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Helix Update?

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Old 02-09-19, 10:32 AM
  #1551  
LannyPots
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Latest Update

Latest update is that the first bikes are out the door to backers...
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Old 02-09-19, 11:03 AM
  #1552  
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Brunhilde steps forth, takes a deep breath and begins her final song. The first handful of bike have apparently shipped! What a saga it has been. Looking forward to the first user reviews and, in due course, my first ride.
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Old 02-09-19, 11:11 AM
  #1553  
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Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post
How would ETRO 507 wheels be not standard components? ETRO 507 IS a standard... Just because you probably do not get them in the supermarket around the corner? Then there is a problem: If you consider everything that is not identical to all the other bikes around to be "non standard" (and thus a downside) but on the other hand want a bike that massively differs from all the other bikes around in terms that it should i.e. be lighter and have bigger wheels and still fold very compact but at the same time is identical to all the other bikes around you end up in a catch 22....
If you consider any ETRTO size to be standard, then yes ETRTO 507 is a standard component.

But if you look at the amount of road bikes using ETRTO 507 wheels, then its not (there is ETRTO 520 for junior or woman road bikes).

And ETRTO 507 40mm wide or less tires aren't standard at all.

Having several bikes with ETRTO 406 wheels and having used an ETRTO 520 wheeled bike, I am absolutely not convinced of the benefit of using ETRTO 507 wheels.
The only thing I am sure is that it drastically reduces the choice of tires (and tires a crucial for the bike performances, the same problem exists for the Brompton, no high end high performances folding tires unless the Schwalbe One presented on the 2019 CHPT3 become available as spare parts), it makes the bike bigger (an Helix with ETRTO 406 wheels would be smaller) and it increases the weight (an Helix with ETRTO 406 wheels would weight less).

In your list of Brompton improvements, you forgot that the wheelbase of the Brompton was increased what changed the behavior of the bike.
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Old 02-09-19, 11:36 AM
  #1554  
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Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
If you consider any ETRTO size to be standard, then yes ETRTO 507 is a standard component..
ETRO is a standard like ISO. Thus per definition any tire of any ETRO size is a standard tire, though it may be more or less common... If Peter had defined a special, new tire size for the Helix than we would talk about a non standard tire. Luckily he did not do that.

Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
The only thing I am sure is that it drastically reduces the choice of tires (and tires a crucial for the bike performances, the same problem exists for the Brompton, no high end high performances folding tires unless the Schwalbe One presented on the 2019 CHPT3 become available as spare parts),
Over all the years that I've been riding a Brompton I never missed a bigger choice of tires. This may be because on any given bike I only use two tires at a time and those are usually the same model. Therefor I personally cannot agree to the often heard lamenting about not enough tire choice for Bromptons. Most of the time it seems to origin from people that do not own a Brompton btw.... There are in fact roughly about 15-20 different tire models available for the Brompton. I consider this to be sufficient.

Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
it makes the bike bigger (an Helix with ETRTO 406 wheels would be smaller) and it increases the weight (an Helix with ETRTO 406 wheels would weight less).
Too bad that the whole idea of the Helix is about bigger wheels than the common 406 - that makes one of it' USPs and part of the attractiveness for a lot of people as far as I can judge. I own btw. a folder with 507 wheels and while there is not a immense choice of tires fitting my taste there clearly is a sufficient choice. How many tires would you need? Furthermore I would clearly say that there is a difference between 406 and 507 wheeled bikes, so if you prefer a more grown-up ride, closer to "usual" bikes, the 507 shows it's advantages.

Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
In your list of Brompton improvements, you forgot that the wheelbase of the Brompton was increased what changed the behavior of the bike.
The longer wheelbase was just a result of the new folding hinge with it's semiautomated welding process, not a feature on it's own. Therefor I left it out, even more as I do not consider the older, shorter wheelbase a bug that needed to be removed. I could not recognize a change in behavior between the two versions. Obviously YMMV.
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Old 02-09-19, 12:12 PM
  #1555  
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Brompton detour

I was given a ' look out for' on used Mk 2 bikes, which butt fillet brazed the hinges on the frame and bar mast tubes..

the underside of the main frame tube hinge ... is the place to check.. for any separations .. over time ..





I had a saddle adapter pin , pointed back on my Mk2 for a bit more space, don't need it on the newer bike..





.....

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Old 02-09-19, 12:26 PM
  #1556  
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Berlinonaut, let it go. None of us, at present, know whether this bike is any good or not, nor whether it will sell in the numbers to keep the company in business. You also have to remember that many, including myself, have no need of another folding bike, the one (s) we have are more than adequate.

So, the Helix is a brave attempt. I trust it will do well. There is one thing I would say, however, is that if is a success, I stongly doubt production will remain in Canada, nor that the company will remain independent.
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Old 02-09-19, 12:30 PM
  #1557  
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The fact that a size is defined as a standard, doesn't mean that there are components available.

If you have a bike with ETRTO 507 wheels and have a wide choice of tires, it means that that bike was well designed to accept the usual ETRTO 507 50mm or wider tires.

