Brompton drops lawsuit against Dahon
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Brompton drops lawsuit against Dahon
Dahon says Brompton has dropped trademark lawsuit | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News
Article doesn't mention the Dahon model in question, but one wonders if it was the Curl.
Article doesn't mention the Dahon model in question, but one wonders if it was the Curl.
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The suit alleged that Dahon was violating a Brompton trademark, and asked for injunction barring the sale of a new Dahon bike model introduced at the show.
And the end result, as I predicted some time back:
Brompton has voluntarily withdrawn the injunction request, and has opted to pay for Dahon's legal costs.
I wish the gang @ Brompton all the best, but
Let's hope Brompton is getting better professional council about post-Brexit tariffs.
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Brompton decides nobody is going to buy a Curl instead of a Brompton.
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baikbike.com
Brompton drops copyright injunction against Dahon Curl
September 29 2017, Friedrichshafen, Germany – DAHON Europe received a legal copy of a request for injunction filed by Brompton against their recently debuted CURL folding bike, in a court in Munich, Germany, on August 28, the first day of the Eurobike show. The basis of the request is an alleged violation of Brompton’ s “copyright”. DAHON’s lawyer, Arndt Althous, esq. of Cologne, submitted an answer to the court, refuting the allegation, and pointing out the many inventions/patents realized in the Curl.
A week later, Brompton voluntarily withdrew the injunction request, opting to pay for DAHON’s legal costs.
Dr. David Hon, CEO of DAHON North America, Inc. commented that, “Thanks to our many patents, the Curl is stiffer, faster and more compact. Brompton was allowed to use our popular 45° handlebar post patent free-of-charge for years when others paid up to $12.7 in today’s value. Technological evolution must march on. Let’s all green the world together!”. He further reemphasized that DAHON remains a globalized American company, and China is only one of many operations
Brompton drops copyright injunction against Dahon Curl
September 29 2017, Friedrichshafen, Germany – DAHON Europe received a legal copy of a request for injunction filed by Brompton against their recently debuted CURL folding bike, in a court in Munich, Germany, on August 28, the first day of the Eurobike show. The basis of the request is an alleged violation of Brompton’ s “copyright”. DAHON’s lawyer, Arndt Althous, esq. of Cologne, submitted an answer to the court, refuting the allegation, and pointing out the many inventions/patents realized in the Curl.
A week later, Brompton voluntarily withdrew the injunction request, opting to pay for DAHON’s legal costs.
Dr. David Hon, CEO of DAHON North America, Inc. commented that, “Thanks to our many patents, the Curl is stiffer, faster and more compact. Brompton was allowed to use our popular 45° handlebar post patent free-of-charge for years when others paid up to $12.7 in today’s value. Technological evolution must march on. Let’s all green the world together!”. He further reemphasized that DAHON remains a globalized American company, and China is only one of many operations
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From BikeBiz:
"We raised an injunction against the Dahon Curl but withdrew due to the requirement for a high level of 'urgency’", said Brompton CEO Will Butler-Adams. "In such a scenario we are required to pay any legal fees of the other party."
"We raised an injunction against the Dahon Curl but withdrew due to the requirement for a high level of 'urgency’", said Brompton CEO Will Butler-Adams. "In such a scenario we are required to pay any legal fees of the other party."
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baikbike.com
Brompton drops copyright injunction against Dahon Curl
September 29 2017, Friedrichshafen, Germany – DAHON Europe received a legal copy of a request for injunction filed by Brompton against their recently debuted CURL folding bike, in a court in Munich, Germany, on August 28, the first day of the Eurobike show. The basis of the request is an alleged violation of Brompton’ s “copyright”. DAHON’s lawyer, Arndt Althous, esq. of Cologne, submitted an answer to the court, refuting the allegation, and pointing out the many inventions/patents realized in the Curl.
A week later, Brompton voluntarily withdrew the injunction request, opting to pay for DAHON’s legal costs.
Dr. David Hon, CEO of DAHON North America, Inc. commented that, “Thanks to our many patents, the Curl is stiffer, faster and more compact. Brompton was allowed to use our popular 45° handlebar post patent free-of-charge for years when others paid up to $12.7 in today’s value. Technological evolution must march on. Let’s all green the world together!”. He further reemphasized that DAHON remains a globalized American company, and China is only one of many operations
Brompton drops copyright injunction against Dahon Curl
September 29 2017, Friedrichshafen, Germany – DAHON Europe received a legal copy of a request for injunction filed by Brompton against their recently debuted CURL folding bike, in a court in Munich, Germany, on August 28, the first day of the Eurobike show. The basis of the request is an alleged violation of Brompton’ s “copyright”. DAHON’s lawyer, Arndt Althous, esq. of Cologne, submitted an answer to the court, refuting the allegation, and pointing out the many inventions/patents realized in the Curl.
