Looks like they just announced what's different about the new Liberté Plus:
https://zizzo.bike/collections/zizzo...g-bike-liberte


Pretty simple evolutionary improvements:


+ Removed chainring guard, switched to narrow-wide chainring to help prevent chain drops. (refers to tooth shape)

+ Still weighs 23 lbs.

+ Retains the 8-speed Shimano Altus drivetrain with big jockey wheel

+/- Retains 1.5" high pressure tires

+ Rust-resistant components (I believe this is new to this model, brought down from the Marino)
6 Max. load weight is 240 lbs. (I think it was 230 before?)

? Shifter says "newly redesigned Shimano Revo 8 grip style shifter" (What did it have before?)

- No more silver/red color scheme; only boring silver/black now :-(

- Price bump to $600. (was $560, IIRC)



Better evolutionary improvements than none though; I'm glad they're trying to stay competitive. I can't think of any 20" folder under $1,000 that can claim 23 lb. weight. Tern's sporty X11 weighs 23 lbs., but lists at $2900!

Le sigh... Still no disc brakes...

ZiZZO is allergic to disc brakes, I guess that's one way to keep costs down.

(← guy speeding down a mountain who can't stop, because he has rim brakes)

Dahon only has a couple disc brake models.

Tern has more, but those models are spendy.


Bike Friday has both options, but disc brakes are more expensive, and their wording in the build a bike pull-down makes it sound as if disc brakes get messed up in travel pretty often.

Brompton is just putting their toes in the water of disc brakes with the G Line.

Beat me to it, I was also hoping for discs. They may be more vulnerable when folded, but they sure improve the rim durability, stop in the wet better, better on long descents.

Zizzo has been smart. They entered the market just as Dahon's prices started to zoom. So I'm sure they are very value-oriented to keep that price advantage. I think most customers live more on the flats without long descents, so it depends on how much customers would value discs. I'd pay for reasonable added cost, but I also live in a hilly area that is wet in winter.

I'm happy to see they're keeping rim brakes. V brakes stop great, and are lighter and more robust than discs.

I would upgrade my Zizzo to one with disc brakes if it became available but I am also very happy with the performance of my linear pull brakes. I live in a fairly flat area and I can't imagine I will ever wear through the braking surface on the rims. If I did, replacement wheels from Zizzo are inexpensive.

"V brakes stop great" has caveats though, which is what Duragrouch is getting at:

• Got to keep them clean, or they'll eat the wheels
• When wet, they're VERY iffy for the first revolution of the wheels, and only fair after that. It can be a problem if you forget and then need to stop suddenly
• Overheating down hills can be an issue.

Remembering to clean the wheels from time to time is paramount. I don't remember to do this, myself, but I also don't put a ton of miles on my folder, so ...

Only if you have crap pads. Shimano and Kool Stop both have pads that work just fine in the wet. SwissStop might too,but I don't have experience with them.

Well, it's not like disc brakes are trouble free:

- they're usually noisier when wet
- if the rotor is knocked out of true by <1mm, it'll likely be rubbing
- they're heavier and take a stiffer frame and fork to support them

Lots of options out there, so everyone can make their choice.

I have had my Liberte now for about four years. I have changed a few things, particularly the tires. I went to BAs The only trouble I ever had was it did throw the chain off of chain wheel a couple of times. The first time it happened even though in had a plastic chain keeper to prevent it. That only served to complicate putting the chain back on as it necessitated a Philips screwdriver, which I did not have with me. It actually deformed that plastic piece. I never before had a bike come with on those and could not see the need for and ended up just not using one. I thought I would go the narrow-wide route if the problem persisted, but since it is so rare I never did.

The Liberte is a good bike and likely the best value out there. At least as far as I am aware. The Dahon MU, on sale, might top it. I do know the Boardwalk and Mariner model I had were not as nice to ride.

It does look like little has changed. They should add the Brompton block like on the Forte.

It doesn't have the reinforcement at the head tube that the Forté does, so it mightn't be safe.

