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Capreo cassettes

Old 12-02-23, 02:07 PM
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Capreo cassettes

N.A. (and perhaps others) small wheelers, stop me if you've heard this: Soma fab is inventorying Capreo-compatible Sunrace cassettes now. 9 speed, 9-28T.

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/590...IP0k#attr=4801
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Old 12-02-23, 03:37 PM
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Oh, that's a nice cassette... Too bad the S&H is so expensive.

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Old 12-02-23, 04:10 PM
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Aye, but the question that arises (in my mind, at least) is: Why? Why choose a higher-price 9-28T Capreo cogset with 311% range requiring a proprietary hub carrier with the increased inefficiency and accelerated wear of a 9T cog, when one can choose a less expensive, regular 11-36T cogset with 327% range, no funky or proprietary parts and improved efficiency and reduced wear of a 11T cog? 🤔

For example, this Shimano CS-HG50-10, 11-36T part sells for less than $30.



Similarly, a Shimano CS-HG400-9, 11-36T sells for under $20.

Finally, something to keep in mind is that folders, particularly the 16" species, tend to have shorter chain stays. The chain stays on my FnHon Gust 16", for example, are a mere only 33cm. Those on the 102cm wheelbase FnHon Storm 20", only 40cm. This means that the chain angle will always be more oblique than on regular sized bikes, which will translate into greater inefficiency and wear on the innermost and outermost cogs. This is less of a problem on the biggest cog where friction and wear is spread over more cog teeth and chain links, but it will really bite you hard on the small cog. For this reason, one will want to avoid a 9T cog on a short-chainstay bike.
​​​​​​
In 2023, Capreo is an obsolete anachronism, imo.

Last edited by Ron Damon; 12-02-23 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 12-02-23, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
Aye, but the question that arises (in my mind, at least) is: Why? Why choose a 9-28 Capreo cogset with 311% range requiring a proprietary hub carrier with the inefficiency and accelerated wear of a 9T cog, when one can choose a regular 11-36T cogset with 327% range, no funky or proprietary parts and improved efficiency and reduced wear of a 11T cog? 🤔
Yeah, I can definitely see your point. That 9T cog will wear down pretty fast. And once it's gone, it's gone.
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Old 12-02-23, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
Aye, but the question that arises (in my mind, at least) is: Why? Why choose a higher-price 9-28T Capreo cogset with 311% range requiring a proprietary hub carrier with the increased inefficiency and accelerated wear of a 9T cog, when one can choose a less expensive, regular 11-36T cogset with 327% range, no funky or proprietary parts and improved efficiency and reduced wear of a 11T cog? 🤔

For example, this Shimano CS-HG50-10, 11-36T part sells for less than $30.



Similarly, a Shimano CS-HG400-9, 11-36T sells for under $20.
Because on small wheel bikes, to have high enough gear inches with a cassette+derailleur transmission (not an IGH), there are only two choices:
- either use a very big chainring.
- either use a cassette with a 9t or 10t smallest cog.

For instance the equivalent of 52tx9t (7.9m on the Riese&Müller Birdy Touring) with a 11t smallest cog is 64tx11t.

Even if possible without causing problems for the folding, a 64t chainring is not nice to have on a folding bike!

Sometime, people should consider the technical requirements of small wheels bikes instead of only looking at the lowest price!
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Old 12-02-23, 07:40 PM
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Why?
To get the range of that 9x28, you'll need an 11x34. The 34 will need a derailleur with a longer cage. The longer cage will hang down further.

But I'm still not following you. Somebody has a Capreo-pattern rear hub on their folder. Shimano discontinued the cassettes. Now there's a convenient source for replacement/spares. Are you suggesting they rebuild a rear wheel with a new hub, buy a different derailleur, fit a huge front chainring...to save money on the cassette? No, seriously, I've missed your point. Could you re-explain?
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Old 12-02-23, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs
To get the range of that 9x28, you'll need an 11x34. The 34 will need a derailleur with a longer cage. The longer cage will hang down further.