A week later, Brompton voluntarily withdrew the injunction request, opting to pay for DAHON’s legal costs.
Dr. David Hon, CEO of DAHON North America, Inc. commented that, “Thanks to our many patents, the Curl is stiffer, faster and more compact. Brompton was allowed to use our popular 45° handlebar post patent free-of-charge for years when others paid up to $12.7 in today’s value. Technological evolution must march on. Let’s all green the world together!”. He further reemphasized that DAHON remains a globalized American company, and China is only one of many operations
Dahon of 1981 looked like this;
Later Dahon's seem to copy the Brompton design not the other way round. Dahon if anything completely abandoned their early designs and moved to an existing folding bike design with no innovation at all. Taking a conventional folding bike frame approach with the folding handlebar stem of Brompton.
So why would Brompton need to license from Dahon? Surely the folding handlebar credit should go to Brompton although to be perfectly honest it wouldn't surprise me if such a handlebar stem had already been designed and used on an earlier product. There is a long history of interesting and varied folding bike designs from mainland Europe and the UK.
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The Brompton bike of Andrew Ritchie's patent looked like this, with its folding bars copied from Le Petit Bi:
Brompton.jpg
Then Dr. Hon secured this patent:
US4433852.jpg
In David Henshaw's Brompton Bicycle, Andrew Ritchie does not dispute this chronology. Mr. Ritchie is quoted as claiming he developed the 45° folding handle post independently prior to the Dahon patent and has some sketches with dates written on them to prove it. Unfortunately for Brompton, even if true that's not the way patents work. To make an a priori claim, one must make some public exhibition of the idea. Mr. Ritchie has consistently been unable to prove that he had done so prior to February 12, 1981.
On the Brompton web site under 'history' there's a picture labeled "1981", but if you click on it the image file name revealed is "1982 Production Run of 400 DSCN3981".
1982 Production Run of 400 DSCN3981.jpg
Brompton.jpg
Then Dr. Hon secured this patent:
US4433852.jpg
In David Henshaw's Brompton Bicycle, Andrew Ritchie does not dispute this chronology. Mr. Ritchie is quoted as claiming he developed the 45° folding handle post independently prior to the Dahon patent and has some sketches with dates written on them to prove it. Unfortunately for Brompton, even if true that's not the way patents work. To make an a priori claim, one must make some public exhibition of the idea. Mr. Ritchie has consistently been unable to prove that he had done so prior to February 12, 1981.
On the Brompton web site under 'history' there's a picture labeled "1981", but if you click on it the image file name revealed is "1982 Production Run of 400 DSCN3981".
1982 Production Run of 400 DSCN3981.jpg
Last edited by tcs; 10-04-17 at 11:53 AM.
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The Brompton bike of Andrew Ritchie's patent looked like this, with its folding bars copied from Le Petit Bi:
Attachment 583334
Then Dr. Hon secured this patent:
Attachment 583335
In David Henshaw's Brompton Bicycle, Andrew Ritchie does not dispute this chronology. Mr. Ritchie is quoted as claiming he developed the 45° folding handle post independently prior to the Dahon patent and has some sketches with dates written on them to prove it. Unfortunately for Brompton, even if true that's not the way patents work. To make an a priori claim, one must make some public exhibition of the idea. Mr. Ritchie has consistently been unable to prove that he had done so prior to February 12, 1981.
On the Brompton web site under 'history' there's a picture labeled "1981", but if you click on it the image file name revealed is "1982 Production Run of 400 DSCN3981".
Attachment 583336
Attachment 583334
Then Dr. Hon secured this patent:
Attachment 583335
In David Henshaw's Brompton Bicycle, Andrew Ritchie does not dispute this chronology. Mr. Ritchie is quoted as claiming he developed the 45° folding handle post independently prior to the Dahon patent and has some sketches with dates written on them to prove it. Unfortunately for Brompton, even if true that's not the way patents work. To make an a priori claim, one must make some public exhibition of the idea. Mr. Ritchie has consistently been unable to prove that he had done so prior to February 12, 1981.
On the Brompton web site under 'history' there's a picture labeled "1981", but if you click on it the image file name revealed is "1982 Production Run of 400 DSCN3981".
Attachment 583336
#9
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A trademark is typically a name, word, phrase, logo, symbol, design, image, or a combination of these elements.
