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Old 09-19-17, 02:18 AM   #1
badmother
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About Titanium

I learned a lot from here:

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Old 09-19-17, 09:31 AM   #2
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.. Except, the carbon foot print has to include how the electricity is generated , and refining Ti takes a lot of power.




....
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Old 09-19-17, 12:54 PM   #3
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My central titanium experience:

At some point when you got glasses at an optician the only metal choice for frames started to be titanium. Naively thinking that those who provide the frames know what they were doing I ended up with a titanium frame. That frame could not hold shape whatsoever. It constantly was going out of shape and I had to readjust it time and time again. The reason was simple. Titanium is a more feeble material than steel, so to give it the same strength you would need to make the frame thicker that would apparently not look elegant and it would eliminate much of the weight advantage. Well eventually my frame broke due to the constant readjustment. At this point I was in Japan. No problem, I thought, as the detective work revealed that the frame was manufactured in Japan. At a local optician in Japan they said that nobody is going to touch it. I have to send the frame to the US to my optician. Then the optician will send it to the manufacturer in Japan for repair. Then they will send it back to my optician in the US and he will send it back to me in Japan

The last time I cracked a steel frame, it got repaired while I was waiting for half an hour and it was at an optician in France during a weekend. Heck, when pressed I will solder a steel glass frame - it won't be pretty but it will work. Now when I need a new glass frame I demand stainless steel causing a stir at an optician. I usually have to wait a month or so for them to get one I want. I.e. they usually have a few in stock but there is not much choice there.

With the frame experience I stay as far away from titanium as possible. One niche place where I use it are bottom bracket spindles where you basically replace one bulk material by another.
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Old 09-19-17, 02:38 PM   #4
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.. Except, the carbon foot print has to include how the electricity is generated , and refining Ti takes a lot of power.

....
You guys need to stop burning coal to produce electricity and you`ll be fine
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Old 09-19-17, 03:46 PM   #5
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Russia was where they bought all that Ti, For the SR 71, which was used to flew over the Russian airspace.. taking pictures..

One Ti frame builder is in Tennessee, Home of the Oak Ridge Nuclear plant..
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Old 09-19-17, 05:36 PM   #6
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My central titanium experience:

At some point when you got glasses at an optician the only metal choice for frames started to be titanium. Naively thinking that those who provide the frames know what they were doing I ended up with a titanium frame. That frame could not hold shape whatsoever. It constantly was going out of shape and I had to readjust it time and time again. The reason was simple. Titanium is a more feeble material than steel, so to give it the same strength you would need to make the frame thicker that would apparently not look elegant and it would eliminate much of the weight advantage. Well eventually my frame broke due to the constant readjustment. At this point I was in Japan. No problem, I thought, as the detective work revealed that the frame was manufactured in Japan. At a local optician in Japan they said that nobody is going to touch it. I have to send the frame to the US to my optician. Then the optician will send it to the manufacturer in Japan for repair. Then they will send it back to my optician in the US and he will send it back to me in Japan

The last time I cracked a steel frame, it got repaired while I was waiting for half an hour and it was at an optician in France during a weekend. Heck, when pressed I will solder a steel glass frame - it won't be pretty but it will work. Now when I need a new glass frame I demand stainless steel causing a stir at an optician. I usually have to wait a month or so for them to get one I want. I.e. they usually have a few in stock but there is not much choice there.

With the frame experience I stay as far away from titanium as possible. One niche place where I use it are bottom bracket spindles where you basically replace one bulk material by another.
Same as with aluminium versus steel. I guess it is about using the right material for the right purpose, not just using it becouse it "must" be better becouse it is what they are trying to sell us at the moment...

I asked my son if he is happy with his titanium framed glasses and he is super happy with them (2 yrs so far). Maybe you are doing something to yours?

I find Titanium interesting for many purposes but I can never understand why I should ditch super light plastic/nylon parts on my B and replace them with Titanium
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Old 09-19-17, 07:03 PM   #7
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Something on the welding bit. Welding looks like soldering to me but with more heat . Plus the argon gas thing.


This one is for the Brompton superlight.

Besides the Helix, are there any other current bikes built using titanium?

Or most of the higher end bikes are shifting to carbon fibre due to cost and fabrication issues?
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Old 09-19-17, 11:36 PM   #8
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Same as with aluminium versus steel. I guess it is about using the right material for the right purpose, not just using it becouse it "must" be better becouse it is what they are trying to sell us at the moment...

I asked my son if he is happy with his titanium framed glasses and he is super happy with them (2 yrs so far). Maybe you are doing something to yours?

