Bike Friday New World Tourist or Mezzo D9
07-29-18, 07:24 PM
#26
Senior Member
yes, of course, because I meant it literally, rather than figuratively. You are either deliberately dense, or suffer from a grey-matter deficit.
07-29-18, 07:41 PM
#27
Senior Member
In general....
3.) Abu's claim that the Brompton's wheelbase would be in range with a LHT and therefor it would be like a boat to ride is misleading at best. New Brompton riders typically have a fear of nervousness on the bike - not a single one yet has complained that it would ride like a boat. On the other hand I've done more than 70kph downhill on a Brompton - which I would not have dared to do if it was a nervous or unstable bike. So I think the1045mm wheelbase works pretty well on it, all factors combined. YMMV and it may look and be different on other bikes.
...
3.) Abu's claim that the Brompton's wheelbase would be in range with a LHT and therefor it would be like a boat to ride is misleading at best. New Brompton riders typically have a fear of nervousness on the bike - not a single one yet has complained that it would ride like a boat. On the other hand I've done more than 70kph downhill on a Brompton - which I would not have dared to do if it was a nervous or unstable bike. So I think the1045mm wheelbase works pretty well on it, all factors combined. YMMV and it may look and be different on other bikes.
...
Yes, you have done high speeds on the Brompton. Yeah, so what? But that's not under debate. The issue is maneuvetability, low speed maneuverability, and on that score, the long wheelbase is indeed at a disadvantage. You can't have your cake, and eat it too. It's either very agile at low speed or stable at high speed. Your subjective feelings about stability, etc. does not undo this basic physical fact.
Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 07-29-18 at 09:28 PM.
07-29-18, 08:03 PM
#28
Senior Member
No, a 16-inch wheel single-tube folder is not going to handle like a same-wheelbase big wheel diamond frame bike. That's not how physics works.
07-29-18, 09:06 PM
#29
Senior Member
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If you want to use wider tires then the NWT is the better choice since it uses V-brakes.
The Mezzo uses caliper brakes.
The NWT is more of a 'break down' bike than really a folding one though, so if you live in an apartment and needs to fold everytime, then it might not be the best.
Other options, maybe a Tyrell IVE, ChangeBike, Curl, Dahon Dash
The Mezzo uses caliper brakes.
The NWT is more of a 'break down' bike than really a folding one though, so if you live in an apartment and needs to fold everytime, then it might not be the best.
Other options, maybe a Tyrell IVE, ChangeBike, Curl, Dahon Dash
07-30-18, 12:34 AM
#30
Senior Member
The Brompton has does in fact have a wheebase in the range of a touring bike, and of the Surly LHT, the quintessential, perhaps even iconic steel touring bike.
Yes, you have done high speeds on the Brompton. Yeah, so what? But that's not under debate. The issue is maneuvetability, low speed maneuverability, and on that score, the long wheelbase is indeed at a disadvantage. You can't have your cake, and eat it too. It's either very agile at low speed or stable at high speed. Your subjective feelings about stability, etc. does not undo this basic physical fact.
Yes, you have done high speeds on the Brompton. Yeah, so what? But that's not under debate. The issue is maneuvetability, low speed maneuverability, and on that score, the long wheelbase is indeed at a disadvantage. You can't have your cake, and eat it too. It's either very agile at low speed or stable at high speed. Your subjective feelings about stability, etc. does not undo this basic physical fact.
Other than that: The Brompton is a very manoeverable bike that can literally turn on a stamp. No matter what you say thousands of commuters show it every day. Just visit London to see it. Often enough I have my differences with Joe Remi - in this case I blow the same horn: Your "arguments" are absurd, far from reality and furthermore not at all helpful to the OP. If you really have ridden a Brompton your personal bias seems to stop you from accepting the truth and bring you to claim absurd arguments.
And btw.: This thread was neither about the Brompton or about the LHT...
07-30-18, 01:14 AM
#31
Senior Member
Interestingly enough the measures that you point out for the LHT differ slightly from the ones that I got from the frame-kit pdf - there seem to be errors in the frame kit one regarding the wheelbase. In your sheet the wheelbase of the LHT is between 1036,6 (42cm frame) and 1105,1mm (62cm frame). According to your sheet the 1045mm wheelbase of the Brompton would equal a tiny, 50cm sized LHT. I personally would need a 60cm - which offers a wheelbase of 1100,4mm. Much longer than the Brompton. Even a 56cm frame would already have a 1079,8 wheelbase - these two are clearly not in the same boat...
Other than that: The Brompton is a very manoeverable bike that can literally turn on a stamp. No matter what you say thousands of commuters show it every day. Just visit London to see it. Often enough I have my differences with Joe Remi - in this case I blow the same horn: Your "arguments" are absurd, far from reality and furthermore not at all helpful to the OP. If you really have ridden a Brompton your personal bias seems to stop you from accepting the truth and bring you to claim absurd arguments.
And btw.: This thread was neither about the Brompton or about the LHT...
Other than that: The Brompton is a very manoeverable bike that can literally turn on a stamp. No matter what you say thousands of commuters show it every day. Just visit London to see it. Often enough I have my differences with Joe Remi - in this case I blow the same horn: Your "arguments" are absurd, far from reality and furthermore not at all helpful to the OP. If you really have ridden a Brompton your personal bias seems to stop you from accepting the truth and bring you to claim absurd arguments.
And btw.: This thread was neither about the Brompton or about the LHT...
Absurd? Well, of course. When you cannot rebut an argument (the one about the physical turn radius, the wheelbase of a tourer), you smear with calls of "absurd".
Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 07-30-18 at 01:21 AM.
07-30-18, 03:30 AM
#32
Senior Member
The frame geometry i posted are what's on the Surly website today. What would i ride at 1.70 height? A 50cm or 52cm LHT based on standover and effective top tube. You call it tiny to suit your argument. But hey, you are riding the Titanic with that 107cm Bernd folder, so the Brompton by comparison must feel like a speed boat.
Absurd? Well, of course. When you cannot rebut an argument (the one about the physical turn radius, the wheelbase of a tourer), you smear with calls of "absurd".
Absurd? Well, of course. When you cannot rebut an argument (the one about the physical turn radius, the wheelbase of a tourer), you smear with calls of "absurd".
Turning circle: Give it a try with a Brompton and a 720cc bike of the same wheelbase. Then - and only then - we may talk again. Wheelbase is one thing, but - as Joe Remi said - wheel size has a lot of influence when it comes to real world manoeverability.
08-10-18, 07:26 PM
#34
Senior Member
Erecting the Strawman
As far as I know you are an American living in Asia. According to this page the average American man has a height of 1,77m. Thus at 1.70m you are way below average and need a "tiny frame" - no need to be embarrassed about that, but still a matter of fact. The Bernds (which you obviously never saw, let alone rode) is in no way a "Titanic" but regarding how it rides one of the best folders that I know of (and I am clearly not alone with that opinion). Unfortunately folding compactly is not it's biggest strength - easy and quick, but slightly big and it looks a bit like an accident in folded state.
Turning circle: Give it a try with a Brompton and a 720cc bike of the same wheelbase. Then - and only then - we may talk again. Wheelbase is one thing, but - as Joe Remi said - wheel size has a lot of influence when it comes to real world manoeverability.
Turning circle: Give it a try with a Brompton and a 720cc bike of the same wheelbase. Then - and only then - we may talk again. Wheelbase is one thing, but - as Joe Remi said - wheel size has a lot of influence when it comes to real world manoeverability.
The comparison is not between long wheelbase 349 and long wheelbase 622. You are chaning the subject, false dichotomy. The basis of comparison is long wheel base 349 versus shorter wheelbase 349, or ita near rivals and competitors, 305, 355 and 406. I don't have to havd ridden a Bernd bike to know that it too is subject to the same mechanics as all other mundane objects on this planet.
Erecting the Strawman so you can knock it down.
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