spambait11

Careful what you ask for, or is it just because you want to carry a gun on your Merc?


It's all anyone ever really *knows* – their own system that is, their own situation in life, and it is always human nature to project that biased view on to the rest of society. Those who are able to hang out on forums and use the internet, at this point in time, are always the more fortunate ones. Some like to write bull**** to get a rise out of people because of middle/upper middle class boredom, while some actually believe what they write. You can't get too riled up because of opinions on a forum. Good thing about this forum is you can always leave it to ride your bike.

Speedo

My apologies. I simply pointed out the simplest possible counter example to your statement. You did use the term "area". Okay, how about Japan, an honest to goodness first-world (real world!) nation. Very strict gun control laws. It certainly qualifies as an "area where normal citizens are banned from carrying firearms".

Murders per 100,000.
United States 6.32
Japan 0.58

**** per 100,000.
United States 34.20
Japan 1.48

Serious Assault per 100,000.
United States 357.94
Japan 15.40

Robbery/Violent Theft per 100,000.
United States 169.02
Japan 2.71

Wow! I picked Japan off the top of my head. I knew that their crime rate was low, But I had no idea how low! I don't have them here, but I found that the "crime clearance rates" (convictions on crimes committed) in Japan are higher than in the United States. By either measure it doesn't look like criminals are acting with impunity there.

Also, please, please, please, no going on about how great our tax structure is in the United States. Not today. I'll be spending this afternoon filling out form F6251!

Speedo

Speedo

Oh. I'm sorry. I didn't think that form 6251 would be controversial!

Speedo

EvilV

LOL - strangely, it wasn't the tax form I was thinking of - but you knew that.

Good luck with the tax return anyway - not a jolly job, but console yourself with the thought that if you hadn't earned a lot of money, you wouldn't have had to pay the tax. Take it as an acknowledgement of your success.... (evilv ducks the flying pens and paper weight).

Wavshrdr

Even though this thread isn't 100% folder content, it has been interesting. As for Japan I've been there several times. The criminals do have guns but in general the cultural aspect of Japan is what I think makes a difference. Eastern and Western societies have a different take on what is proper and what isn't. I did notice that everyone I went in Japan, China, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand and others that they still respect their elders. If a child mouthed off to their parents they would regret it instantly. This isn't true in America or Europe.

I found the Japanese to be VERY courteous people UNTIL you made the mad dash to get on the subway train. That little granny I just passed walking up to the platform now seemed capable of running the 100m sprint in about 9 seconds and her cane became a nasty weapon. Almost everywhere else though the Japanese truly were very polite and most of the crime that I was aware of tended to be mob related. However these normally shy people would be seen just pulling over their cars or bikes and urinating on the side of the roads with no concern to which way they were pointed if you know what I mean.

While I am in general a patriot, I am not blinded by patriotism. The US did some really stupid moves. We accepted all the criminals of Cuba's prisons from Castro. Russia figured this out and let all the "Jews" that wanted to seek asylum in the US out of their prisons. In the city of LA, the police can't even ask someone they arrest if they are illegal aliens even if they are gang members and are pretty obviously illegal. This is what I see to be the biggest issue in the US, illegal immigration. Uncontrolled immigration or rather poorly planned immigration has already had a terrible effect on Europe. I am not anti-immigrant by a long shot but in favor or an intelligent policy with controlled immigration and thorough background checks.

No place is perfect in the world. I am just in favor of self-determination rather than letting the government decide what I can do and how much I should earn and what doctor I must go to. It is the classic risk/reward scenario. I'll take greater risk if I can have greater rewards. If I invest more of my time or money, I expect more in return. It is the same logic when buying a bike. I spend more money, I expect more for it. If I spend $2,000 on a Brommie, I do expect more from it than a $300 DT. If I ever hit the lottery I'll remember all my folder friends and you can do your own comparison.

