After the false start on the Brompton C Line 12 speed, and return, I did some soul-searching. I decided I'd get more use out of a classy folding cargo eBike than a classy folding compact bike, so I just ordered a Vektron S10 from REI and will pick it up locally.



This will replace my Ride1UP Portola, which was stolen last summer in Colorado Springs, CO.

My garage is getting full, even for a folder that stands on its back, so this may also just replace my Aventon Level.2 and/or Yamaha Wabash RT as well. I love the Aventon, as it rolls well enough to also be a slow/heavy hybrid unpowered. The Yamaha, I just don't gel with and don't ride much. Rather sell it when it's newish than wait several years to figure out it's not getting enough miles.

Anyway, here are the high and lows on the Vektron S10 that sold me on it:

PROS:
+ Bosch PerformanceLine motor has a good reputation, rated for 65 Nm of torque. I hope it is geared appropriately for the Class 1 top speed; if so, it will climb ANY hill, even fully-laden.

+ Light-ish for an multi-speed folding eBike @ 49 lbs. That's about the same as a single speed Lectric XP Lite 2.0, but with more range and lower gearing when needed.

+ Telescoping seatpost and Andros stem will let this adjust to fit my 5'2 wife as well as myself. (5'9)

+ Atlas rack has feet on the back, so it'll stand vertically to keep the garage footprint small, even unfolded. It's also KLICKfix-compatible, so my Vincita rack back can go on it. It has lower rails too, maybe the bike is long enough that I can use my Ortlieb panniers on it as well...

+ Tern seems to have a robust range of quality accessories

+ Big Apple tires; I had these years ago and liked the supple ride they gave. Mid-grade puncture protection, too. (I'll probably add some tube sealant, just to be sure)

+ Steering tube-mounted luggage socket. It won't use my ZiZZO shopping bag, but I quickly got spoiled by having a QR bag up there that didn't load the steering up.

+ Mid drive, Class 1 only w/torque sensor should give a natural feel, if my wife wants to ride it. (she doesn't like the old school cadence sensor on our Lectric XP Lite; she and my stepdaughter have each crashed it once due to it taking off on its own when rolling the bike causes the crank to turn; that's not an awesome design)

CONS:
- Chain/derailleur drive. I kinda wanted belt drive and was thinking about the HSD, but it's an extra $1500. Not sure I'd use a dedicated cargo bike enough to justify the expense at this stage of my life.

- Heavy, for a folding bike with 20" wheels.

- Spendy; could've gotten a G Line or Bike Friday with this money, so I hope I enjoy the electric aspect enough!

- QR skewers are not a great spec on this bike. I'm going to either have to replace them with something secure or bring extra locks if I go to Chicago with it. Would've rather had through axles and include the little handle-wrench that's easily removable. (like on modern road bikes)

UNSURE:
+/- Hydraulic disc brakes and strong and have great feel, but are not a great combo with QR skewers.

Awesome! Good luck with it. Happy New Bike Day and all the REI points you're getting!

Its a very good folding ebike.

Its only drawback is its weight.

With an adapter, its possible to mount a Brompton front block and use Brompton front bags.

Its rear rack is very strong, excellent to carry big rear pannier.

The factory mounted Big Apple are very good, relatively lightweight, comfortable and fast but with an average puncture protection. For a top puncture protection and still a fast touring tire, the best option is the Continental eContact Plus 55x406 with the same width.

This Bosch Performance Line mid motor is more powerful that it seems, with an accessory that suppress the 20mph assist limit (Speedbox for instance) and a bigger chainring, it easily rides up to 50km/h. Bosch has the Performance Sport mid motor which is identical to the Performance Line but with a 28mph e-assist limit.
The drawback of this Gen3 mid motor is its high pedaling resistance without e-assist (but it is very silent, it makes much less noise than the Bosch Gen4).

Jipe, well-noted on the Big Apples having less puncture resistance. I'm going to put some tube sealant in them. This one by Muc-Off is good for the life of the tube and has been working well in the tubes of my wife's Electra Townie GO! 7D cruiser eBike. I had been using FlatOut on other bikes, but it seems to be thicker and designed for bigger, low-pressure tires and doesn't have a good way of metering it into bike inner tubes.



I just ordered this Rixen & Kaul Freepack Sport (small backpack) for the front luggage truss.

Should be just about right for the head tube mount. Note the helmet & water bottle for scale. Looks like I can also get a KLICKfix adapter for seat posts on other bikes, like maybe my ZiZZO...