I find Titanium interesting for many purposes but I can never understand why I should ditch super light plastic/nylon parts on my B and replace them with Titanium
You have to replace with titanium because superlight plastic/nylon isn't cool. I don't make the rules!
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Old 09-20-17, 03:15 AM   #9
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I bought a set of Oakley Juliet titanium sunglasses in the late 90's, and have been wearing them ever since. I have sat on them, stepped on them. and crashed on them (the glasses were compressed between my chest and the pavement, and broke two of my ribs). But the glasses refuse to break. Once every few years I send them back to Oakley to get them refinished. I got them new, at dealer cost for some $180, and it was one of the better investments I have made.
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Old 09-20-17, 09:20 AM   #10
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I bought a set of Oakley Juliet titanium sunglasses in the late 90's, and have been wearing them ever since. I have sat on them, stepped on them. and crashed on them (the glasses were compressed between my chest and the pavement, and broke two of my ribs). But the glasses refuse to break. Once every few years I send them back to Oakley to get them refinished. I got them new, at dealer cost for some $180, and it was one of the better investments I have made.
My glasses are optical, so I suppose they are used more intensely. I have to take a better care of them as I highly depend on them - cannot part with them to send them to nowhere and cannot treat them with hazard hoping that they will survive anyway and then say: look a miracle. Yet if an emergency arose I can get them fixed at the spot. In the end I am fully aware that vast majority of US customers in the area of metal optical frames wear titanium and are happy with them. After the stunning lesson I had, though, it would have been highly irresponsible of me (less PC adjectives could be put here) to put such a failure point in my system for no perceivable gain, in fact loss. A minor incident in my case turned into a major disaster - fortunately my trip at the time was winding down so most loss was financial - I had to get new glasses at 2x I would have paid at home + alter personal plans to get the glasses done + weigh on the neck of my hosts to help me.
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Old 09-20-17, 10:16 AM   #11
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I'm fortunate enough to have three (non-folding) road bikes from Independent Fabrication. Two are steel and the third is ti.

Although I could live happily with any one of them, they are different flavors, for lack of a better term.

The ti bike is interesting in one respect. When I ride over exposed aggregate and experience the chatter that transmits up through the frame, it's much more muted on the ti than on the steel bikes. It's almost as if it's vibrating at a different frequency, higher in the spectrum and less intrusive than on the steel bikes. On the steel bikes, that chatter is more of a rumble, lower in frequency and much easier to feel (and be disconcerted by). On a smooth road, much easier to experience that "smooth as glass" feeling when riding the ti, almost as if you're floating along.

So if I'm biking on less than smooth road surfaces, the ti bike is preferred. Oh - and it weighs a couple pounds less than either of its steel stablemates.
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Old 09-20-17, 11:10 AM   #12
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You have to replace with titanium because superlight plastic/nylon isn't cool. I don't make the rules!
I know, but I am too old to be cool... the Ti on my B is hidden, like some of the bulky heavu steel bolts. I have decided to make my B cool by making it a 5x2 instead
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Old 09-21-17, 01:24 PM   #13
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My glasses are optical, so I suppose they are used more intensely. I have to take a better care of them as I highly depend on them - cannot part with them to send them to nowhere and cannot treat them with hazard hoping that they will survive anyway and then say: look a miracle. Yet if an emergency arose I can get them fixed at the spot. In the end I am fully aware that vast majority of US customers in the area of metal optical frames wear titanium and are happy with them. After the stunning lesson I had, though, it would have been highly irresponsible of me (less PC adjectives could be put here) to put such a failure point in my system for no perceivable gain, in fact loss. A minor incident in my case turned into a major disaster - fortunately my trip at the time was winding down so most loss was financial - I had to get new glasses at 2x I would have paid at home + alter personal plans to get the glasses done + weigh on the neck of my hosts to help me.
Not having a spare pair of glasses with you at all times when you are dependent on them is not what i would do.

When most people can get a second pair of glasses for $100-200 traveling without a spare seems silly to me.

yup you might not be as hansom in your backup glasses but---

There is an old saying---two is one, one is none...

I try to have duplicates (or triplicates) of nearly everything in my life----please don't tell my girlfriend (s)
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Old 09-21-17, 01:45 PM   #14
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Not having a spare pair of glasses with you at all times when you are dependent on them is not what i would do.

When most people can get a second pair of glasses for $100-200 traveling without a spare seems silly to me.

I try to have duplicates (or triplicates) of nearly everything in my life----please don't tell my girlfriend (s)
Of course, I normally carry a spare pair. However, in travel you are usually strained from multiple sides. You end up having backups for 5 things but the 6th ended up in luggage you did not take along and for 2 you have double backups etc. It never is ideal. However, the more likely failure points are built in, the more often you will fail. You certainly remove those that you can take care of easily.
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Old 09-25-17, 06:43 AM   #15
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My central titanium experience:

At this point I was in Japan. No problem, I thought, as the detective work revealed that the frame was manufactured in Japan. At a local optician in Japan they said that nobody is going to touch it. I have to send the frame to the US to my optician. Then the optician will send it to the manufacturer in Japan for repair. Then they will send it back to my optician in the US and he will send it back to me in Japan
That is just Japan. I went to Sony with my 3 day old and broken Sony phone... They flat out refused to repair it even if I paid. I also have a Japanese Onkyo phone that I can't reboot because it might not ever turn back on. The shop where I bought it doesn't want to hear about it. That's Japan, home of the best and wosrt customer service.

The issue is that every company has deals with repair shops, didn't buy in Japan then nobody is getting a kickback so you are screwed.
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