I don't need to clean rims and pads frequently when dry. It's the wet days that immediately put a ton of grit on the rim sidewalls, and just eat at the rims with every stop. Cleaning at home, the pads will have bits of aluminum embedded in them, I pry them out with a knife tip, otherwise when dry, they will gall the rims.

While I have not yet tried, I believe others who say the salmon soft pads are great grip in the wet. But that doesn't change the grit issue.

Considering the use-case of the typical Liberte - short local trips - the decision to stick with rim brakes makes sense and helps keep the price down.

I put on an H&H block. It works.

:-o

I’d hate to see your knives, ya savage! ;-)

This particular knife, 3-1/2" paring knife, has been through the ringer. Where I used to volunteer and cook, someone (we think a wayward employee) tried to use it to jimmy the locked small-change cashbox, the tip was bent over 90 degrees. Fortunately, though forged, cheap steel (China circa 2001) so not very hard, I went to the shop and hammered it back into straightness and then stoned it. It's my all-purpose. My 8" cooking knife is German and I use it only for cooking. But really, those bits of aluminum in the rubber pads are small and not deep, even the thinnest stamped knive blade would hold up.

Sure is weird how that aluminum embeds, never saw this on previous bikes, but all those I used back east in flatland so the hard anodizing on the rims never wore through. My 20" folder, I'm not sure if the rims were anodized at all, certainly not the dark gray hard anodizing which is a surface of aluminum oxide just like sharpening stones of the same, so are tough. So these rims I think the surface is softer. Once I used some pads that looked new but discovered were old and hard so in a couple downhill blocks, picked up a lot of aluminum there, suddenly galled with the most unpleasance grinding sound, I limped home and needed emory wrapped around a file to remove the galling from the rims, rough finish like bits of aluminum had welded to the surface.

And folks wonder why I want discs.

They're offering 15% off for pre-ordering now:
https://zizzo.bike/collections/zizzo...g-bike-liberte

It's in stock now. Same link as above. 15% off sale still on. ($510)

I want one but can't really justify it. Doesn't seem like the wife will be riding a real bike this year.

It's now on "Black Friday Sale" for $650.
https://zizzo.bike/collections/zizzo...=shopify_email

I wish they would just quit all this messing around with prices. Just keep it reasonable and they will sell. Mark it up so that it can be marked down? We're not women buying dresses, so that's not going to work.

OMG, all this talk about the lack of disc brakes! I have ridden a bike with 40 lbs. of gear down mountains on the Blue Ridge Parkway when it was raining and never had problems, and that was with CALIPER brakes! Disc brakes are just a marketing tool to get you to spend more money on something you don't need, and boy howdy, it sure has worked.

I ride both rim and disc brakes and have no issues with either. Rim brakes offer lower cost, lighter weight, and simple setup, all real advantages. But hydraulic discs are on another level. The lever feel is feather-light, the stopping power is stronger in every weather condition, and they stay dialed in for far longer. I built a bike with hydraulic discs more than two years ago and haven’t had to adjust a thing since. The brakes are still as strong and predictable as day one, if not better now that they’re fully bedded in. Modulation isn’t a problem (stop typing!). Modern hydraulic systems are smooth, precise, and confidence‑inspiring.

Do I need disc brakes? No. Do I want them? Absolutely. Once you ride a good hydraulic disc setup, it’s hard to go back.

No white knuckles on this 18 hair-pin descent with disc hydraulics. Feather-light.

This is your brain rims on rim pads.

Yeah, it's 10 years of wear, but otherwise there's nothing wrong with those wheels to require replacing. And that's with staying out of the rain and grit, and regular pad cleaning, otherwise it would have taken much shorter time.

Where I used to ride in flatlands, no, rims and brakes would last forever.

In serious hills, frequently, discs are not just a marketing ploy, the rims last a lot longer, and riding in rain is not just good stopping, but the slotted discs are self-cleaning of grit. Rim pads and wet grit is like fingernails on a blackboard, awful sound, the sound of slow destruction.