A patent is a set of exclusive rights granted by a sovereign state to an inventor or assignee for a limited period of time in exchange for detailed public disclosure of an invention. An invention is a solution to a specific technological problem and is a product or a process.[1]:17 Patents are a form of intellectual property.
<-- wiki/google (in case I get sued )
So Trademark, Copyright, Patent. I suppose of the three, Patent is the strongest?
I read the patent has expired. Even if Brompton has a patent the "granted by a sovereign state" thing could limit its application (China, Russia, Sudan for example).
A patent is a set of exclusive rights granted by a sovereign state to an inventor or assignee for a limited period of time in exchange for detailed public disclosure of an invention. An invention is a solution to a specific technological problem and is a product or a process.[1]:17 Patents are a form of intellectual property.
<-- wiki/google (in case I get sued )
So Trademark, Copyright, Patent. I suppose of the three, Patent is the strongest?
I read the patent has expired. Even if Brompton has a patent the "granted by a sovereign state" thing could limit its application (China, Russia, Sudan for example).
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A patent protects inventions or discoveries. Patents allow you to stop third parties from making, using or selling your invention for a certain period depending on the type of invention.
A copyright protects original works of authorship, including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies and songs. Copyrights informs others that you (as the author) intend to control the production, distribution, display or performance of your work.
A trademark is generally a word, phrase, symbol, or graphic design, or a combination thereof, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others. Trademarks protect the name or logo of your product by preventing other business from selling a product under the same identification.
I read the patent has expired.
Last edited by tcs; 10-05-17 at 04:43 AM.
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As I understand it, the Brompton company are ardent supports of the Conservative Party in the UK. I'm not, but there bikes, and their business model, from their point of view have hitherto been excellent. However, the guys they actively supported brought about Brexit so they have no sympathy in terms of its IP and trade consequences for the company.
And, as Dr Hon said, from a folder advocacy point of view, the more, better, cheaper folding bike we have, the better it is for the planet.
Bring on the Curl.
And, as Dr Hon said, from a folder advocacy point of view, the more, better, cheaper folding bike we have, the better it is for the planet.
Bring on the Curl.
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I was mildly surprised that the Austrian-purchased Curl which Blackstrida was sorting came from Taiwan and not Dahon's partner Maxcom in Bulgaria. We've wondered on this forum before whether Maxcom manufactures Dahon folding frames in Plovdiv or only completes final assembly using frames manufactured in Shenzhen. Should the fruition of Brexit turn negative for Brompton, could they avoid EU tariffs by sending London manufactured frames, forks and handleposts to a modest warehouse space just across the Channel for final assembly? Hmph.
Last edited by tcs; 10-05-17 at 08:12 PM.
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As I understand it, the Brompton company are ardent supports of the Conservative Party in the UK. I'm not, but there bikes, and their business model, from their point of view have hitherto been excellent. However, the guys they actively supported brought about Brexit so they have no sympathy in terms of its IP and trade consequences for the company.
And, as Dr Hon said, from a folder advocacy point of view, the more, better, cheaper folding bike we have, the better it is for the planet.
Bring on the Curl.
And, as Dr Hon said, from a folder advocacy point of view, the more, better, cheaper folding bike we have, the better it is for the planet.
Bring on the Curl.
Surely the true providers of good quality folding bikes for the masses are the direct sellers and retail companies who purchase directly from factories to sell in their stores. These offer some of the best quality, best equipped bikes for the lowest prices, well below Dahon.
The reality is most companies in the UK support the Conservative party that's just the way it is. As for Brexit both labour and conservative were split on the vote. Many areas that were historically labour strongholds were those that voted for brexit at the highest percentage.
I voted to remain but there is no doubt a huge number of issues that Europe has caused for the UK and many other countries of Europe. The huge level of public debt across Europe is staggering.
I'd view the honesty and integrity of Brompton well above Dahon personally.
Not that I really think about the companies when buying a bike though. I tend to focus on achieving the best value purchase possible for my funds and try to cut through all marketing and brand values and just concentrate on the actual product itself especially as most of them are being made in similar far east factories.
Last edited by Bonzo Banana; 10-06-17 at 04:12 AM. Reason: spelling
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The reason Brompton used trademark to sue Dahon Curl is because the look and feel seems like Dahon Curl copied from Brompton. I am not sure about others but it seems to me Curl looks like the MK I, but that bike was discontinued more than 30 years ago. Anyway, just like people here already mentioned, most of Brompton's patents were expired long time ago.
I also pre-ordered a Dahon Curl and about to receive the bike in a week or two. I think it will be like the way it was advertised that it is stiffer and faster than my 6-speed Brompton but probably not as faster as my 2-speed Ti Brompton. I am not a fan of the internal gear hub, particularly made by Sturmey Archer.