But I'm still not following you. Somebody has a Capreo-pattern rear hub on their folder. Shimano discontinued the cassettes. Now there's a convenient source for replacement/spares. Are you suggesting they rebuild a rear wheel with a new hub, buy a different derailleur, fit a huge front chainring...to save money on the cassette? No, seriously, I've missed your point. Could you re-explain?
The points, plural, which should be obvious from reading my original post are as follows:
  • Capreo harks back to a time when wide-range cogsets and RD capable of spanning them were relatively few or altogether non-existent. Conditions today have changed, with the easy availability and low cost of 11-36T cogsets (and upwards) and RD like the Shimano Zee and the Microshift Shorty. It is now possible, indeed relatively easy to get greater range from a cogset than one would get from a Capreo 9-28T without worries about low-hanging, vulnerable RD. They have become non-issues.
  • For reasons of efficiency, wear/durability and proprietary parts, Capreo was never a great idea. It was a necessary expediency back in the day. It's even a worse idea today.
As one who routinely rides a 16" (ISO305) folder, has ridden one for years, and has toured on one in both First-World andThird-World conditions and terrains, including literal cross-country hauls, I am fairly confident in saying that I know about low-hanging RD and range. As one who literally builds his own bikes, I am intimately aware of what it takes to build, re-build and specc a bike. Now, if you are already invested in Capreo already, by all means, go ahead and buy those cogsets as replacements. But if you are not invested in it, there are several good reasons (I've outlined them now twice) to stay away. And if you are chasing top-end speed with a folder, with an inefficient double-suspension (ISO355 or ISO406) folder, with an inefficient 9T cog, your judgement is suspect, no matter how expensive, hallowed and revered your bike is, no matter how much coin you dropped on it.
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Old 12-02-23, 10:45 PM
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Capreo components are highly regarded in Japan, which is arguably the world’s top market for folding bikes. NOS Capeo cassettes sell for more than $100, so these Sunrace cassettes will be very welcome to the Japanese market.

I ran a Capreo cassette with a Dura Ace 7700 derailleur and XTR 9 speed shifters on my Moulton. This setup gave me a significant increase in the top end compared to the 11-28 Dura Ace cassette I am now running. My only complaint about the cassette was that it was quite heavy for its size, and it was fast-wearing.
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Old 12-02-23, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
The points, plural, which should be obvious from reading my original post are as follows:
  • Capreo harks back to a time when wide-range cogsets and RD capable of spanning them were relatively few or altogether non-existent. Conditions today have changed, with the easy availability and low cost of 11-36T cogsets (and upwards) and RD like the Shimano Zee and the Microshift Shorty. It is now possible, indeed relatively easy to get greater range from a cogset than one would get from a Capreo 9-28T without worries about low-hanging, vulnerable RD. They have become non-issues.
  • For reasons of efficiency, wear/durability and proprietary parts, Capreo was never a great idea. It was a necessary expediency back in the day. It's even a worse idea today.
As one who routinely rides a 16" (ISO305) folder, has ridden one for years, and has toured on one in both First-World andThird-World conditions and terrains, including literal cross-country hauls, I am fairly confident in saying that I know about low-hanging RD and range. As one who literally builds his own bikes, I am intimately aware of what it takes to build, re-build and specc a bike. Now, if you are already invested in Capreo already, by all means, go ahead and buy those cogsets as replacements. But if you are not invested in it, there are several good reasons (I've outlined them now twice) to stay away. And if you are chasing top-end speed with a folder, with an inefficient double-suspension (ISO355 or ISO406) folder, with an inefficient 9T cog, your judgement is suspect, no matter how expensive, hallowed and revered your bike is, no matter how much coin you dropped on it.
Do you really think that there are people out there who don't currently have Capreo but are now considering it because of this new announcement and will now seek out Capreo hubs and build wheels?

This is clearly for people who already have Capreo and are looking for affordable replacement parts.
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Old 12-03-23, 02:32 AM
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Its clear that Capreo is now obsolete and that this announcement is only for people having a Capreo equipped bike and need to replace their cassette.

For people needing high enough gear inches on a small wheel (folding or not) bike, there is the XD or XDR freewheel body and wide range 11s cassettes from E-thirteen with 9-34 to 9-46 or 12s up to 9-50.

Helix Superlight is for instance using this solution.

SRAM has several cassettes starting with a 10t cog for road bikes and MTB with the advantage to use smaller chainring with a smaller teeth difference on double chainring crankset.

Shimano has the microspline freewheel body with wide range cassettes starting at 10t.

Campagnolo has the Ekar group with wide range cassettes starting at 9t .

For remembrance, Shimano developed the Capreo group for small wheels bike, not to have a wide range. The reason why Capreo is popular in Japan is because Japanese like small wheels bike.

Last edited by Jipe; 12-03-23 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 12-05-23, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jipe
Its clear that Capreo is now obsolete, and that this announcement is only for people having a Capreo equipped bike and need to replace their cassette.
And this alone means it's something I should avoid.
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Old 12-05-23, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jipe
Its clear that Capreo is now obsolete and that this announcement is only for people having a Capreo equipped bike and need to replace their cassette.
And for those people the shipping charge is probably not an issue

People are still watching IRD for threaded freewheels too even though they apparently are getting worse and worse
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