The truss is only rated for 7 kg (15.4 lbs), so not as sturdy as Brompton's. No one seems to make a mount that goes from the frame of the Vektron directly to Brompton, there are always janky adapters needed. Here's the truss. I cantilevers out more than Brompton's, it looks like so it can accommodate the cables better:

KLICKfix makes an all-plastic one for about half the price, but it's only rated for 5 kg, while this one is rated for 7 kg. (Brompton's is 10 kg, I believe)

I had a Vektron S10 as fat folder before my Bike Friday All-day, I swapped to the All-day mostly because of the weight of the Vektron (carrying a bike that weight 22kg naked without any accessory is quite uncomfortable, the solution I had is to carry the folded Vektron in a Tern Stow bag with a wide shoulder strap) and the pedaling resistance motor off of the Bosch Performance Line.

I had a Valeria's Brompton block adapter (which seems not available anymore?). Bikegang has also an adapter for a Brompton block

But think that the Vellobike front block allow to directly mount a Brompton bag compatible block on a Tern, Dahon.. frame?

I had one problem of front brake disc vibration that was making a lot of noise each time I was braking, I had to change the disc for a Magura MDR-C (EU Vektron S10 have the excellent Magura MT4 brakes, not sure that the US Vektron S10 have Magura brakes?).

I have this carry bag from Amazon that fits my un-powered 20" folding bikes; I will take a look and see if it fits this before I buy another one.
I will likely fold this bike a lot more just into a Rubbermaid tote and then in the back of my SUV rather than carry it around. For true multi-modal use, I don't think this will be a great bike. There is the weight, as you mention, but also all the quick releases: front wheel, rear wheel, seat post... It would take a lot to make this unattractive to thieves in Chicago or Milwaukee.

Ah, the Bike Gang one looks good. Would've saved me $150, if there's room for the cables behind the bag that gets mounted. Maybe I will buy one anyway just to try it and have the option of using my ZiZZO shopping bag...

It's hard to tell.

This one is the Gen 3 and has Magura brakes and the Performance Line motor, instead of ActiveLine or ActiveLine+. (the Q9 Vektron will have the ActiveLine+ motor w/50 Nm instead of 65) I probably should have waited for the Q9 and saved $300, as I don't need that much torque; I'm pretty strong from all my bike club riding.

I forgot to respond to this.

I got my first mid-drive eBike with the Yamaha Wabash RT late last year. I felt like this too. When the motor is not energized, the rider is pedaling not only to power the chain & sprockets, (which have VERY little friction), but also the gears and rotor of the motor against its magnets. Yamaha "got around" this by programming an "ECO+" assistance level, which is only enough power to overcome that resistance and maybe account for the extra 30 lbs. of bike weight. It is not as good of a bike to pedal unpowered as any hub drive eBike I have. (and I have a few!)

With a hub motor, one is also pedaling against that same resistance, but since the motor and gear train are built into the hub, the wheel radius provides a lot of leverage leverage against it, so it's not noticeable. I expect to find the same thing with this bike. I guess if it is objectionable, I will re-sell it and get a Lectric XP4. We'll see!

I had also the S10.

The difference wrt. the Q9 is not only the motor (which is a huge difference, the Performance Line is much more powerful and sporty than the Active Line +), most other components (transmission, wheels, brakes, handlebar...) are also better on the S10. The list price difference is much more than 300USD.

For the Vellobike front block that accepts Brompton bags, if you look at the adapter from Bikegang, it fits on the Tern and on the Vellobike, so I assume that the Vellobike front block should fit on the Tern.

For the bag, even with this bag and its wide shoulder strap, its not really possible to carry the Vektron on long distances, its too heavy and bulky.

IIRC, someone makes security skewers with keyed ends. But even low-end thieves these days know what they are looking at, and that bike is a target. Maybe OK in a reasonably secure area with lots of traffic and a really good lock. But you should try wheeling it through at your destinations; I am able to in most stores, and the others, I walk or drive there, I never leave my bike outside (not super expensive but looks that way because my mods make it look like a Bike Friday NWT, and the ignorant think it's electric due to the monobeam frame, even worse).

Regarding wheel pullout with discs and QRs: A valid concern, but at least, for the same braking ground thrust, smaller wheels generate smaller torque about the brake caliper to pull the axle down and out. Forward dropout orientation in front would help. On a regular bike, rear wheel loading would greatly decrease in a hard stop, so rear tire would slip before torquing the wheel out of the dropout, but that bike may have enough road-hugging weight to generate high torque there, so yeah, make sure the QRs are plenty tight, or replace with security nut system.

Ah, I didn't notice that; thanks! All these little component upgrades do matter.

Yep, that's expected on a 50 lb. bike that's more than twice as thick as an unfolded bike.
One review I watched said the easier way to carry it is unfolded, with the Porter saddle bad on the shoulder and a hand on the frame. (with the chain away from one's body)
I will also practice wheeling it. The Tern guy in one video thought it was best to leave the handlebar up, tilt it back and wheel it like that. I have high hopes, but one reviewer said it's not easy.