I also pre-ordered a Dahon Curl and about to receive the bike in a week or two. I think it will be like the way it was advertised that it is stiffer and faster than my 6-speed Brompton but probably not as faster as my 2-speed Ti Brompton. I am not a fan of the internal gear hub, particularly made by Sturmey Archer.
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Working through the Brompton configurator on an EU web site I get an M3R price of €1466. The (initial) price of a Curl i3 is €899.
Folding Bikes by DAHON 35th Anniversary DAHON CURL i8 Now Available for Pre-Order ? Folding Bikes by DAHON
Which has $1,800.
Obviously the kickstarter campaign had a discounted price as is the way with many kickstarter projects but that isn't the retail price.
I don't think its unfair to compare them on price.
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One might under some* countries' laws sue or ask for an injunction under trademark or copyright if a product was so nearly similar in appearance that potential customers might not distinguish between the two items. (In the USA one would secure a design patent for this protection, not a copyright or trademark.) This was the basis of Brompton's suit against Neobike in Dutch courts, and I'm guessing the basis for their request for injunction against Dahon.
While there have been a few claims on the 'net that the Curl is a 'clone' of the Brompton, I find it incredulous that anyone would be unable to tell the two bikes apart. (The Brompton fanboys who have criticized the Curl's aesthetics obviously agree!) Anyway, this seems to be the argument Dahon's lawyer made, presenting as evidence the many novel features of the Curl that have been granted EU patents. The result was Brompton's suit didn't last past the initial hearing, and Brompton was ordered to pay Dahon's legal expenses (ouch).
I recall that last spring there was a prediction (couched in satire) that Brompton would try some sort of legal action against Dahon when the Curl entered the market.
*Andrew Ritchie has said Brompton wouldn't have gotten any copyright protection against Neobike under British law and the company had to go shopping to find a country where their suit had a chance to be successful.
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That would be a Brompton M1E (£1000 = €1116 @ today's exchange rate). I gave the price in Euros the Brompton configurator generated, €1466, for an M3R with Marathon tires, the configuration closest to the specification of the Curl i3.
Uh, yeah, see how the €899 price I gave is underlined? It's called 'hypertext'. Put your cursor on it and click; you'll be taken to an actual EU retail internet site offering the Curl i3 for sale.
Absolutely agree, and I did compare equivalently spec'ed models on current prices advertised in the same market.
The only Curl pricing I can find is this...
I don't think its unfair to compare them on price.
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That would be a Brompton M1E (£1000 = €1116 @ today's exchange rate). I gave the price in Euros the Brompton configurator generated, €1466, for an M3R with Marathon tires, the configuration closest to the specification of the Curl i3.
Uh, yeah, see how the €899 price I gave is underlined? It's called 'hypertext'. Put your cursor on it and click; you'll be taken to an actual EU retail internet site offering the Curl i3 for sale.
Absolutely agree, and I did compare equivalently spec'ed models on current prices advertised in the same market.
Uh, yeah, see how the €899 price I gave is underlined? It's called 'hypertext'. Put your cursor on it and click; you'll be taken to an actual EU retail internet site offering the Curl i3 for sale.
Absolutely agree, and I did compare equivalently spec'ed models on current prices advertised in the same market.
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I don't doubt that's a discounted price; it's also their current price anyone could walk in the door and pay. Just wondering: know an authorized Brompton dealer that discounts for more customers than just good friends and employees?
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280 lbs
1800 is the 35th ANIversary price... which includes a couple things, like your own signature laser edged on the bike.... and its alimited edition numbered from 1 to 500 ... different paintjob, couple small bits whch are nicer as well
I do not have a correct pricing for the regular Curl as I am fighting for 8 speed hubs for the US
but it will be less than the 35th ANi version for sure
Thor
1800 is the 35th ANIversary price... which includes a couple things, like your own signature laser edged on the bike.... and its alimited edition numbered from 1 to 500 ... different paintjob, couple small bits whch are nicer as well
I do not have a correct pricing for the regular Curl as I am fighting for 8 speed hubs for the US
but it will be less than the 35th ANi version for sure
Thor
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I really hope the pricing is more realistic. This bike was supposed to be what Brompton isn't,...and that's AFFORDABLE.
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€900 seems a realistic price for the three-speed.
So I guess a Nexus 8-powered Curl could fetch around €1,200, making it competitive with Brompton… if you don't mind having to carry your stuff in a backpack or a tiny trunk bag.
So I guess a Nexus 8-powered Curl could fetch around €1,200, making it competitive with Brompton… if you don't mind having to carry your stuff in a backpack or a tiny trunk bag.