DaFriMon

Reminds me of an old joke. "And to my nephew Robert, who I promised to remember in my will, 'Hi Robert!'"

rhm

When I bought my Strida, thoughts similar to these were not that far from my mind. I live in sub-rural NJ, but work in Manhattan, where there are dangers from disasters both natural and artificial, that I don't have to worry about at home. The problem I face is, if something happens while I'm in NYC, public transportation comes to a screeching halt, and I am stuck here. On 9/11/01, for example, the NJ transit trains were stopped for many hours, and --aside from all the existential ponderings inspired by that day's events-- I was faced with a very real problem of how to get home. A few weeks later, an airliner crashed near JFK international airport, and again the trains stopped running (as a precaution, based on security / paranoia concerns). It is really not that uncommon for unforseen events of one kind or another to cause the trains to stop running for a while. In these situations, I am stuck in Manhattan with few options, starting with: wait around Penn Station until the trains start running again. Not nice.

Now that I have my folding bike with me, I have many other options, and have exercised them on more than one occasion (but I have yet to ride all the way home!).

folder fanatic

See what I mean? Folding bikes offer more options in case of any emergency-whether involving just you or a whole community. I don't think they would be useful much more than a regular bike in a larger disaster like World War III.

CaptainSpalding

I work on the T.V. show "Jericho" which takes place in post-nuclear-apocolyptic Kansas. At the start of each show there is a bit of Morse code on the sound track. Supposedly it's different each week, and I heard there was a survivalist message board where the morse was being translated. While I don't consider myself to be a survialist, I thought it might be fun to check out the translation of the Morse. The message board I found is the Zombie Squad forum. There they discuss all aspects of survivalism against the light-hearted euphamistic backdrop of zombies rising from the grave. Spend five minutes there. You'll die laughing! Folding bikes have even made it into a few discussions there. Here's one.

If you check out the site, you'll need to know the meanings of some acronyms:
PAW: post apocolyptic wasteland
TEOTWAWKI: the end of the world as we know it
SHTF: sh-t hits the fan
BOB: bug-out bag (a bag of essentials packed and ready to go the minute the zombies rise up.)
BOL: bug-out-location (a predesignated place you go when the presence of zombies makes bugging-in at home unwise.)
BIL: bug-in-location (usually but not always your home, a place, fortified with supplies, where you can hunker down and wait out the zombie onslaught, as strategy dictates.)
GHB: get home bag (less comprehensive than the BOB, a smaller bag carried in the car or kept at work, with just enough gear to get you home to your BIL.)
BIB: bug-in bag (see GHB)
FAK or IFAK: first aid kit or individual first aid kit.
There are more, but these are the basics.

Like I said, I'm no survivalist, but I have become a little more conscious of the ever-present zombie threat. As a measure of earthquake preparedness I've always had a stash of food and water, enough for a couple of weeks. Now my wife and I have get-home bags in our vehicles, lest an emergency arises and circumstances dictate that we must abandon our vehicles and walk home. We also have pre-designated meeting places out of the city at 4 points of the compass. With all that I'm still a lightweight. I fall way short of the guys with their BOL in Montana or wherever, where they've got a couple of sea containers buried and filled with food, water, and weapons.

Some comments on the many aspects of this thread:

Folder as a bug-out vehicle:
The load capacity of a folder may limit its practicality as a bug-out vehicle. 200-225 lbs. is a typical load limit for a folder. I'm 200 lbs. undressed, so that doesn't leave much headroom for food, water and gear. I know that Dahon doesn't recommend jumping or curb-hopping, etc.. Those maneuvers might come in handy in the PAW. But, a folder at the workplace along with a GHB might be handy for getting back to your BIL, where you could have your BOB and a more robust bike waiting and poised for your bug-out. Even then, a bike for bugging out only makes sense if you're travelling alone. Those of us with spouse and kids might want to consider other options.

Best gun for use on a folder:
12 gauge shotgun with a folding stock, of course. Especially well suited for dispatching zombies.

Disaters cementing otherwise distant people, in Britain or elsewhere:
Bad people, wherever they live, will never cooperate.
Good people will cooperate in bad circumstances, until there aren't enough resources to go around even with cooperative mechanisms like rationing or other planned dispersal. Then they will compete for whatever resources there are.

Dahon Doom:
It should be a folder, naturally, but reinforced to handle the rigors of the PAW. Plenty of brazons for gear.
Should come with that blue helmet that U.N. peacekeepers wear.




Brits:
As far as our two nations go, our best friends in the world. We need to treat them better.