We may have different locking ideas. But even in Chicago, in an area with a decent amount of foot traffic, thieves only are interested in bikes secured with cable locks and loose parts and accessories. They are too lazy to work, so too lazy to do a proper job of thieving as well. Overnight, it might be a different story. ...or maybe I'm wrong and have just gotten lucky so far!

I wasn't thinking much about pull-out, but brake alignment. On my Lectric XP Lite, (which doesn't even have QR) I sometimes note that the front brake is dragging. I flip the bike over and check the axle nuts; they're tight. I loosen them and make sure the axle is seated all the way down in the dropouts, then re-tighten it. Still drags. In order for it not to drag, I have to lift one side of the axle so it's not quite all the way down in the dropout, then tighten the hell out of it, because once it gets pushed down all the way, it drags again. I guess that's a sign of imprecise manufacturing, but I think it would be worse with QR.

I have a bike club buddy who has a 40+ year old Bianchi road bike with QR skewers, but it has alignment screws in the backs of the dropouts to keep the axle aligned right, if needed. That's a rim brake bike too, but much better-made than my cheap little Lectric.

In theory, indeed, thru axles are better, but in practice I never had any issue with the quick release.

As said, the only problem I had was with the front disc vibrating and making a lot of noise, probably due to the stiffness of the rigid thick, straight aluminum fork (it never happened on the rear brake that has the same disc type+diameter and same caliper)?

I also carried it unfolded, the problem is the same, its was really too heavy.

My Vektron had some components changed that reduce its weight but also some accessories added that increase it.

...and now that you have the Bike Friday All-Day, do you carry it around more?

It seems like that would be a good feature for a bike that would often be used on public transit and for air travel, but not as much elsewhere.

Despite its heavy weight, I had to carry the bike, for example up stairs or into the trunk of my car. And it was really unpleasant due to the weight and the fact that the magnet that keep the front and rear parts folded is not very strong.

But because of its weight, I left it outside tied to a fixed point rather than taking it with me into buildings (stores, sports clubs, etc.).

The much lower weight of the All-day (something like 8-9kg less when the bike has all needed accessories on it, the All-day weight less than 2/3 of the weight of the Vektron S10) makes that carrying it is easy and most time I can take it with me inside of buildings, either unfolded or folded with or without bag (I use the Tern bag for the All-day, its a little bit too big, but I don't care and this bag has 4 handles in addition to its shoulder strap that make it very easy to use), with the use of the attached velcro strap (the one that wrapped around the seatpost), the All-day remain folded while carrying it.

Now, before deciding to buy the Vektron S10, I looked at many other folding bikes with a mid motor from Bosch or Shimano available at that time (July 2023) and the Vektron S10 was by far the best: had the best available motor, folds smaller, folds better, weight less or the same as competitors and has better features (rear rack, front blag mount...).

Sharing a little frustration with the purchase: I charged it to my credit card. My credit card company, seeing that I don't often charge expensive things like this on it, declined the transaction. I got a text from the credit card company wanting me to confirm I was trying to buy it. I confirmed. I called REI and had them run it again, success. Now, 4 days later, the charge is still "Pending" with the credit card. I called the credit card company, they said it is on hold from REI and there is nothing to do but wait.

I hope they are shipping the bike to REI and will charge me at some point soon, rather than waiting on something else.

New Bike Day will be delayed awhile, it looks like.

I get it, they're trying to make sure I'm not getting scammed, but I sure don't feel like it was a convenient way to make a purchase, like I did 10 years ago.

On the other hand, I get $350 REI to spend there at the end of the year and a 2% kickback ($7) to spend at Amazon from the credit card. It costs time to save money, it seems...

Charging with a credit card is a big plus; First, that verfication to prevent fraud is good, with all the fraud going on, and second, if something you buy is not as advertised and the retail seller refuses to remedy, you can dispute the charge with your charge card company, and lemme tell ya, that is a big plus, they have more horsepower and leverage, at least if backed by a large bank with dispute department. Fortunately, that shouldn't be an issue with REI, they are famous for good customer service, at least in my past experience.

It seems that Tern will discontinue the Vektron S10 for 2026, replacing it by a new supposedly high end model Vektron P5i with a Shimano Nexus 5 IGH and a Gates Carbon belt.

For me its really a pity because this hub and the Gates belt have a lower efficiency, a narrow gear inch range and are heavier (the P5i weights are 23.7 with 400Wh or 24.4kg with 545Wh vs. 22.1kg with 500Wh for the S10).

The mid motor seems to be the Smart System gen 3 Performance Line (its not specified but from the posted pictures the frame seems to have the same motor mount for a gen 3 motor as previously) which will be discontinued by Bosch and replaced by a brand new gen 5 Performance Line with a much lower pedaling resistance and weight 400g less. Note that the published pictures do not match the published specs: the pictured bike has a LED remote control and not a Purion 200 control like in the specs.

