Get a cheap Folder and convert?
#26
Unreachable

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,742
Likes: 1,625
From: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer; 2013 Trek 7.3 FX; 2014 Trek 7.6 FX; 2019 Dahon Mu D9.
I Beg to Differ
As opposed to what? My Hemingway's factory disk brakes had little stopping power to speak of, not even enough to lock the rear wheel with me leaning over the front wheel. I ended up swapping them out for a nice set of hydraulic Shimanos. Now I have all the stopping power I could possibly need - certainly enough to overwhelm all the traction the Big Apples could muster - but it's the rider's skillful modulation that matters when it comes to avoiding locking a wheel.
#27
Ride more, eat less

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,166
Likes: 939
From: Philla PA, Hoboken NJ, Brooklyn NY
Bikes: Too many but never enough.
I'm used to using disc brakes on downhill MTB & motorcycles.
I never had issues stopping or avoiding impact with caliper brakes.
Brakes, who needs them, they only slow you down.
I never had issues stopping or avoiding impact with caliper brakes.
Brakes, who needs them, they only slow you down.
#28
Unreachable

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,742
Likes: 1,625
From: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer; 2013 Trek 7.3 FX; 2014 Trek 7.6 FX; 2019 Dahon Mu D9.
Which does more to make your earlier overkill remark even more odd than it does to make you look superhuman. If you've been riding motorcycles and downhill MTB (neither of which i could claim to have ever done,) then common sense says that you should know a thing or two about modulating your braking. The size of the wheels has nothing to do with it.
Well, neither have many of us. Again, that says a whole lot more about the skill of the rider than it does about the quality of the brakes.
I rest your case.
Well, neither have many of us. Again, that says a whole lot more about the skill of the rider than it does about the quality of the brakes.
I rest your case.
#30
Unreachable

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,742
Likes: 1,625
From: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer; 2013 Trek 7.3 FX; 2014 Trek 7.6 FX; 2019 Dahon Mu D9.
And I never said that you did. It's your blanket statement - and I quote - that sounds like an attempt to disqualify anything that falls outside of the realm of your own knowledge and experience. Could you please qualify that statement of yours with actual numbers? Where is it written - and backed up with facts - that people tend to have trouble handling the braking functions of small-wheeled bikes with disk brakes?
#31
Ride more, eat less

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,166
Likes: 939
From: Philla PA, Hoboken NJ, Brooklyn NY
Bikes: Too many but never enough.
Smaller contact patch for smaller diameter tire, therefore less traction available.
If braking force is increase with less available traction, do you know what happens?
If braking force is increase with less available traction, do you know what happens?
#32
Unreachable

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,742
Likes: 1,625
From: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer; 2013 Trek 7.3 FX; 2014 Trek 7.6 FX; 2019 Dahon Mu D9.
Yeah, you spill out (or worse.) but your talk of the contact patch being smaller for a smaller wheel is a gross oversimplification. Again, it has all to do with how you brake and little to do with how much you - as in you, the rider - brake.
Last edited by sjanzeir; 03-18-22 at 06:28 PM.
#34
Senior Member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 440
From: UK
Bikes: customized Dahon Helios 1x10, customized Dahon Smooth Hound 1x11, customized Dahon Hammerhead 8.0 d7, Kinesis GX Race 50(mullet setup 1x11), Forme Calver 37 (1x11), Planet X Giovanissimi 20 (1x9), Orange Zest 20 (1x9)
Strictly speaking if you were to fit the exact same disc brake system on 700c and 20, the brake power will be greater on a 20 because of the smaller mechanical advantage (radial lever).
Between 50-662 and 50-406, the contact path is greater for 700c (even if considering 40psi of 700 and 26psi on 20).
So, the mechanical load generated by a 700c on a said 160mm disc is going to be greater than what a 20 is going to produce. With the same braking system, if you apply the same load on the lever, the 20 will skid.
Rough calculations would said that for equal caliper, lever and pads, you should get similar performance between a 20 fitted with 140m disc and a 29 fitted with 203mm disc
Between 50-662 and 50-406, the contact path is greater for 700c (even if considering 40psi of 700 and 26psi on 20).
So, the mechanical load generated by a 700c on a said 160mm disc is going to be greater than what a 20 is going to produce. With the same braking system, if you apply the same load on the lever, the 20 will skid.
Rough calculations would said that for equal caliper, lever and pads, you should get similar performance between a 20 fitted with 140m disc and a 29 fitted with 203mm disc
#35
The contact patch does not really enter into it as such. The braking force is the friction FORCE, which is the pressure force on the tire times the coefficient of friction of the tire. The pressure force is the pressure times the area of the contact patch. If you have a wider tire, the tire patch area increases, but the pressure will be lower as it a linear relationship to the weight divided by the area of the patch. Not trying to be a know-it-all. If I am wrong about this, one of you physicist types correct me. That said there are advantages to wider tires but braking is a function of the coefficient of friction of the tire.
#36
Senior Member


Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,838
Likes: 398
From: Michigan
Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...
This wrong by pure physics. I am not talking about or getting into the argument of disk brakes.
The contact patch does not really enter into it as such. The braking force is the friction FORCE, which is the pressure force on the tire times the coefficient of friction of the tire. The pressure force is the pressure times the area of the contact patch. If you have a wider tire, the tire patch area increases, but the pressure will be lower as it a linear relationship to the weight divided by the area of the patch. Not trying to be a know-it-all. If I am wrong about this, one of you physicist types correct me. That said there are advantages to wider tires but braking is a function of the coefficient of friction of the tire.
The contact patch does not really enter into it as such. The braking force is the friction FORCE, which is the pressure force on the tire times the coefficient of friction of the tire. The pressure force is the pressure times the area of the contact patch. If you have a wider tire, the tire patch area increases, but the pressure will be lower as it a linear relationship to the weight divided by the area of the patch. Not trying to be a know-it-all. If I am wrong about this, one of you physicist types correct me. That said there are advantages to wider tires but braking is a function of the coefficient of friction of the tire.