The problem with Helix is that Helix doesn't accept (to be confirmed when there will be some Helix delivered) up to 40mm wide tires and that there are very few models available (seems only one remaining).

Yes, I own a Brompton and doesn't like the heavy, cheap Schwalbe Marathon, Marathon Racer, Marathon Plus tires nor the fragile, slow Kojak. What is missing is high performances lightweight folding tires like the Marathon Supreme, Marathon Mondial, Pro-one or Continental Grand Prix.

ETRTO 507 wheels on a folder isn't a unique selling proposition, there are for instance Tern folding with ETRTO 507 wheels.

Now, who would like to have a unique selling proposition that doens't bring any benefit or is a drawback ? And actually, this is exactly what ETRTO 507 wheels is: no benefit, only drawbacks !

For the increase of wheel base of the Brompton, your comments means that you never rode a small wheelbase and a large wheelbase Brompton, if you did, you would know the benefit of the increased wheelbase.
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Old 02-09-19, 12:43 PM
  #1558  
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Originally Posted by LannyPots View Post
Latest update is that the first bikes are out the door to backers...
That was actually several updates.
Dang....we'll have test ride reports here soon!

I noticed one change to the website....
The weights have increased by about a pound & a half.
My 10 speed is now 24.4 lbs.
I can live with this.

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Old 02-09-19, 01:38 PM
  #1559  
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We need actual pics of actual bikes. I'll plotz!
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Old 02-09-19, 02:06 PM
  #1560  
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Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
For the increase of wheel base of the Brompton, your comments means that you never rode a small wheelbase and a large wheelbase Brompton, if you did, you would know the benefit of the increased wheelbase.
Interesting what you claim to know about me. Where do you get your knowledge from? In reality I even own both versions... And obviously I ride and rode both.
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Old 02-09-19, 02:14 PM
  #1561  
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Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
The problem with Helix is that Helix doesn't accept (to be confirmed when there will be some Helix delivered) up to 40mm wide tires and that there are very few models available (seems only one remaining).
That was a known before the campaign ended and still roughly 1000 people supported the bike on kickstarter plus an unknown number did preorders. So I'd assume you issue is not much of an issue for them. If it is an issue for you the Helix just is not your bike - pretty easy...

Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
Yes, I own a Brompton and doesn't like the heavy, cheap Schwalbe Marathon, Marathon Racer, Marathon Plus tires nor the fragile, slow Kojak. What is missing is high performances lightweight folding tires like the Marathon Supreme, Marathon Mondial, Pro-one or Continental Grand Prix.
Maybe you should look outside the Schwalbe brand... There is i.e. the Strozzapreti. Nevertheless the Brompton was designed as a city- and commuter bike. Which means your demand is a bit outside the mainstream. If the Brompton does not fulfil you needs it is not your bike. Pretty simple.

Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
And actually, this is exactly what ETRTO 507 wheels is: no benefit, only drawbacks !
Just because you don't see an advantage does not mean there is none. i do see some, as outlined before.
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Old 02-09-19, 02:16 PM
  #1562  
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One of the potential problems of size for big people of the Helix is B) Effective top tube length: 590 mm Hopefully, this has changed since the Kickstarter campaign)


If you compare with the Brompton (M: 670, S: 700, P: 715), you see that it is much smaller and could be too short for big people, same problem than on the excellent Tyrell bikes that only fit for small people 9normal, it was made for the Japanese market).
The reason of this is a one piece frame made short to reduce the folded size, If you look how other folders (Birdy, Ori) solved this, they use a forward tilted stem.


For the Brompton tires, yes I know the Josef Kuosac Strozzapreti. , it is very fragile. But there will be Schwalbe One on the 2019 CHPT3 maybe Brompton will sell them as spare parts ?

Last edited by Jipe; 02-09-19 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 02-09-19, 03:08 PM
  #1563  
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Originally Posted by LannyPots View Post
Latest update is that the first bikes are out the door to backers...
That's definitively exciting! Let's hope someone of the early receivers is an internet addict and posts a review somewhere soon!
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Old 02-09-19, 04:18 PM
  #1564  
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Well, there goes my $20, bet lost. Congratulations to all the backers. I hope it is everything you dreamed it would be and more.
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Old 02-09-19, 04:46 PM
  #1565  
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Originally Posted by Jipe View Post
One of the potential problems of size for big people of the Helix is B) Effective top tube length: 590 mm Hopefully, this has changed since the Kickstarter campaign)


If you compare with the Brompton (M: 670, S: 700, P: 715), you see that it is much smaller and could be too short for big people, same problem than on the excellent Tyrell bikes that only fit for small people 9normal, it was made for the Japanese market).
The reason of this is a one piece frame made short to reduce the folded size, If you look how other folders (Birdy, Ori) solved this, they use a forward tilted stem.
Wouldn't the stem length (50mm standard on
the Helix) achieve the same thing as tilted stem?
See "Rider Compartment".....
https://www.bikecad.ca/taxonomy/term/25?page=2
And a longer stem could be substituted.