On censoring threads:
If there's severe name calling, the mod should lock or delete the thread. On forums where a total lack of civility is tolerated, slowly the forum becomes about bashing, and the topic is secondary. That's always a shame, IMHO, because the flow of topical information ceases. Reasonable people, who not uncoincidentally usually have the most to offer, find somewhere else to post. Now that I've posted to this thread, my vote is of course that it not be locked or deleted. One can always unsubsribe to a thread, no?

folder fanatic

Thank you for your imput, Captain Spalding. I wish my father was here to give his opinion on the survivalist movement. But I think that I will be able to speak for him. He lived in many parts of rural America and other parts of the world in both the military and civilian capacity. He knew how to survive in various terrains and climates. He was also a realist. He knew how fast the s**t could hit the fan. He told me that guns and supplies could be taken away from someone who cannot stomack blowing away another human being. He did not believe in guns as self defense for the average person (including his daughters). He believe in stealth, calling attention away from oneself, and camoflage type of defense as the best way to deal with ever changing situations. The folding bike(s) is one way. And other things he taught me is another. Since this is a folding bike forum, I simply wish to declare how my bikes make me feel more secure now that my father is no longer here. As for all those supplies that the survivalists recommend to carry on your person, I don't think my father would approve of this. He always believe in carrying as lilttle as you can without sacrificing your abilty to keep you alive during a crisis. A bike (even a folding one) could carry it's weight in supplies like a mechanical pack mule if needed.

bookishboy

Thanks for pointing out that website!

I'm always making zombie jokes, playing zombie-themed videogames, etc. I have a dream someday of building an underground house (the idea just makes me smile) and when my girlfriend tries to ask me why I'd want an underground house, it's usually easier just to say that "well, it'd be remarkably zombie-resistant." Aside: NEVER fool yourself into thinking that a structure is zombie-*proof*! So anyway, great girlfriend that she is, she bought me the Zombie Survival Guide and World War Z as Christmas presents. These two awesome books are by Max Brooks (coincidentally related to Mel Brooks). I honestly feel like I've met my twin brother or something, the amount of detail this guy went into.

The Zombie Survival Guide is hilariously funny, because the book takes itself so seriously. It literally reads like one of those government publications that you'd have to order from Pueblo, Colorado on how to build a bomb shelter or something.

I agree that a folding bike would make a great zombie survival vehicle, particularly in a group situation. Care should be taken before the zombie armageddon to be sure that there are enough bikes for each member of the group, and all bikes of the same brand/model (to improve chances of field repairs/interchangeable parts). One of the often-overlooked advantages of folding bikes in this instance would be the re-sizing ability (many, not all feature this) so that the same bike could be switched back and forth easily between many different riders. It would also improve the trade value of the bike in the event that you needed to barter it for food/weapons/supplies.

Fear&Trembling

@CaptainSpalding - long time no hear. Glad to see you back!

CaptainSpalding

I bet your Dad had a lot of training. I think that the more training you have, the less you need to rely on gear. I don't have a lot of survival training. I never did an outward bound course. Heck, I wasn't even a boy scout. So I rely on gear. I have a little first aid kit, long undies, a rain poncho, a nice pair of broken in boots, some wool socks, a couple of bricks of lifeboat rations, and some water. A little AM/FM radio, a leatherman tool, and a lighter finish off the kit. It's not much to carry, and it's plenty to get me home from wherever I might be in the city. And it certainly wouldn't tax a folder.

If I were to leave town though, I'd need to carry a lot more food and water, and shelter, in the form of tent and sleeping bag, etc. Water is the big deal. It weighs the most. (except for ammo, if you're packing. ) When you say a bike can carry it's own weight in supplies - well, in real terms that's not very much. Although folders aren't generally considered light, they don't weigh that much. To put a finer point on it, my bike weighs less than 3 gallons of water. I'm not saying that a bike can't carry a lot of gear. I'm saying that some bikes are better suited to it than others. Maybe I should take a survival course so I won't have to rely on all that gear!

Thanks! It's nice to be back.

folder fanatic

I did forget to mention that if you injured your leg and have difficulty in walking, the bike could become a wheeled walker or crutches to assist you. I think that your list of things to have in an emergency is well thought out and quite light. The only thing that you need to concentrate now is how to survive in the Southern California urban and rural regions. That is a real challange in itself!

CaptainSpalding

Good point about using the bike as a walker if injured. Re: surviving in the urban jungle: preparedness is the difference between merely surviving and thriving.

Cheers!