues. I upgraded the wheels around 2009 and that removed almost all the true problems. Over tightening is always an issue, I was given a logical explination on this by a friend. He said that most end customers never adjust anything, hence over tightening is better....since after it loosens with normal wear it will not be too loose.

Thanks,
Yan

Installing racks and minor components is easy on a packed folding bike. Unpacking a bike is easy, adjusting it is easy. However repacking with a high level of protection is not easy.

Citizen does alot of funny PR stuff, I do not believe they do any tuning in the states ( because that would require unpacking and repacking ). They have been selling very low end bikes for a while. Gearing is always funky, and component choices are dubious.

Thanks,
Yan

We didn't check the alignment on every frame, only as a diagnostic step on the bikes that wouldn't shift cleanly. Not to say that most were perfect but they were at least good enough to function as intended first on the stand and then on the test ride.

Alright Dr. Yan, if you say so. I am gracefully bowing out of this discussion.

Regards,
Edward

The explanation is BS and there is false logic in it... it's just a poor attempt at justifying the choice of cutting corners and saving time. Tightening fasteners to the appropriate torque is the way it should be done because that doesn't stress the threads nor will they loosen. When it comes to bearings, adjusting them properly, not over tightening, is the professional way it's done. When bearings are over tightened of course they'll eventually loosen, after the rider wastes energy overcoming the drag, because the mating surfaces become pitted and irregularly worn and the whole bearing is prematurely damaged.

But they function as intended and as I've mentioned before mine is still going after 3 years.

Maybe you should visit some factories and tell them how it needs to be done. I have used hubs from multiple manufacturers over the years and a solid majority are over tightened at the hub factory.

Thanks,
Yan

Then you should deal with reputable hub manufacturers.