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Old 02-09-19, 05:14 PM
  #1566  
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Ooooo,...please, start a new Helix thread when you all receive your bikes!!! Congratulations!!!
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Old 02-09-19, 06:17 PM
  #1567  
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Damn! Finally

I suspect that the first shipment to backers was not more than a handful of bikes, but hopefully now they are past that hurdle they can ramp up and get bikes to many more of us. Wish I'd bought out a backer, because I'm going to be waiting a long time for my bike, while people like GibsonSean will get theirs much sooner. At least I can see pics and read reviews :/

Actually, I had a dream I received my Helix last night, but it was in tiny pieces and had a manual showing how to assemble, but it was too small to read. I also dreamt that I left my other bike on a station platform and it was stolen (I always have weird dreams about my bikes getting nicked, if a bicycle appears in my dream, it WILL be stolen by the end of the dream).
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Old 02-10-19, 12:38 AM
  #1568  
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And so it begins... I hope the reviews are good, but a small part of me hopes that the reviews are mixed so that we can enjoy some more drama.
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Old 02-10-19, 02:41 AM
  #1569  
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Perhaps we should have a new thread for the new saga of Heilx in the wild?
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Old 02-10-19, 03:09 AM
  #1570  
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Seems a bit premature at the moment.

Last edited by avole; 02-10-19 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 02-10-19, 11:09 AM
  #1571  
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Originally Posted by Gibsonsean View Post
Perhaps we should have a new thread for the new saga of Heilx in the wild?
Please encourage one of your fellow backers who are receiving their bikes over the next week or so to post about it here. Or to funnel their thoughts (and pics) to you so you can post it for them.
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Old 02-10-19, 11:42 AM
  #1572  
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Originally Posted by Lalato View Post
Please encourage one of your fellow backers who are receiving their bikes over the next week or so to post about it here. Or to funnel their thoughts (and pics) to you so you can post it for them.
I have asked. Earliest backer on the forum who regularly post that i am aware of is 10 or so.
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Old 02-10-19, 11:33 PM
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I just SCANNED through my email with weekly update from this thread. Did not read it all.

A few comments as a backer that is somewhat active in the Helix supporter forum. Here are my opinions - just that - opinions:

1. Peter's clarity of vision is what gave me assurance that this project will be completed so I invested in multiples.
2. Peter is setting a new paradigm for bike manufacturing and value proposition. He is a visionary. But a visionary that actually could execute. The complexity of the project is far far beyond what I (any probably anyone else including Peter and team) ever imagined. But it worked. You have to be privy to the supporter forum to grasp a bit of the complexity.
3. I believe that the Helix will put a lot of pressure on other high end manufacturers such as the Brompton mentioned in these threads. It really is a fresh paradigm.
4. His perfectionism did delay the bike, but was welcome by some including myself. I am unlikely to repurchase it in the future if the first iteration worked poorly.
5. Now that the first ones are shipping, clearly the vision is coming into being so all the naysayers, reasoned though some may be, are happily (presumably) proven wrong. This is good for all - supporters and naysayers as it elevates the industry. (Looking forward to his electric drive when it comes to fruition.)
6. Durability should be excellent - it is actually overbuilt and the later bikes will eventually be a bit lighter. Peter sent just one sample (instead of multiples as of parts as is customary) of each part to be stress tested to industry standards far beyond the norm.
7. The decision to keep the Helix 'forum' private to supporters is probably a wise one - there're already an incredible amount of chatter there. If it was open to public, the static could have been completely unmanageable. Support has it privileges....
8. I think this is already one of the better success story of Kickstarter and in time, may prove to be one of the best successes of Kickstarter. It is not often that one has the opportunity to redefine what is possible in a long/well established industry. Looking forward to the documentary some day....
9. I did wonder publicly if Peter's forum short snippets revealed a lot to his competitors who may seek to emulate his approach - perhaps, but apparently one of his secret is finding people who are top in their field to be on the team. Great people are hard to find.
10. There's a certainly humility and strength of character about Peter (and his wife I'm sure) as I read his updates. He has been wonderfully unruffled by some strong words sent his direction.

The above just the top of my head. I don't really follow this forum much anymore since I ordered the Helices () as I found my lifetime bikes so if you send me queries, I may not see them. .

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Old 02-10-19, 11:43 PM
  #1574  
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Bikes sent

The official picture shows the three founders standing by five folded bikes, to be sent to the USA and two more remote places. The USA orders are likely to be there soon. (But I have to wait till July...)
the folded bikes look good. Now waiting to hear about the riding experience and durability. (They say they subjected the test bike to twice the required degree of stress.)
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Old 02-10-19, 11:47 PM
  #1575  
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Originally Posted by Lalato View Post
And so it begins... I hope the reviews are good, but a small part of me hopes that the reviews are mixed so that we can enjoy some more drama.
Ha. That's just cruel. I've avoided this thread for almost year because of all the past ridiculous vitriol spewed. It was a Kickstarter campaign: you pay your money, you take your chances. You're buying into someone else's vision after all, with the presumption that it fits your vision too.

Here's hoping it all works out... but if you want drama... I'm sure there be lots of naval gazing about for... accessories... ha! Gotta have that perfect bag, yes?
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