Besides the transmission and the move to the Smart System Performance Line, there seems to be very little changes?

^^Above: Don't you hate it when a manufacturer makes a pretty great product, then downgrades it?

Yes.

Tern explains that an IGH is better for a commuter utility bike but in the previous range of Vektron, there were 3 types, a cheaper Vektron with a cheaper derailleur transmission lower end mid drive motor and lower end components, one with an IGH and then the higher end, higher performance derailleur S10.

The main problem I see with this new high end Vektron is that the main drawback of the S10 was its too high weight to easily carry it and the new P5i will be more than 2kg heavier (in Europe, the S10 comes with a 500Wh battery and weight 22.1kg, the new P5i will weight 24.4kg with the 545Wh)!

There's one other change: the price. I paid $3500 for my S10, which is the current USA MSRP. The plaque for this one says it's 4500 Euro, which today is $5,263. That is a 50% price increase, and it's not accounting for tariff, because that's the Europe price, not USA. (thought it might include a hefty VAT)

My heart sank when I read of this new model having belt drive, as this was my only wish for a feature to have that it doesn't already have; I just HATE chain maintenance. I'm sure it's a beefed-up Nexus 5 to handle the torque from the mid drive motor. The engineers probably tried other hubs and decided to go with this one for a combination of reasons of durability and cost. I see that Tern is specifying a version of the Rohloff hub in their high-end cargo bikes. THAT would've been cool, but would've also added $1k to the price.

Design-wise, did you notice how they flared the belt stay to go OUTSIDE the belt, so the frame doesn't have to be opened to change a belt? That was smart.

The more I think of it though, the more I like Lectric's approach with their One model: Hub drive to save some cost and torque on the drivetrain, and Pinion gearbox in the bottom bracket for the gears. Then, belt drive to top things off. Yeah, a hub motor can't make use of MY torque as much as a mid drive, but MY torque is paltry anway, compared to a geared-down hub motor. Lectric spec'd a 750 W hub motor, then geared it for 28 mph (45 kph) and users still report that it's VERY torquey. Peak power is said to be about double the rated. Imagine if they'd used that same motor in the hub, but geared it for max. 15.5 mph (25 kph) or 20 mph (32 kph). I might just get one for my next eBike, if I can get the Yamaha sold.

This is one small comfort for me. Already going to 20" wheels instead of 27.5" / 650b or 29"/70c costs some efficiency. Going to a gearhub with an average 10% efficiency hit also hurts, probably cancels out any gains from the lower resistance pedaling you mention below.

Well, they had to change the frame to accommodate the belt drive...

It'll be interesting to see the final version. It may not even make it to the US...

Almost all Shimano IGH are old design, made well before the appearance of mid drive motor, they do not accept the high torque of current mid motor like the Smart System Performance Line that has 75Nm max ( the Smart System Performance Line has a higher max torque as the System 2 Performance Line).

Only the latest Nexus 5 was designed for mid drive motor ebikes.

The problem with these high power rear hub motor is that they consume a lot of power because of their higher power but also the lower average efficiency of hub motor (a hub motor doesn't benefit of the bike transmission, it is forced to turn at rpm where it has a very low efficiency) with as consequence that these bike need a high capacity, heavy battery.

For the price of the Vektron S10 in Europe, the street price was much lower than the official Tern price, I paid mine 3400€ (the high price in USD is due to the current weak USD vs. €).

Now about this new Vektron, I think its a short term update of the Vektron and that Tern will soon make a real new Vektron with the latest gen 5 Bosch mid motor (they have all the same mounting into the frame, so a frame made for the gen 5 can accept any of the gen 5 mid motor from the lightweight Performance SX to the most powerful Performance CX and Cargo line with 100Nm max torque and 750W peak power).

About the pedaling resistance of the gen 3 Bosch mid motors: its only a problem when using the bike without e-assist = with motor off, its due to the fact that when the motor is off, the crank make turn some part of the internal motor gearbox, its not an issue when the motor is working. Its off course an issue when riding above the e-assist speed limit.

Did you eventually receive your Vektron S10 ?

Yes, Wednesday afternoon I took vacation to go pick it up. I have about 60 miles on it so far, on the first charge. (I'm at about 2/5 charge)


Side view, with Vincita Big Nash rack bag fitted

Ans, you like it?

The Vektron has an excellent big rear rack, its also excellent for big rear pannier.

Yeah, I love it.
As you alluded to, it is not a great choice for a folder that must be carried often or far, but other than that and the high price, it is hard to critique. I don't find it hard to pedal un-powered, except back-pedaling.

Agreed.
I'm playing around with a small bag that is big enough for flat tire essentials to let me not take that large rear bag all the time. (as it weighs 5 lbs / 2 kg empty!)


I made a quick walk-around video showing current accessories: